Topic: Andys CB810 K2 -updated 29 Oct: new harness routing questions

[HondaMan]

I, too, think Scottly may be onto something: when a battery tender is used the battery involved can change its chemistry from being always trickle-charged (which is something we discovered in my shop in 1972-74) and damage its plate(s). This happened most often to batteries that were more than 2 years old (back then) and were just the typical lead-acid type, but constantly charging even a lithium battery is not a great idea.

[andy750]

Battery had been in bike since 2020 and kept on Batter tender when not being used.

This would not be the first reported case of batterycide by battery tender.

Ok I like this easy solution Thanks for re-thinking this. Ill still test the rectifier but new harness and new battery on the way.

BTW my voltmeter does indeed have a diode setting - how do I test? What is a good reading?

[ofreen]

I, too, think Scottly may be onto something: when a battery tender is used the battery involved can change its chemistry from being always trickle-charged (which is something we discovered in my shop in 1972-74) and damage its plate(s). This happened most often to batteries that were more than 2 years old (back then) and were just the typical lead-acid type, but constantly charging even a lithium battery is not a great idea.

I found that leaving an old-style trickle charger on a wet cell battery indefinitely would run the battery dry.  The Battery Tenders aren't supposed to do that, going into a "float mode" when the battery is fully charged.  However, since I haven't used anything but AGM batteries since 2000, I can't check electrolyte levels.  I don't trust electronic devices to be infallible left unattended.   So while I use Battery Tenders, having retired my trickle chargers long ago, I won't leave leave them on for months at a time (like in winter).  But I am comfortable with them being on a week or two at a time, then giving the battery a rest.  Could be that is unnecessary, but I am still getting 7-8 years out of the batteries in my bikes.

[Johnie]

You guys have me thinking to change my use of my Battery Tender. In WI I have been leaving my BT on during winter (Nov. - April) for 15 years and usually get 4 - 6 years on a battery. Maybe I should consider using the BT 1-2 weeks a month instead. Mine are all AGM in climate controlled shop. I would sure hate to fry my OEM wiring.

[HondaMan]

I, too, think Scottly may be onto something: when a battery tender is used the battery involved can change its chemistry from being always trickle-charged (which is something we discovered in my shop in 1972-74) and damage its plate(s). This happened most often to batteries that were more than 2 years old (back then) and were just the typical lead-acid type, but constantly charging even a lithium battery is not a great idea.

I found that leaving an old-style trickle charger on a wet cell battery indefinitely would run the battery dry.  The Battery Tenders aren't supposed to do that, going into a "float mode" when the battery is fully charged.  However, since I haven't used anything but AGM batteries since 2000, I can't check electrolyte levels.  I don't trust electronic devices to be infallible left unattended.   So while I use Battery Tenders, having retired my trickle chargers long ago, I won't leave leave them on for months at a time (like in winter).  But I am comfortable with them being on a week or two at a time, then giving the battery a rest.  Could be that is unnecessary, but I am still getting 7-8 years out of the batteries in my bikes.

You're a smart man...
Among other things, the cheap electronics these days that come from [shall we say...] the 'Far East' are not UL tested. They are marked with a pirated, illegal UL marking, and have not been approved for unsupervised use.
(That translation includes the word "...fire..." in it somewhere.)
My Chinko versions don't get used unless I'm there, while my UL versions are old friends I trust.

Sort of like raising your brother's kids...

[PeWe]

I have a cood charger, CTEK   MXS 5.0.

I charge once a month or 2nd. 24 hours or a day only.

I guess it's OK until the green LED is lit.
In season as well as off.

After adjustments, carb sync and tests a reason to charge for a while too.

[scottly]

BTW my voltmeter does indeed have a diode setting - how do I test? What is a good reading?

A diode is a one-way valve for electricity. The diode setting on your meter will read the forward biased voltage drop when the diode is conducting, usually around .500, and when reverse biased, by reversing the meter leads, will read the same as when the meter leads aren't touching anything.(one of my meters reads 1., and another one reads 3..) There are 6 diodes in the rectifier, and they need to be tested in both directions.

With the meter black lead connected to the rect red wire, probe each of the yellow wires with the meter red lead. Each should read about .500. Next reverse the meter leads, and check each yellow wire again: now they should each read whatever your meter shows with the leads not touching anything.
Now, place the red meter lead on the rect green wire, and probe each yellow wire with the meter black lead. Again, the results should be about .500, and after reversing the meter leads each yellow should read the same as open meter leads.

[Don R]

 In the old Goldwings, that white charging system plug is a common problem that's often bypassed by removing it entirely and soldering the wires together. When it corrodes the load causes a heat related failure which makes matters worse until it fails.
 I had a relatively new blade fuse holder melt down in a similar fashion, it caused me a fair amount of grief.

[RAFster122s]

In Goldwings and CX500 and Silverwings that plug failure can lead to a stator failure. Fortunately, stator failures on the CB750 and 500/550 are rare.

[Johnie]

In the old Goldwings, that white charging system plug is a common problem that's often bypassed by removing it entirely and soldering the wires together. When it corrodes the load causes a heat related failure which makes matters worse until it fails.
 I had a relatively new blade fuse holder melt down in a similar fashion, it caused me a fair amount of grief.

Don I have the 76 GL1000 I am currently working on. It has 15K miles so I pulling that white charging system apart and the blades are like new. Should I still remove the 3 white wires and solder them together for safety sake? Probably so, aye?

[Don R]

In the old Goldwings, that white charging system plug is a common problem that's often bypassed by removing it entirely and soldering the wires together. When it corrodes the load causes a heat related failure which makes matters worse until it fails.
 I had a relatively new blade fuse holder melt down in a similar fashion, it caused me a fair amount of grief.

Don I have the 76 GL1000 I am currently working on. It has 15K miles so I pulling that white charging system apart and the blades are like new. Should I still remove the 3 white wires and solder them together for safety sake? Probably so, aye?

Mine looked good too so I didn't remove it either. I did use some di-electric grease on it. The NGW guys say remove them.

[Johnie]

Agreed...I also used the dielectric grease and slid it back together. Thx...

[andy750]

BTW my voltmeter does indeed have a diode setting - how do I test? What is a good reading?

A diode is a one-way valve for electricity. The diode setting on your meter will read the forward biased voltage drop when the diode is conducting, usually around .500, and when reverse biased, by reversing the meter leads, will read the same as when the meter leads aren't touching anything.(one of my meters reads 1., and another one reads 3..) There are 6 diodes in the rectifier, and they need to be tested in both directions.

With the meter black lead connected to the rect red wire, probe each of the yellow wires with the meter red lead. Each should read about .500. Next reverse the meter leads, and check each yellow wire again: now they should each read whatever your meter shows with the leads not touching anything.
Now, place the red meter lead on the rect green wire, and probe each yellow wire with the meter black lead. Again, the results should be about .500, and after reversing the meter leads each yellow should read the same as open meter leads.

Prefect thank you! Very clear!
Much appreciated,
Andy

[PeWe]

It is easier to see this with help of the CB750 Shop manual ch.8 where the rectifier's diodes are visible in a circuit diagram.

[andy750]

Ok new replica harness came in ($50 at Everett Powersports - looks identical to the Yamiya one and all the other replica ones).

Age-old question on routing...

Option 1: My K4 has it going over the coils and on the outside of the frame then down inside the frame over the airbox and coming out at rectifier etc
Option 2: Shop manual shows it going along bottom of coils then up - then down over back of airbox.

Ive provide a pic of suggested route for harness based on shop manual where its outside the coils/frame. At first I put it through the frame triangle but that seems wrong based on shop manual.

Concerned about tank hitting it and rubbing on it.

Thank for any input.
cheers
Andy

[Alan F.]

For $50 dollars I'll have to ask them about harnesses for my K3 and K8, thanks for the recommendation Andy and good luck.

[newday777]

I finally found the picture I was looking for! (Too many pictures to go through)
My harness goes along the lower side of the coil, then through the triangle to follow and clamp to the center frame rail.
Hope that helps.

[PeWe]

Same here
Photo on my K6 with Mikuni TMR carbs so throttle cables on right side of frame.
I have also thicker bonus wirings to headlight relays, 12V and minus. Plus battery status LED and voltmeter wirings connected to coils 12V, Dyna 5 ohm coils.

My K2 with stock carbs (and coils) both throttle cables on left side as the photo above.

Make sure that stock carbs can fully open the throttles without touching the wires.
I had to adjust my K2 for that.  The throttle mechanism need space.

[andy750]

Thanks Stu and Per very clear and thats exactly what I was looking for!
Much appreciated!
Andy

[PeWe]

I reinforced the harness where it bends around the coil bracket close to the frame triangle.
Fiberglass tape. Sometimes a rubber hose I have opened. I have tinkered with it a little too often, my K6 especially.

I have replaced the bullet plugs for coils with more durable flat connectors.

I have had too many bad connections  causing misfires or 2 cyl ride when the weak bullet plug socket opens up when getting some abuse.

[Stev-o]

Hey Andy...sorry to hear of your issue.  So, did you buy another MotoBatt? [I have a couple of them and they have been good]

I dont leave tenders on my bike batteries, but do on the classic cars.
So the new question is: To tender or do not tender?!

[andy750]

I reinforced the harness where it bends around the coil bracket close to the frame triangle.
Fiberglass tape. Sometimes a rubber hose I have opened. I have tinkered with it a little too often, my K6 especially.

I have replaced the bullet plugs for coils with more durable flat connectors.

I have had too many bad connections  causing misfires or 2 cyl ride when the weak bullet plug socket opens up when getting some abuse.

Great advice Per and I will def be following the fiberglass tape idea especially after reviewing my K4 harness and noticing a tank-rubbed hole appearing. I also hear you about the random misfiring - do you use a particular source of durable flat connectors?

[andy750]

Hey Andy...sorry to hear of your issue.  So, did you buy another MotoBatt? [I have a couple of them and they have been good]

I dont leave tenders on my bike batteries, but do on the classic cars.
So the new question is: To tender or do not tender?!

Thank you this K2 has been a real princess over the years  Yes I did buy another Motobatt. The one in the K4 is from 2018 and has been great - on Tender every New England winter all the time. But maybe it’s time to review that given the advice here. I still have to check the rectifier first.

[PeWe]

....
I also hear you about the random misfiring - do you use a particular source of durable flat connectors?

Before I used AMP I got from my job 35-40 years ago.

Last times cheaper a little bit thinner but still OK from cheap auto parts store.

Important to use correct tool when crimping.
I have one old professional hand tool for the AMP with thicker metal. Only blue and red sizes.
(Use that tool for the newer thinner metal connectors will not squeeze enough.)

Another tool for the cheaper thinner bought where they sell the connectors.

The cheaper tool for yellow, blue and red.
Yellow very seldom for thicker wires, or 2 wires into 1 connector.

[andy750]

For $50 dollars I'll have to ask them about harnesses for my K3 and K8, thanks for the recommendation Andy and good luck.

Hey Alan good to hear from you and good luck yourself with the K3 and K8