Topic: HELP!!

[78_SaltLick]

So, yes i am a dummy when it comes to bikes, this is my first bike, so yes this will be another stupid question, and thank you to anybody that helps. I bought this bike about a month ago now, the owner put a brand new battery in it the day he sold it to me.  I was starting it up, and letting it warm up just about every day, it started with ease every time. Didnt take it on a test run, cause the breaks needed to be bled, amongst a bunch of other repairs. So i took it out and drove it for about an hour for the first time about 3 days ago , came back home and parked it. It ran great, had a great time. Well, i go to start it today, and the battery is dead. It tries to start at first, but then it just dies out a slow death. The headlight goes dim now when you push the start button, and it just kinda clicks. My first thoughts are that, since this is a new battery, my last ride was basically draining straight off the battery for it to be drained like this. Or, i noticed that i left that red button on the throttle side in the "Run" position instead of "Off" I dont think this could have drained it....could it? One more thing, my bike is parked in our closed off garage, that gets extremly humid sometimes from my wife doing the laundry, the exaust from the dryer is pumped right into the garage. It becomes quite an aquariam in there about once a week all day. Could that drain the battery? Oh dangit.....someone give me some ideas to start with. I was going to go down and have the battery charged, then try it again.....but the battery is brand new. I looked at the water levels, and some of them are below the "Low" level. Is this normal for a new battery? Help me guys!

[Buffo]

you need to add electrolite to your battery if it isnt already bad. the kill button has nothing to do with it. the humidity will kill your metal.

Every time you start your bike it drains the battery. These dont charge at an idle so if it just sits and idles for a while it is just running off of the battery and never charging, further draining your battery. You should just get a good battery tender. they sell them at walmart.

you should check the levels once and a while to keep them up.

When you fill the electrolite WEAR SAFETY GLASSES. (Acid or DISTILLED water, not tap)

on the other hand your charging system may be over charging your battery and dring it out.
but i doubt it.

Some one lese will tell you the rpm at which these things start to charge at...I dont know.

dont sweat it ...yet

don

[78_SaltLick]

Ah, i see. I must admit, even though i did ride it for an hour, i dont think i ever did get it over 30mph, or into 3 gear really. i basically drove it around my block several times, and then to a parking lot where i practiced slow turns with it. Other than that, yes just alot of idling the bike before this. It has also been extremly hot here, a heat wave for oregon, close to the 100 degree mark every day for the past week since i rode it, and my garage gets extremely hot. Would that dry out the electrolites?....okay So go and fill the electrolites back up, then trickle charge it, then really give it a good run to keep it charged up....yes? Man i hope thats it.

[78_SaltLick]

Buffo, is a battery tender the same as a battery charger?

[scondon]

     I'm not sure the difference between a battery tender and a trickle charger but I do know that you don't want to use a car battery charger on your motorcycle battery. a motorcycle battery charges at 2 amps or less and a car charger puts out 10 amps or so, so make sure you get the right charger. I bought a car charger with a 2 amp switch at the local "Everythingcrappyforless" superstore. You probably already know this, so this is a "just in case" post.

       I wouldn't worry about adding acid to your new battery. Some distilled water to the fill line and a night on a trickle charge oughta put you back in the running.

     If you don't want to go fast yet you can run the RPM's up to 5000 in first and second gear around town.Charging system starts getting juice back in your battery around 3000rpm, I think. Also, try kickstarting it if your doing a lot of idle engine testing, That starter draws a lot of juice.

[78_SaltLick]

I dont have my motorcycle license yet, so im tryin not to take it out for a real long drive cause i dont want to get busted. I gotta practice on my bike before i take the test, thats why im forced to keep it arond the block and in parking lots right now. Once its charged, ill try keeping the RPM's up while i am riding around. Thanks

[MPH2]

i'll be in the same boat as you this monday but this is frederic here and it is a little town so i'll be able to get away with it so i can get alot of pratice and then i'll be taking the test

[TwoTired]

If your battery is dead, the electrolyte will be low.  It will come back up when it is charged.  If there is still enough fluid to cover the plates, charge it first, then add distilled water, if it needs to be topped up.
The starter button disconnects the headlight while the button is pressed.  That's one reason for it to go out during start. The starter motor draws 100-200 amps.  With the headlight on, you'll need 2500RPM or better to charge the battery.  And, then it only puts about 4 amps INTO the battery at those RPMs when the battery is low on charge.  Do the numbers, a 15 second starter draw at 150 amps, would need more than 10 minutes of operation above 2500 to fully replenish the battery.  However, operation below 1500 RPM drains the battery at a 6 amp rate, or thereabouts.  That energy has to be put back into the battery, too, or it will deplete.

A good battery tender can charge a battery.  A battery charger doesn't normally tend a battery and can damage the battery if left on for too long.  There can be many differences.  I've been really happy with this one:
http://www.chaparral-racing.com/Chaparral/productr.asp?pf%5Fid=321%2D2101Y&gift=False&HSLB=False&mscssid=6D765A777EE548DCA6FCF3E5FA216CE6

This is a three level charger; 900 ma to charge a depleted battery, a reduced charge rate when the battery is near peak to get full chemical saturation without over heating, and then a float level to keep the battery peaked.  You can use this charger indefinately and never have to worry about overcharging, overheating, or damaging the battery in any way.  The only thing it doesn't have is temperature compensation during charge.  But, during float this may not be necessary, anyway.

[Bob Wessner]

One more thing, my bike is parked in our closed off garage, that gets extremly humid sometimes from my wife doing the laundry, the exaust from the dryer is pumped right into the garage.

Going back to this statement since the battery/charge issue seems to be pretty well covered. You definately want to reroute this dryer vent to the outside. I'm not sure what your climate is, but even cool nights with this inside venting set-up is disasterous for bike storage, or any other storage for that matter. Around my area, this would be a code violation.

[Raul CB750K1]

Generally speaking, batteries don't need to add electrolyte. When the battery is discharged, the electrolyte level lowers. If you top it up, when you charge it it will probably overflow in the best case, ruining everything on its way. Anyway, never add electrolyte because you will change the concentration. Add only distilled water, that is the only thing inside that evaporates.

A battery tender is intended to be connected 24 hours a day. It provides just a few milliamps to keep the battery charged. I don't see the use of it. I would rather buy a battery charger and give it a dose every 30-45 days (4-5 hours). That's what I do, because lead-acid batteries don't have memory effect so you can charge as much or as few as you want.

Regarding the battery charger, in principle it doesn't matter wether it is designed for car or motorcycle. Maximum charging rate should be C/10 (being C the capacity of the battery in amps/hour). That is, if the battery is rated at 20 amps/hour (meaning it would last one hour at a constant discharge of 20 amps), the maximum charging rate should be 2 amps. That rate can be slightly increased to speed up the charging time (usually between 10-14 hours), but it will overheat the battery and lead to early demise.

So, a motorcycle battery can perfectly charge a car battery. The problem is that it will be working at full power, and it will take a long time to charge the battery. You can "guesstimate" doing an algebraic calculation. If at C/10 it takes 12 hours, at C/20 it takes 24 hours and so on.

On the contrary, a car battery can perfectly charge a motorcycle battery. You need that the charger have some kind of current limiter to limit the peak current. Or if it has an integrated amp meter, connect it to it and see what happens with the current. At the beginning they can go to 6-8 amps, but after some minutes it will drop to 1-2 amps. You just let the battery get as much as he wants. The key is: first, put something like a plastic container at the end of the overflow tube just in case. Second, if the battery overheats or bubble a lot stop inmediately. Hydrogen is freed while charging so you should connect the battery leads first and then the mains supply to avoid sparks, and disconnect the mains supply and then the battery leads for the same reason. A little heating and some bubbling is perfectly acceptable.



In a nutshell...


Raul

[Bob Wessner]

A battery tender is intended to be connected 24 hours a day. It provides just a few milliamps to keep the battery charged. I don't see the use of it. I would rather buy a battery charger and give it a dose every 30-45 days (4-5 hours).

I guess I have to disagree on this. The smart chargers today (Battery Tender, etc.) do more than just provide a few milliamps of charge. They actually monitor the battery condition and modify the charge needed as necessary. I believe, if properly used, they can significantly extend the service life of most lead-acid batts. Also, from what I recall of my physics/chem days, lead-acid batteries are happiest when their charge stays within 10% of their fully charge rating. Drastic ups and downs shorten their useful lives.

As an example of the smart charger sensitivity, I was having trouble with my turn signal switch. Couldn't find the mid-off position by feel. If I tried to turn it off without looking I would often overshoot and turn the other signal on. Thought about replacing it, but an orig., even used, goes for $70. Took it apart and found the lever had been bent slightly and the dimple wasn't finding the little detent in the upper switch surface. Bent it back a bit. With the bike still on the charger, I turned on the ignition, and tried the blinkers, left and right for perhaps 2-3 blinks each and then turned the ign. off. The battery monitor detected this small amount of discharge and recharged it to full, which only took about 30 seconds.

[Raul CB750K1]

The parameters that affect battery charging are so many. Above C/5, the graphs reach a flat level, that is, no matter how much you increase the current, the time never drops and it actually overheats the battery and reduce it's life.

In proffessional applications (like the ones used for telecom equipment backup power supply) the batteries have NTC's attached -temperature sensors- that modify the charging rate depending on the temperature. They also have a safety switch that completely disconnect the battery in case the voltage drops below a presettable value (say 10 volts) to avoid it being deep-discharged, a fact that renders a battery unusable.

For our vehicle applications we don't have to go that far. Vibration and cold weather destroys them quicker than an occasional high-current jump. I would not get too concerned about the high current issue. The key is the battery shouldn't get too hot nor should it bubble too much.

Raul

[78_SaltLick]

Good lord you guys! I guess i am a simple man.......so i get a battery charger from target......that i can handle. My battery is a 12amp, so there is different battery charges? I am looking for a 12 amp charger i suppose. 

[Bob Wessner]

More like 1.5 AMP charger, just my opinion.

[scondon]

1.5 or 2 amp charger. It should say "for motorcycles" somewhere on the package. Takes around 12-16 hours to charge a fully depleted battery.

[78_SaltLick]

You guys kick ass! Thanks again.

[Bob Wessner]

You guys kick ass!

I have to assume, or hope, this has a different meaning today than it did back in my day. 

[Dennis]

Quote
One more thing, my bike is parked in our closed off garage, that gets extremly humid sometimes from my wife doing the laundry, the exaust from the dryer is pumped right into the garage.

Going back to this statement since the battery/charge issue seems to be pretty well covered. You definately want to reroute this dryer vent to the outside. I'm not sure what your climate is, but even cool nights with this inside venting set-up is disasterous for bike storage, or any other storage for that matter. Around my area, this would be a code violation.

In addition to that, all that moisture sure isn't doing the garage itself any good, either!!

I'm not going to comment on the battery charging since the other guys have covered that pretty thoroughly.

[TwoTired]

Good lord you guys! I guess i am a simple man.......so i get a battery charger from target......that i can handle. My battery is a 12amp, so there is different battery charges? I am looking for a 12 amp charger i suppose.

Well, a 12 amp charger will recharge your battery.  But, you will have to monitor it closely to keep it from damaging the battery.  Disconnect when it starts to gas freely.  And, it probably won't peak the battery to full potential and saturate chemical conversion in all parts of the cells.  But it will likely charge your battery in under an hour.  Theroretically you would want a 1.4 amp charger to charge at a safe rate without being too attentive for the charge process. The batter tender, on the other hand will charge your battery slower.  But, operation is totaly unattendend, you can oversleep without worry, and the battery will acheive full chemical saturation, peak charge, and maximize its useful liife.

Cheers,