Author Topic: "If You Don't Ride - You Don't Know!"  (Read 7156 times)

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Offline Demon67

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Re: "If You Don't Ride - You Don't Know!"
« Reply #50 on: March 24, 2008, 05:22:38 AM »
Neil how many miles do you put on in a year? The reason I ask is because my insurance is reasonably cheap 400 or so a year.
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Offline edbikerii

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Re: "If You Don't Ride - You Don't Know!"
« Reply #51 on: March 24, 2008, 08:40:36 AM »
After our 200 mile day, my female companion commented that the aftermarket seat on the Harley was more plush than the stock (but recovered) seat on the CB550.  She also complained about how the passenger floorboards on the Harley are in the wrong place and that the chrome rails surrounding the hard luggage kept poking into her legs, giving her bruises after 200 miles.

She made a point of mentioning that when we hit a rough patch of road on the Harley in the desert, she felt like the whole thing was just falling apart.  She said that she had never been that frightened on a motorcycle with me before.  I didn't tell her, but I thought that the horrible suspension was going to pitch us into the cacti at that point too.  Don't go grabbing the front brake when you need to slow down quickly, because the nose-dive will cause the front to wash out, even with the ABS.

I prefer to ride, and to tour 2-up, on the CB550 because it is a much more pleasant experience overall.  Handling is better.  Braking is better.  Acceleration is better.  Ergonomics are better.  Sure the CB550 has a lot of less expensive painted (not chromed) stamped or rolled steel parts like footpegs and other brackets, but they work properly, unlike many of the pretty pieces on the Harley.  Also, the stamped and rolled parts are lighter, making the CB550 lighter and therefore easier to ride.  Best of all, the cheaper, lighter parts, make the CB550 much more affordable!

I'm sure somebody out there will say, "well, what if you put 1000 miles a day on it".  Sorry, but realistically, I don't do 1000 mile tours very often.  Chances are that not many people out there do.  100 to 200 miles days are the norm for me.  Besides, after one 200 mile day on the Harley, I cannot see any genuine reason why the Harley would be better for touring.  The last time I had a 500 mile day of two-up touring was several years ago, and it was just fine on my CB550.

I find that there is a great misconception that touring bikes should be heavy monsters.  I don't see the benefit of a heavy motorcycle for touring.  The one compelling argument I've heard was that a heavy bike might feel safer in strong sidewinds.  In almost every other circumstance, a lighter, more nimble bike is superior.

One thing I have to say about the Harley is that even though many of the parts are all wrong ergonomically, they tend to be solid chunks of cast metal, and the chrome quality is good.  The floorboards probably weigh 20 lbs each, and they look like chrome works of art, but they are the most uncomfortable, poorly-located, poorly-designed pieces of "art" I've ever had the misfortune to ride with.

I was meaning to ask edbikerini, if he tours 2 up on his 550. I do know people that have done this.. but if he does a lot of that, I bet his comparison to the other bike would differ..
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1986 GL1200I - SOLD
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Offline 754

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Re: "If You Don't Ride - You Don't Know!"
« Reply #52 on: March 24, 2008, 09:43:36 AM »
Well it certainly sounds like your 550 does what you need it to do. A lot of people would find it a bit small for 2up, espescially in mountains.

I rode a couple E-Glides and found them pretty mushy suspension wise, but I suspect that some like them that way or tighten suspension up for harder riding. I often wonder how the bigger Goldwings feel, the only one I rode was an early one back in a 77. I guess it depends what kind of ride you desire.

After riding a Beemer R100RT for a while, I always wondered why GL's and E-Glides had to have so much stuff and such big seats to be comfy.. the Beemer could do 800 miles a day or more without any discomfort and it did not have a real thick seat.

I think it depends a lot if you ride alone or with others, by yourself you would not notice  how quick the other bikes were, as you would trying to keep up to a group..
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Offline TwoTired

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Re: "If You Don't Ride - You Don't Know!"
« Reply #53 on: March 24, 2008, 10:08:17 AM »
I frequently ride two up on my 550s.  Smaller displacement bikes require more gear changes.  If you just want to twist throttle for acceleration, then no small displacement bike is going to satisfy you.  The 550 is plenty if you take the time to learn what gear selection is all about, in addition to throttle position, to keep the engine in a power band adequate for the task at hand.

Further, modded bikes are often jetted too rich as that hides performance problems in certain throttle positions.  In higher elevations (mountains), they become even more rich and lose power as they ascend.  So do bigger displacement engines, unless they run closed loop fuel metering.  But, it is still a matter of percentages.

Lastly, not everyone rides to race other bikes.  Lot's of enjoyable mountain scenery can go by un-noticed, when your concentration is focused on keeping your front wheel out front of others.  It is a matter of what your thrill is all about.

My opinion, it's pretty irresponsible to race when 2up riding, as you are risking injury to another person, as well as your own.  The shifting weight as the passenger "sight-sees" can take you off the carving line right quick.

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Offline edbikerii

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Re: "If You Don't Ride - You Don't Know!"
« Reply #54 on: March 24, 2008, 10:42:12 AM »
Yeah, I've found that the more "comfy" the seat looks and feels on first impression, the worse it feels after a few hours.  My Yamaha XJ600S had a sporty, thin-looking seat, but it was angled properly, the handlebar was situated comfortably, and the stock seat padding was of dense closed-cell foam, so I found I could ride it all day with just a short 5-10 minute break every couple of hours to fill the tank and walk around a bit.  Corbin seats can be had with backrests for touring.

I occasionally ride my buddy's late '80s GoldWing.  I don't know if it is a 1200 or a 1500 or what.  It is a nice ride.  I feel that it is somewhat cumbersome and top-heavy, especially with the trunk loaded.  It sure doesn't nose-dive like that Road King, though.  Also, it is much more comfortable than the Road King in terms of seating position and ergonomics.

I definitely prefer middle-weight bikes for their balance of agility, performance and comfort.  BTW, I'm 6'1" and ~190lbs., with a relatively athletic build.  Upper body strength is not a concern.

Well it certainly sounds like your 550 does what you need it to do. A lot of people would find it a bit small for 2up, espescially in mountains.

I rode a couple E-Glides and found them pretty mushy suspension wise, but I suspect that some like them that way or tighten suspension up for harder riding. I often wonder how the bigger Goldwings feel, the only one I rode was an early one back in a 77. I guess it depends what kind of ride you desire.

After riding a Beemer R100RT for a while, I always wondered why GL's and E-Glides had to have so much stuff and such big seats to be comfy.. the Beemer could do 800 miles a day or more without any discomfort and it did not have a real thick seat.

I think it depends a lot if you ride alone or with others, by yourself you would not notice  how quick the other bikes were, as you would trying to keep up to a group..
SOHC4 #289
1977 CB550K - SOLD
1997 YAMAHA XJ600S - SOLD
1986 GL1200I - SOLD
2004 BMW R1150R

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Offline edbikerii

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Re: "If You Don't Ride - You Don't Know!"
« Reply #55 on: March 24, 2008, 11:01:57 AM »
BTW, that Road King I rented was Fuel Injected, and had aftermarket pipes installed by the dealer.  I may be wrong, but I don't think there are many (if any) bikes that are actually oxygen sensor driven yet.  I'm assuming that the bike was probably running a little lean.

Further, modded bikes are often jetted too rich as that hides performance problems in certain throttle positions.  In higher elevations (mountains), they become even more rich and lose power as they ascend.  So do bigger displacement engines, unless they run closed loop fuel metering.  But, it is still a matter of percentages.

Personally, I think it is pretty dumb to try to race a CB550 anywhere but on a "vintage racing day" at the track.  30+ year old technology is not even remotely competitive with modern sportbikes.  Yes, I have pod filters and a MAC exhaust on my CB550, and I've re-jetted as accurately as a person can without a dyno and an exhaust sniffer, but I don't kid myself.  Those modifications do improve the power slightly, but I know better than to kid myself into thinking I'm on a competitive modern sportbike.

Most importantly, I wasn't racing in the desert on unfamiliar roads hoping to drag knees.  I was on a leisurely ride with a beautiful lady, enjoying the sights, smells, desert silence, etc.

While we were out there, there were lots of guys on sportbikes speeding around.  As we approached Lake Mead, several emergency vehicles raced out the other way with sirens and lights blaring.  I couldn't help getting a little sick feeling that one of the kids we talked to out there had wiped out and maimed himself.  I said a little prayer for him.

Quote
Lastly, not everyone rides to race other bikes.  Lot's of enjoyable mountain scenery can go by un-noticed, when your concentration is focused on keeping your front wheel out front of others.  It is a matter of what your thrill is all about.

My opinion, it's pretty irresponsible to race when 2up riding, as you are risking injury to another person, as well as your own.  The shifting weight as the passenger "sight-sees" can take you off the carving line right quick.
SOHC4 #289
1977 CB550K - SOLD
1997 YAMAHA XJ600S - SOLD
1986 GL1200I - SOLD
2004 BMW R1150R

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eldar

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Re: "If You Don't Ride - You Don't Know!"
« Reply #56 on: March 24, 2008, 11:48:23 AM »
Is anyone REALLY qualified to state an opinion? There are loads of bikes out there, each with its own quirks, each with its own mods. Ed, the hd may have just not suited you. Is it entirely possible that a different harley with mods may have suited you? Sure it is. You cannot blanket everyone of them. Hell your beloved 550 would not impress me, but then I have found what I like. Even the 76 and earlier 750s may not suit me. Yet they sure suit others around here.

point is that a bike that you may not like could become a completely different machine with simple mods.

In the end, it all comes down to the person riding the bike. If they are a douche, no bike in the world will make them better. If they are a good person, then a heap a crap makes no difference.

Offline mystic_1

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Re: "If You Don't Ride - You Don't Know!"
« Reply #57 on: March 24, 2008, 01:34:35 PM »
In the end, it all comes down to the person riding the bike. If they are a douche, no bike in the world will make them better. If they are a good person, then a heap a crap makes no difference.


+1

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Offline edbikerii

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Re: "If You Don't Ride - You Don't Know!"
« Reply #58 on: March 24, 2008, 02:22:35 PM »
Just for the record, before I indicated my preference for middle-weight bikes, I pointed out a bunch of serious issues with the HD Road King.

These issues are not merely preferences.  Nose-diving on braking, washing out the front wheel (even with ABS) on braking, dramatically losing stability on slightly rough road surfaces, poor handling, etc., are not simple preferences, these are safety issues.

It doesn't matter if you are just out for a cruise, or whether you are racing the thing, if it nose-dives when you hit the brakes, you are in for an unhappy stopping experience in an emergency.

In addition, I listed a whole host of other shortcomings with the HD Road King that are part of the whole "mystique", including the ridiculous shaking engine, the lack of tachometer on a $20,000 bike, turn signals that require you to use your right hand, which is usually either on the brake or the throttle whenever you wish to turn on the signal, poorly designed heel-toe shifter that clunks into gear like an 18-wheeler, nearly impossible to find neutral, poor ergonomics, etc., etc.
SOHC4 #289
1977 CB550K - SOLD
1997 YAMAHA XJ600S - SOLD
1986 GL1200I - SOLD
2004 BMW R1150R

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Offline DammitDan

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Re: "If You Don't Ride - You Don't Know!"
« Reply #59 on: March 24, 2008, 05:15:52 PM »
Just for the record, before I indicated my preference for middle-weight bikes, I pointed out a bunch of serious issues with the HD Road King.

These issues are not merely preferences.  Nose-diving on braking, washing out the front wheel (even with ABS) on braking, dramatically losing stability on slightly rough road surfaces, poor handling, etc., are not simple preferences, these are safety issues.

It doesn't matter if you are just out for a cruise, or whether you are racing the thing, if it nose-dives when you hit the brakes, you are in for an unhappy stopping experience in an emergency.

In addition, I listed a whole host of other shortcomings with the HD Road King that are part of the whole "mystique", including the ridiculous shaking engine, the lack of tachometer on a $20,000 bike, turn signals that require you to use your right hand, which is usually either on the brake or the throttle whenever you wish to turn on the signal, poorly designed heel-toe shifter that clunks into gear like an 18-wheeler, nearly impossible to find neutral, poor ergonomics, etc., etc.

Add to all this the fact that it's a top-heavy bike of close to 750lbs dry (not counting luggage, riders, gas, etc. which would put it closer to 1000 lbs)

I hate to think of trying to recover from an emergency countersteer to avoid an obstacle on a Road King...

I suppose the guy singing about a Road King should really be saying, "If you DO Ride, you should know better!"
« Last Edit: March 24, 2008, 05:17:24 PM by DammitDan »
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Offline Joel

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Re: "If You Don't Ride - You Don't Know!"
« Reply #60 on: March 24, 2008, 07:26:11 PM »
It took me at least 30 seconds before I realized it wasn't supposed to be funny. :o ;D

Haha!  I watched the whole thing thinking it was a parody. :P

Offline firecracker

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Re: "If You Don't Ride - You Don't Know!"
« Reply #61 on: March 25, 2008, 09:27:53 AM »
Y'all are a bunch of Communist P*ssies if you don't LOVE American Harley's.  Saying there's something wrong with a Harley is like saying there's something wrong with our President.

 ;D

</sarcasm off>

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Offline S-Dog

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Re: "If You Don't Ride - You Don't Know!"
« Reply #62 on: March 25, 2008, 09:29:41 AM »
Its a fun song... not the best song.  I have my old CB750 and just picked up a Shadow 1100 (V-Twin *GASP*).  I like my Hondas and have driven an E-Glide during my Vegas vacation to cement that I don't want a Harley. Its not that I didnt like the Harley.  It was just mediocre and waay to top heavy for me.  I couldn't justify the cost.

If I want to cruise in excess Ill go and pick up a 97-03 Valkyrie.  So smooth you can balance a nickel on end on the valve cover while starting, idling, and revving. :o :o :o yet you can pop it in 5th gear and roll up from 25mph with no bogging or clunking.
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Offline 754

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Re: "If You Don't Ride - You Don't Know!"
« Reply #63 on: March 25, 2008, 09:42:47 AM »
Are you guys sure you are not mixing up ,greater overall weight & rake &trail that make it corner differentl y...with high center of gravity?
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My next bike will be a ..ANFOB.....

It's All part of the ADVENTURE...

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Lost quite a few CB 750's along the way

Offline Joel

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Re: "If You Don't Ride - You Don't Know!"
« Reply #64 on: March 25, 2008, 10:45:37 AM »
I just don't like the look of most, if not all, of the Harleys I've seen.  Too much chrome and ornamentation for my tastes.  I like the newer Buell Lightnings but they're out of my price range for nwo.

Offline DammitDan

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Re: "If You Don't Ride - You Don't Know!"
« Reply #65 on: March 25, 2008, 10:54:00 AM »
Well then you're in luck... The value of a Buell drops like a rock in a year or two  ::)

They're shaped a bit too much like a bullfrog for my tastes though  ;D

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Offline Joel

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Re: "If You Don't Ride - You Don't Know!"
« Reply #66 on: March 25, 2008, 11:05:14 AM »
Well then you're in luck... The value of a Buell drops like a rock in a year or two  ::)

They're shaped a bit too much like a bullfrog for my tastes though  ;D

The rock hasn't fallen far enough just yet though.  :)  Ribbit...

Offline S-Dog

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Re: "If You Don't Ride - You Don't Know!"
« Reply #67 on: March 25, 2008, 11:55:04 AM »
Are you guys sure you are not mixing up ,greater overall weight & rake &trail that make it corner differentl y...with high center of gravity?

Nope.  I have ridden big bikes before.  The E-Glide is waaaaay top heavy to me.  Im only 5'10" but a stout 270#.  Compare that to my Dad's Valk or a Goldwing.  No contest.
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Offline Jonesy

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Re: "If You Don't Ride - You Don't Know!"
« Reply #68 on: March 25, 2008, 02:36:15 PM »
My only thought was, If the guy's so into riding and being among those "In the know", why didn't he ride to work? (It was a nice day, after all...)

I agree... the kind bike you ride doesn't change the kind of person you are.

"Every time I start thinking the world is all bad, then I start seeing people out there having a good time on motorcycles; it makes me take another look." -Steve McQueen

Offline Gregorymoto

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Re: "If You Don't Ride - You Don't Know!"
« Reply #69 on: March 25, 2008, 03:38:53 PM »
I do have to say this, the Road King is a fine way to spend 8hrs on the road. It is not a town bike at all it is for the open road , and is good in the sweeping corners. I do like the Valk as well havent spent more than 30min riding one but was impressed.
Yep, i have issues with this sort of stuff.

Offline ekim98

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Re: "If You Don't Ride - You Don't Know!"
« Reply #70 on: March 25, 2008, 06:07:49 PM »
Y'all are a bunch of Communist P*ssies if you don't LOVE American Harley's.  Saying there's something wrong with a Harley is like saying there's something wrong with our President.
 ;D
</sarcasm off>

At least we can vote the president out if we want, but you can't change a harley or their riders, we're just stuck with the worst of both.  :(

sarcasm on!!!
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Offline 754

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Re: "If You Don't Ride - You Don't Know!"
« Reply #71 on: March 25, 2008, 08:04:40 PM »
I dont like the high center of gravity on a stock CB750, so I changed mine..

now I can move the bike around one handed with my hand on the middle of the triple tree..
Maker of the WELDLESS 750 Frame Kit
dodogas99@gmail.com
Kelowna B.C.       Canada

My next bike will be a ..ANFOB.....

It's All part of the ADVENTURE...

73 836cc.. Green, had it for 3 decades!!
Lost quite a few CB 750's along the way

Offline Joel

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Re: "If You Don't Ride - You Don't Know!"
« Reply #72 on: March 26, 2008, 06:30:38 AM »
I dont like the high center of gravity on a stock CB750, so I changed mine..

now I can move the bike around one handed with my hand on the middle of the triple tree..

What did you change?

Offline 754

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Re: "If You Don't Ride - You Don't Know!"
« Reply #73 on: March 26, 2008, 08:23:31 AM »
I lowered it, a lot

No rear shocks, which if it dud have would lift it a few more inches (3ish).

High exhaust,  headpipe from a turbo, then we built the  rest.
Lets you cut off the sidestand mount and really get down low.
Maker of the WELDLESS 750 Frame Kit
dodogas99@gmail.com
Kelowna B.C.       Canada

My next bike will be a ..ANFOB.....

It's All part of the ADVENTURE...

73 836cc.. Green, had it for 3 decades!!
Lost quite a few CB 750's along the way

Offline medic09

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Re: "If You Don't Ride - You Don't Know!"
« Reply #74 on: March 26, 2008, 10:49:13 AM »
At first I thought it was a parody, like that movie (what's the name?) about the three guys who ride their Harleys to Madrid, NM (just down the road from here).  Then I thought it must be a Harley ad.  Either way, it is pitiful and pretentious, and the music was the same.
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