Author Topic: brake bleeder valve broke off on me (Read 12420 times)

76 cb550 · « **on:** March 17, 2008, 12:20:41 PM »

I'm getting really good at breaking off things on this bike

So my questions are can I (should I) use an EZ out to remove this broken valve, and (i'll look this up on my own but) how hard is it to get a new bleeder valve.

thanks again

750goes · « **Reply #1 on:** March 17, 2008, 12:34:29 PM »

try not to use the ez-out - if it breaks off in there then you are totally knackered..I can get you photos of my first attempt to prove it...

try and very slowly drill it out with a standard drill bit..... use lots of penetrating oil......

76 cb550 · « **Reply #2 on:** March 17, 2008, 12:39:33 PM »

drill it out? Not familiar with the technique your referring to.

Elaborate if you don't mind.

Bodi · « **Reply #3 on:** March 17, 2008, 12:47:24 PM »

The bleeder screw gets broken off fairly often when working with antique calipers. The steel screw just corrodes itself to the aluminum alloy caliper body. Sometimes an E-Z-Out works but just as often the thing snaps off... and then you have a lump of hardened steel stuck in there.
The screw has a threaded portion, then a reduced diameter tip (cross-drilled to let brake fluid into the hole bored down from the outside nipple end) then a pointy tip. This means you can drill out the steel screw part without much worry about ruining the caliper. You can not drill it out if there's a piece of E_Z_Out broken off in the thing!
The bleeder screw has that centre hole - a super excellent bonus for drilling as it will guide your drill down the centre of the threaded hole. Metric drills are a bit fun to find, you want a 6mm or slightly smaller drill for the 7mmx1mm thread size. Using a 15/64" (5.95mm) drill bit should work nicely. You will have to go in at the right angle, the centre hole helps but you're drilling steel and the aluminum is a bunch softer than steel... your drill bit will be happy to go through the alloy caliper rather than the steel screw. If you slip a small drill bit into that centre hole you can see the angle to try and drill. Once you get through the threaded part, the tip part will start to spin and wobble in the hole and the drill will feel different. Stop drilling immediately! The tip should shake out.
Once the body of the screw is drilled out, the remains of the screw threads should come out easily. You may have to pick at them with a pin but you have to remove them.

76 cb550 · « **Reply #4 on:** March 17, 2008, 12:56:29 PM »

thank you...a bit intimidating but I guess I'll take a crack at it

edit: should I remove the caliper to do this?

TwoTired · « **Reply #5 on:** March 17, 2008, 01:14:34 PM »

Do NOT use an ez out. The taper it has will simply wedge the remaining bleeder stub into the threads more securely.

You will have to remove the caliper, clamp it in a variable angle vise and use a drill press or a mill to remove the body of bleeder remains.

Cheers,

76 cb550 · « **Reply #6 on:** March 17, 2008, 01:24:21 PM »

well that's unpleasant news twotired

I have no drill press and I have no variable angle vise...

To be honest I have already started drilling the thing out. it seems to be going ok.

I'm using a slightly smaller bit than was recommended though...

EDIT: feel free to fuss at me...I can be talked out of doing it this way

mystic_1 · « **Reply #7 on:** March 17, 2008, 01:32:48 PM »

Quote from: 76 cb550 on March 17, 2008, 01:24:21 PM

EDIT: feel free to fuss at me...I can be talked out of doing it this way

Fuss, fuss, fuss!

Just kidding! If you're doing it by hand, just BE CAREFULL!

Starting smaller than the expected size is a good idea. You do not want to drill into the threads. Work your way up with larger bits, then when you've gone as far as you think you can, a dental pick or similar instrument should help you peel out the thin shell that remains of the bleeder.

Do take the caliper off, if only to clean it throughly afterwards. One metal shaving in the wrong place at the wrong time will really ruin your day.

Good luck!

mystic_1

76 cb550 · « **Reply #8 on:** March 17, 2008, 01:37:46 PM »

I thought about taking it off and putting it in a vice to drill it out but it's held on there pretty securely so I think I'll leave it in there until i get the bleeder out then I'll take off the caliper and clean it out really good.

I'm sure I'm gonna screw this up but hey I've been wrong before.

TwoTired · « **Reply #9 on:** March 17, 2008, 01:38:29 PM »

Drilling freehand makes the probability of destroying the caliper body threads highly likely. Most drills will wander even if there is a pilot hole. When this happens you lose the body threads on one side.

I've only been successful drilling out one bleeder. Even then, I lost some thread material using a drill press. Maybe I'm just clumsy.

I have heard of people getting a larger bleeder screw, then drilling a tapping the caliper for it. I would think that you'd need a starting tap and a bottoming tap to do this properly.

I should also mention the you can bleed the single caliper brakes WITHOUT the bleeder screw, as long as it blocks that bleed hole.

All the air will eventually rise to the master and escape there. It just takes longer than with a bleeder.

Cheers,

76 cb550 · « **Reply #10 on:** March 17, 2008, 01:54:47 PM »

ok so my options are

1. keep drilling till I get it out or ruin the threads in the caliper

2. get somebody else to drill it out for me$$$

3. If I ruin the threads then I'd replace the caliper with a new one (includes not broken bleeder) how much will this cost and what is the part I'd need to replace called(caliper?) I'll look this up on my own a little later so don't worry too much about answering the price question unless you know off the top of your head.

4. forget about the stupid bleeder screw and just wait for the brakes to autobleed...(that is very interesting TT do you have to leave the cap off the MC for a while? How long does it take)

TwoTired · « **Reply #11 on:** March 17, 2008, 01:58:40 PM »

Quote from: 76 cb550 on March 17, 2008, 01:54:47 PM

4. forget about the stupid bleeder screw and just wait for the brakes to autobleed...(that is very interesting TT do you have to leave the cap off the MC for a while? How long does it take)

Look in the Brake FAQ. I wrote up a brake caliper rebuild walk though some years ago. The bleeding process is in there.

It usually works pretty good in a couple hours, and completely over-night.

Cheers,

mystic_1 · « **Reply #12 on:** March 17, 2008, 02:01:07 PM »

If you've already started drilling, you're probably pretty much committed to this course of action at this point. May as well give it a go as the worst case is that you need a new caliper which you may need at this point anyway.

As mentioned above the bottom of the bleeder screw is of a smaller size then the threaded portion, so stop occasionally and look down the hole you're drilling. Stop when you see any sign of breaking through the bottom. Now that you have depth set, work the diameter up until the bottom falls out or is just about to. Just when you think you can probably get away with one size larger, STOP! lol. If you see ANY sign of the threads along the sides of your hole, stop because you've gone too far. At this point the threads are just a thin shell along the inside of the hole and with a little determination should be extractable as mentioned above.

At worst, a replacement caliper shouldn't be too hard to come by around this place.

For a replacement bleeder you should be able to get a speedbleeder:

best of luck!

mystic_1

Gregorymoto · « **Reply #13 on:** March 17, 2008, 04:12:19 PM »

I'm in the Broken ezout club as well dont do it.

Jeremiah · « **Reply #14 on:** March 17, 2008, 04:31:50 PM »

I saw some tool somewhere that you mount to an air hammer and it supposedly greatly improves rusty bleeder valve removal by shock... Anyone tried it out? know who sells it?

76 cb550 · « **Reply #15 on:** March 17, 2008, 06:55:41 PM »

thought about the autobleed...there is a problem. I don't think the brake fluid in this thing has ever been drained. It is so cruddy and nasty in there I'm amazed it worked when I bought it and I'm not at all surprised that it has seized up since. So it needs to be drained no matter what. I will be replacing this bleeder or the caliper (depending on how this goes) so it doesn't really matter to me but I'm curious. If you depend on the autobleed then how do you go about draining?

I saw that air tool as well. If I had known it was going to break I might have taken it to a mechanic or someone who might have access to this tool. Hindsight is 20/20.

If anyone is reading this and has a caliper laying around that they aren't using send me a PM as I am pretty sure I'm gonna strip out these threads with my drill. Haven't done it yet. Took a break to go to my GF's house for a while. But I'm sure that by the end of the night those threads will be gone. Let's hope I'm wrong.

a pessimist is only ever pleasantly surprised

76 cb550 · « **Reply #16 on:** March 17, 2008, 07:22:00 PM »

well using a smaller drill bit I somehow managed to pull of the threads on one side and expose them on the other...soo...new caliper added to the shopping list.

moham · « **Reply #17 on:** March 17, 2008, 07:26:43 PM »

I'm 1-1 with the ez-out. Lost one on the handlebar stem, won one on one of the sprocket cover screws. Good luck with plan b.

cafe750 · « **Reply #18 on:** March 17, 2008, 07:33:15 PM »

Quote from: Gregorymoto on March 17, 2008, 04:12:19 PM

I'm in the Broken ezout club as well dont do it.

There's a club? Do we get a sticker too?

My 750F came with a broken bleeder, as well as a myriad of other goofy little problems...I tried the ez-out method, and now I have a caliper with a really cool stub of an ez-out...

76 cb550 · « **Reply #19 on:** March 17, 2008, 07:47:34 PM »

right now I'm wishing I had used the ez-out

I'm sure that if I had used the ez-out I would be wishing I had drilled it out.

Jerry Rxman Griffin aka MuthaF'er · « **Reply #20 on:** March 17, 2008, 08:47:17 PM »

As Mystic said, get Speed Bleeders. HOWEVER, I'll add that if you send your caliper to them, they will install it for you AFTER removing the broken one at no charge. Pay postage and buy a Speed Bleeder for $7. Stainless slightly higher. Does it get any better than that?! Double check with them to see if the deal is still on.

CBGhia · « **Reply #21 on:** March 17, 2008, 08:51:43 PM »

I know its a bit late, but I used to have a set of "backwards" drill bits. (loaned them out and now they are gone

). They were perfect for getting broken bolts out. They don't spread out like an easy out, they just drill into it and it usually breaks free while drilling. You can find them if you do a search for left hand drill bits. Seriously, they rock!

mystic_1 · « **Reply #22 on:** March 17, 2008, 09:22:42 PM »

Is the 550 caliper the same as later 750K calipers? If so I may have a spare one lying around but I'd have to check it's condition.

Alternatively, how about something like this?

http://www.levineautoparts.com/bleederrepair.html

mystic_1

76 cb550 · « **Reply #23 on:** March 18, 2008, 01:11:43 PM »

they are not the same...oh well. Thanks anyway

I can't tell how those bleeder repair things work. I've sent them an e-mail asking if they can fix my problem.

I knew about those backwards drill bits. Wish I had thought of them before I started drilling. Oh well

Quote from: RxmanGriff on March 17, 2008, 08:47:17 PM

As Mystic said, get Speed Bleeders. HOWEVER, I'll add that if you send your caliper to them, they will install it for you AFTER removing the broken one at no charge. Pay postage and buy a Speed Bleeder for $7. Stainless slightly higher. Does it get any better than that?! Double check with them to see if the deal is still on.

WOW I WISH I HAD KNOWN THAT! I've destroyed half my threads soooo yeah I think it's too late. Thanks very much anyway =)

mystic_1 · « **Reply #24 on:** March 18, 2008, 02:06:36 PM »

Did you ever manage to get the rest of the broken bleeder out? How bad does the hole look? Pics?

mystic_1

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Author Topic: brake bleeder valve broke off on me (Read 12420 times)

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