Topic: Coils. I know it has been answered but I am still lost.

[cbass*gxc]

#$%* Tom that needs to be put in the FAQ's!   I followed that step by step and here are my findings.

1.  Check reading was around 9
2.  Check  Each one was between 3-5
3.  This I do not know if I did correctly but I didnt see any sparks.  It didnt seem to do anything when I opened and closed them.
4.  Check Voltage to the coils was right on.
5.  Check  Brought my coils inside in a dark room with the battery and was getting sparks between each wire.
6.  Check Wires from coils to points are good.
7.  Ok I did this test like 15 times!  When crank was turned so the 1&4 F mark was lined up the reading was .013 on DCV 2 and the 2&3 was the same.  It didnt seem to make much of a difference when they were opened an d closed.  The bike had been wrecked on the right side so I am wondering if the condensers may be bad.

As far as the condensers I think I did it right.  I hooked the positive to the battery and the ground to the bike and it did drop to .5v within a few seconds.

So from what you guys have said it sounds as though my condensers are bad.  I am guessing that it may have been caused by the wreck.

I also think I figured out why my starter isnt working.  I hooked the 2 leads up to my battery and did not get a clicking sound like it says in the repair manual so I am guessing that is why my starter is not working.  I am going to see

[andy750]

Its likely your starter relay (under the left-hand side cover where the negative battery terminal and postitive battery terminal are held by 10mm nuts. Mine went bad on my K2 i.e. no click. Replaced it and was good to go. Check your connections there first!!

Good luck
Andy

[cbass*gxc]

Well talked to the guy that I got my bike from and he has a whole wire harness for a 550 sitting in his garage so I am going over to pick up the starter magnet from him and see if I can get the starter working.

Its likely your starter relay (under the left-hand side cover where the negative battery terminal and postitive battery terminal are held by 10mm nuts. Mine went bad on my K2 i.e. no click. Replaced it and was good to go. Check your connections there first!!

Good luck
Andy

Ya that is what I did and it didnt click.  So we will see what the other one brings.

[cbass*gxc]

So I got the other relay and the starter now works but my battery died.  I am going to get a charger this evening and hook it up and see how it works. 

[tomswift]

When I went through your responses to my post, I hit #5 and stopped... why did you have to go into a dark room to see a spark?... man, I can see a spark from Honda coils even in direct sunlight (well, maybe on a dirty plug)

I just want to make sure you know the electrical path from the spark plug wires is to the metal support of the coils... the part that is SUPPOSED to be well grounded on your frame. So the test follows my instructions if the coils are still installed. If removed, then GROUND THE COILS AT THE MOUNTING POINT, connect same ground to the sparkplug or just hold the wire without cap near the frame/ground (within 1/2 in). As you open/close the primary circuit (black-to-green/yellow wires) you should cause a spark that jumps from BOTH spark wires to the ground.

All this requires a lot of jumpers, but radioshack sells a bag of 'em for $10 or so...I always keep a few around.

Next...when testing the condensor... you made it sound like the condensor held the voltage for a few seconds... that is about what I get with a new one... remember, points open/close in fractions of a sec... so having a 3-4 second time constant is no prob. When one goes bad, it goes from 12V to 0.5V in one second. A little difficult to see with digital multimeters, easier with old cheap ones. Again, lots of little jumpers to hold the wires helps.

You just about have your PHd in Kettering Ignitions, m'boy...just keep plugging along. TS99

Ps...I keep looking back at your posts...and seeing you mention repeatedly that the bike was wrecked on the right... you sure some wire didn't get pinched in the damage? Those little points grounder wires can be cut and you read 0.13V just from a local FM tower lighting up your world hehe  How about using a separate/new wire leading up to the coils?

[TwoTired]

I just want to make sure you know the electrical path from the spark plug wires is to the metal support of the coils... the part that is SUPPOSED to be well grounded on your frame. So the test follows my instructions if the coils are still installed. If removed, then GROUND THE COILS AT THE MOUNTING POINT, connect same ground to the sparkplug or just hold the wire without cap near the frame/ground (within 1/2 in). As you open/close the primary circuit (black-to-green/yellow wires) you should cause a spark that jumps from BOTH spark wires to the ground.

The Honda SOHC4 coils DO NOT need to be grounded.  Ground is only used for the coil output to connect the spark plug bases together.  If you place the ignition lead ends close enough together, they will spark to each other dangling in free air, far away from any ground.  Apply 12 V across the primary, then remove it, and the secondary will spark when the collapsing filed develops enough voltage make plasma between the output wires.

Cheers,

[HondaMan]

Alright here are the pics of the points.  The crank is turned so they are on the F mark.  I see that they are not quite right so I am going to adjust them a bit.

1&4

Thanks for the pix. At first glance, I would say this, if what I'm seeing is correct: are both points open at once in this picture? This can never be on these bikes, unless the points are significantly misadjusted... 

When the 1-4 "F" timing mark appears in the window, continue turning the crank forward until you can see the spring post in the window, and check the 1-4 gap. It should be .012" to .016", no more. Then, turn the crank until the 2-3 "F" mark appears, then continue until you can see that spring post appear, and check the 2-3 gap (same gap).

It appears, at least in this photo, that the 2-3 gap is almost twice normal size...unless it's just me....

If you suspect the condensors are shorted, you can disconnect them and run without for a little while. It will run ratty, but it will run without them.

[cbass*gxc]

Well I got everything tested like you said Tom and i was getting spark between the 2 plug wires on both sides by connecting my battery to the leads and then taking them apart.  The only thing that I am not getting is when I open and close the points I dont get any spark.  I am going to do some more work this weekend when I have some more time.  I am jsut happy I got the starter working.  It has raised my spirits just a bit.

As far as the condensers go it was going from a higher voltage to .04 in just a few seconds.  That is why I thought they were bad.  Now that I have spark and my starter works I am feeling a little better. 

I will try using different wires from the points to coils this weekend.

Hondaman - Yes the 2&3 were adjust wrong.  I did go back and readjust them because I noticed that as well.  Now they open and close separately but I did not have a gap tester but am picking one up tomorrow so I can get the right size.  I will recheck and see what the gap is set to once I get the tester and let you know what I find out.

Thanks guys for all the help.  Hopefully with all the questions I asked it will not only help me out but anyone else that is having these problems and is not as electronically literate. 

[mystic_1]

In a pinch you can use a matchbook cover as a feeler guage to get you in the ballpark.



mystic_1

[cbass*gxc]

Ok so I got the starter working and it seems to work great except for a low battery but when I crank the starter and have the 2&3 or 1&4 plug wires w/ no caps about 1/8" apart I get no spark.  I hooked the battery straight to them and get spark when power is removed but not when hooked to the points.  I have tested that all wires from points to coils are not broken or cut and they are good.  I tested the 2 leads (yellow/blue) from points and got exactly opposite from what Lloyd said I should get.  With the MM set to 20 DCV I hooked one lead to the blue/yellow and the other to ground and got 10.43 blue and 10.24 yellow with the points closed and .11 on both with them open.  What may be the cause of this?

[BSA_Mikael]

I had some funny problems with my electrical system too, turns out many of them origin from modifications by earlier owners and probably replaced wire harnesses that came from different years and models. (type 550 contra 500 and different years) In the end, unfortunately I beleive you have to be either a vehicle electrician and/or use a mulimeter and be very interested to measure yourself to what is right and what is wrong on those project bikes. I would love to fins an unscrewed one, but so far they all have been twisted by amateurs (like me) 

TwoTired gave a couple of good advices, make sure all contact surfaces are clean, and that you have a sound earth connection. Then use the wiring diagram and check everything in an orderly fashion, checking each component either by interchanging it with a component you know work, or checking it by specifications and directions provided in manuals.. Lots of work, and not the funniest job either in my opinion, but the only way..

[cbass*gxc]

Ya I have tested every piece of the ignition system with a MM, 12v battery, and a test light over the last week and it all seems to be working fine.  The only piece I do not know if I am testing right is the whole points assembly.

[cbass*gxc]

Ya so I feel like a million bucks!  I got to playing again and hooked the 12v light up to the yellow/blue and the ground and hit the starter button and holy #$%* the light starts flashing.  So the only other thing I could think it may be was the black/white wires coming from the switch housing.  So I started testing them and everything checked out.  Then I decided to try turning the off/run/off switch and starting it and what do you know the switch was turn to the top off position and I got spark.  So this whole freaking time thats what the problem was.  Well at least I have done all the electrical testing 100 times over and know that it is all in good working order. 

So to everyone that has helped with this process thanks for all the great insight into the realm of honda electrics.  Now I just have to wait until I get my new stainless allen bolts to put the engine covers back on and I will be ready to try and get this beast started.

[mystic_1]

Heh, OK sounds like your key switch is wired wrong then, the positions should be OFF, RUN, and PARK which only powers the taillight.  If you have to turn the switch two clicks from OFF to get spark something's been rewired wrong.

Glad you got it sorted.  Look on the bright side, you're now very familiar with all the components and testing procedures, and you'll be well equipped to solve any ignition problems in the future.

Best of luck with the rest.

mystic_1

[cbass*gxc]

Thanks mystic.  It is a huge chip off the shoulder.  It is actually the right hand control switch.  The one that has off/run/off.  I guess I can keep it that way and it will be my ghetto anti theft device. 

[cbass*gxc]

Never mind I figured it out.