Topic: Andys CB810 K2 -updated 29 Oct: new harness routing questions

[Jerry Rxman Griffin aka MuthaF'er]

I have the Dyna III from the 80's and the Dyna2000 with 137 miles. My Dyna2000 took a #$%* on circuit 2 & 3. I am trying to be patient while Dyna sends a replacement. Not sure what happened but it worked when I loaded it on the trailer for the 1400 mile transport and didn't work when unloaded. Anyway....

On to the DynaIII. I just checked my timing etc on it yesterday on the other bike. I did their static firing test and found both modules are firing. I got 2 alligator clip leads. Attached one to a ground on an automotive type bulb (1005 used in harley running lights or on autos) and the other to the + wire on the bulb. Attached one wire to a ground and the other wire to the coil input. ie blue wire then switched to the other coil yellow wire. Turned on the key and rotated the engine until the trigger reached/passed the magnet. Light comes on. Did this for the other coil lead rotating again. Same. Both modules are firing. Excellent way to check the firing of the modules but also the timing.

The Dyna2000 comes with a built in trigger light which makes it handy. I got the light to fire up on both (output from the trigger to the controller from the module but no output from the controller to 2 & 3. Little different methodology but same check.   

[andy750]

Thanks Jerry for the further details. Going to check the DynaS as well. Much appreciated.

cheers
Andy

[andy750]

Ok had some time to work on the K2 today and here is the latest:

1. New OEM coils
2. New DENSO spark plugs
3. Same Dyna S with one wire going to black/white 4-way connector

Checked all wiring, checked for spark at plugs (yes on 2+3).

Still same issue as with old set of coils (so its not the coils)  --> 2+3 not firing.

checked the wiring in headlight bucket  - looks fine

Not sure what else to do at this point? Very frustrating as beautiful Fall weather for riding ;( Recall this bike ran great until parked for a week or 2 then symptoms appeared (2+3 not firing) when I went to ride again.

Any ideas?

[theDQG]

Ok had some time to work on the K2 today and here is the latest:

1. New OEM coils
2. New DENSO spark plugs
3. Same Dyna S with one wire going to black/white 4-way connector

Checked all wiring, checked for spark at plugs (yes on 2+3).

Still same issue as with old set of coils (so its not the coils)  --> 2+3 not firing.

checked the wiring in headlight bucket  - looks fine

Not sure what else to do at this point? Very frustrating as beautiful Fall weather for riding ;( Recall this bike ran great until parked for a week or 2 then symptoms appeared (2+3 not firing) when I went to ride again.

Any ideas?

Looks like it's the Dyna S, if everything else has completely checked out.

[knowsnothing]

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Probably this.  Do you have the old points to throw on and test?

[andy750]

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Probably this.  Do you have the old points to throw on and test?

No I dont. The Dyna S was installed back in 2000  Ill look into replacing the Dyna S - do you have a timing light Treeve?

Anyone know a good source for the Dyna S - Ebay has it for $120

[seanbarney41]

I just had a failed dyna s in a kz650.  It had been purchased in 2007 and was only used for about 1500 miles.  Same symptoms that pretty much everyone on the internet reports...as soon as the engine gets hot, 2 and 3 trigger fails, cools off works fine.  I replaced it with a much older used spare.  This dyna was at least 1990s vintage and has been faultless for at least 15000 miles.  Does anyone know if dyna has this problem sorted out yet?

[slikwilli420]

I just had a failed dyna s in a kz650.  It had been purchased in 2007 and was only used for about 1500 miles.  Same symptoms that pretty much everyone on the internet reports...as soon as the engine gets hot, 2 and 3 trigger fails, cools off works fine.  I replaced it with a much older used spare.  This dyna was at least 1990s vintage and has been faultless for at least 15000 miles.  Does anyone know if dyna has this problem sorted out yet?

Ive got a new Dyna with the smaller pickups in my race bike and have not had a single issue. My bike gets damn hot and ridden hard, likely far harder than a spirited ride on the back roads or eating up highway miles. Maybe I got lucky and their QC sucks, but I got a good one. Who knows.

[andy750]

Hey slikwilli420 where did you buy your Dyna S from?
thanks
Andy

[seanbarney41]

I just had a failed dyna s in a kz650.  It had been purchased in 2007 and was only used for about 1500 miles.  Same symptoms that pretty much everyone on the internet reports...as soon as the engine gets hot, 2 and 3 trigger fails, cools off works fine.  I replaced it with a much older used spare.  This dyna was at least 1990s vintage and has been faultless for at least 15000 miles.  Does anyone know if dyna has this problem sorted out yet?

Ive got a new Dyna with the smaller pickups in my race bike and have not had a single issue. My bike gets damn hot and ridden hard, likely far harder than a spirited ride on the back roads or eating up highway miles. Maybe I got lucky and their QC sucks, but I got a good one. Who knows.

that is good to hear matt.  But I am still concerned that a road race bike is just not running for a long enough period of time for the problem to appear, so more a factor of run time than sheer heat.   When the problem first appeared, it might take an hour of riding with hot weather.  By the time I trouble shot, it would happen within 20 minutes consistently despite the ambient temperature.

[Godffery]

 I've had customers come to me regarding issues with aftermarket electronic ignition, and more often then not, it came down to mismatched components. Especially with some of the older units, as they seem to like stock coils even less.  Now when ever I update the Ignition, I do the Coil update with it. (staying with the same brand as well)

 Godffery

[andy750]

Ok I need som help...installed the new Dyna S today and now need to time it...have a timing light - see pic...but never used it so...how do I go about setting the timing on this Dyna S:
1. Where does alligator clip of timing light attach to?
2. Where does pointy side of probe go to?

What’s next?

Thank you for any pointers...




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[scottly]

Ok I need som help...installed the new Dyna S today and now need to time it...have a timing light - see pic...but never used it so...how do I go about setting the timing on this Dyna S:
1. Where does alligator clip of timing light attach to?
2. Where does pointy side of probe go to?

What’s next?

Thank you for any pointers...




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Andy, I don't know if you can use a test light like that to static time a dyna s, but it's been a while since I've read the instructions? A proper "timing light" is a strobe that is used with the engine running.
The base plate as it sits is rotated fully counterclockwise, or at the most advanced position.

[ofreen]

Yes, I used a strobe timing light to set the one in my 750F so many years (30!) ago.  Still have the light, an old Craftsman inductive type.  It still works, even after being hit by fans a time or three.   

[PeWe]

I installed my Dyna-S, plate in center position.
Started engine with timing strobe lamp hooked up on plug wire 4.
Quickly adjusted the plate to idle correctly. 2:3 were OK too so no need to adjust 2:3 with the allen tool included with Dyna-S.

I think I turned plate direct for even idle before lamp.

I used an advancer that I have modified the springs to make it possible with F line up at idle and full advance OK too, around 2600 rpm.

The only problem I saw was rotor wrong. Just set it as the instruction show.

[fxef79]

Ok I need som help...installed the new Dyna S today and now need to time it...have a timing light - see pic...but never used it so...how do I go about setting the timing on this Dyna S:
1. Where does alligator clip of timing light attach to?
2. Where does pointy side of probe go to?

What’s next?

Thank you for any pointers...

Probe tip stuck into the blue (for cyl 1,4) or yellow (for cyl 2,3) wire connections to the coils. Don’t disconnect the coils. Ideally you can stick that probe tip in there while the wires stay connected and get it to stay. Clip to ground (frame).

Start with blue, cyl 1,4. Rotate crank so the advancer is at the fully advanced mark (the right most of the pair of tiny advance marks) for 1,4.  Now key on, and with one hand holding the advancer cam fully advanced (clockwise), rotate the plate just until the light turns on.  Tighten down. Key off. Now switch probe to the yellow coil wires, and rotate the crank to the 2,3 fully advanced marks. Key on again, and probe should just light when you twist the advance cam fully advanced. Loosen the Allen screws on the right side pickup (the 2,3 pickup) and adjust it if needed.

To confirm it’s right, with cam held fully advanced,  as you rotate the crankshaft forward, the test light should just turn on when the fully advanced marks hit the index mark. Yes, it’s a freakishly difficult thing to both hold the cam fully advanced with your fingertips WHILE you rotate the crankshaft using a wrench on the advancer nut.

BTW... pull all 4 plugs while you do this. You don’t want to be dealing with that compression trying to rotate the crank, nor having a cylinder happen to fire I suppose. Not to mention, rotating the crank against compression using the advancer nut is supposedly a major contributor to a bent advancer shaft. Hondaman has a number of posts in that topic.

If you’ve done all of this right, you’ll have the fully advanced position timed correctly. Idle should fall into place in that case.

I THINK I have that right. Hunting the “official” instructions now.

EDITED to correct the direction you rotate the crank/engine.  Sorry!

[fxef79]

FWIW, that just gets you “static” timed. At that point it should run safely. Then you can dynamically time using a strobing timing light.

[fxef79]

Here's the official instructions:

http://www.dynaonline.com/skins/downloads/instruct/DS1-1_1-2.pdf

[andy750]

fxef79 (and PeWe/Greg/Scottly) thank you! Thank you for walking me through the static timing instructions which is what I was looking for to get it running. I am hoping to get it rideable so MikeR can show me timing by strobe.

I also found this You Tube video (

that seems to say the same thing as Fxef79. It may seem amazing to you all that I have been riding CB750s for 27 years and never had to set timing on one  . I have been very very fortunate to have met some great people who have helped me along the way (and probably a little bit lazy in not learning it for myself but in my defense the Dyna S has proven very reliable over that time (last 20 years) and before that points were set and worked well.

Anyway thank you. I did install the Dyna S yesterday so with the above instructions I can get it running.

Very much appreciated.
Andy

[scottly]

Yes, I used a strobe timing light to set the one in my 750F so many years (30!) ago.  Still have the light, an old Craftsman inductive type.  It still works, even after being hit by fans a time or three.   

I also have a '70s vintage Sears Penski inductive timing light, that was a Christmas gift. The same year, I also received a matching compression gauge, vacuum/fuel pump pressure gauge, and Craftsman 3/8" and 1/2" drive torque wrenches; my family understood my needs.
The last time I used the timing light on my 750 with a Gerex electronic ignition was over 20 years ago, after having split the cases to under-cut the transmission dogs with a dremel.

[Jerry Rxman Griffin aka MuthaF'er]

Well I'll one up you as I also have a chrome Craftsman timing light AND a NIB Gerex 

Andy, just this one more time then you're set for another 20 years. The real beauty of an electronic ignition.

[PeWe]

No other rebuild making a tear down needed?  Like another cam if setting degree wheel on ign side.

I have adjusted a lot due to  rebuilds.
Last year I changed coils with leads and ignition to be sure that the carbs issue really was 100% carbs.

Really quick comeback of the Dyna-S for a few days to see that it was carbs only...


But the quick hook up,  set it up by ear followed by strobe lamp was  really easy.
I understand those who love that.
No time consuming adjustment of points by Dwell.

My advancer has been used for Pamco and Dyna-S before so no time consuming setup for full advance only,  getting bad idle caused by too early advance (sloppy springs) as I had when setting up the Pamco 2013-14.

I hope I can enjoy  long time of no adjustments.

[andy750]

Its taken a while to get back to the K2 but today was garage day and I got a lot done:
1. Finish install of VStrom rear tire change and test drive
2. Troubleshoot K2

Looked at each plug on the K2 (a couple of times, checked all wiring etc...tried to start it nothing...I was getting spark on all plugs but no firing up. Thought Id messed up the Dyna S install and static timing. At the end of it all I called MikeR and chatted a bit with him - great help in resetting the brain It turned out to be a wire was coming loose when installing the gas tank...once I figured that out it fired right up. After 10 months of not running those throaty HM300s were music to my ears.and a quick 3 mile test drive confirmed firing on all 4 and pulling well. Very steady idle.

Now needs a longer test drive to confirm all ok. Very relieved!

cheers
Andy

[andy750]

Its been about 15 yrs since the K2 had a K1 seat but thanks to forum member Johnnie the K2 now wears a K1 seat again...see below with the comparison to the DSS K2 replica seat. I like the K1 seat for a couple of reasons: 1) I rode 16,000 miles to Mexico and back to Boston using a K1 seat  and 2) lower profile and better stitch pattern than the replica.

Comments always welcome.

cheers
Andy

[Alan F.]

Nice choice Andy!