Topic: I've never seen a Virago look this beautiful!

[DammitDan]

Check this out...  I want one!  It's like a Jap V-twin Beemer 

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&&item=160222289782&ssPageName=ADME:B:EF:US:1120

[Aaron J Williams]

Trust me, you don't want it. The XV920 had the worst starter system know to man. I have had several and all of them required extensive, spendy re-work in order to start reliably. The newer Viragos don't have the problem since the system was re-engineered after the 920 fiasco. It's a nice bike and fun to ride if you can get it started.

[nickjtc]

That was a bike on which we regreted the day that kickstarters became obsolete. The early 750 Virago was noted for its starter woes too.

It makes me kind of glad that the XT and Commando are kickstart only....at least you get to display your manly prowess as you flail up and down on it trying to get the fires to light.

[DammitDan]

Too bad then, I love the styling on that bike!

[donny]

required extensive, spendy re-work in order to start reliably.

I thought there was some guy sold an upgrade fix to the early Virago starter issue for $100. or so ? ?

[Aaron J Williams]

required extensive, spendy re-work in order to start reliably.

I thought there was some guy sold an upgrade fix to the early Virago starter issue for $100. or so ? ?

Yes, and that fix is 2 shims and a little clip to tension one of the springs on the idler shaft. After that you still have to replace the tension spring on the starter shaft, cut a half coil out of the worm gear spring on the idler shaft, shim the gear reduction unit in the starter nose, lock the outer ring of the gear reduction unit to the starter nose housing and replace the idler shaft gear that engages the flywheel if you are lucky. If you are NOT lucky you have to replace the starter ($300) and flywheel or get the ring gear teeth re-cut for $200 more. And while you are at it you might as well replace the starter solenoid with one from a Goldwing and replace all the battery cables with new ones half the size of a car's battery cables. Even after all that hassle your system will still chatter on engagement and grind so you have to make sure the bike is in perfect tune so it starts after one revolution of the engine, every time. If you crank and crank you overheat the new starter and it throws solder off the armature and you need another new starter.

[nickjtc]

Who was it who said that there isn't a bad Japanese motorcycle?

[scunny]

That was a bike on which we regreted the day that kickstarters became obsolete. The early 750 Virago was noted for its starter woes too.

It makes me kind of glad that the XT and Commando are kickstart only....at least you get to display your manly prowess as you flail up and down on it trying to get the fires to light.

[Lumbee]

...poor engineering on the starting systems must have been endemic at Yamaha.  Been playing with the XS650's the last year, and 650's eat their bendix gear for dinner every time you turn it over...

[DammitDan]

...poor engineering on the starting systems must have been endemic at Yamaha.  Been playing with the XS650's the last year, and 650's eat their bendix gear for dinner every time you turn it over...

Never had a problem with my xs650, but my xs850 (as one of my harley riding friends puts it) "cries like a little girl" whenever I hit the starter 

[crazypj]

Who was it who said that there isn't a bad Japanese motorcycle?

 The actual bike/engine is great, as long as you never stop it when running. The starter sucked so bad from new, we un-crated one and rang Yamaha to ask what the hell was wrong with it.
 All the original XV700,750,920,1100 had same crappy system.
 At one time there was a kickstart conversion as the motor was used for sidecar motocross
 The XV535 was a completely different engine, it had crappy carbs that originally needed engine removal to get off engine (it  has been bored out and had some extra chrome thrown at it for the 'Star' line 600/650?)
PJ

[nickjtc]

Wasn't that one of the first bikes to use a 'hugger' fear fender/mudguard?

[DammitDan]

From that pic I was actually wondering if it used a single center shock (which would have been pretty progressive...)

[NPHLYT]

....at least you get to display your manly prowess as you flail up and down on it trying to get the fires to light.

Funny, my 1962 Puch fires right up on the first kick, and it does not have to be that manly of a kick either. But then it is a 2-stroke too-fiddy!

[DammitDan]

Something that's always had me wondering...  is a 2-stroke 250 the equivalent of a 4-stroke 500?  If not, what are the differences?

[NPHLYT]

Something that's always had me wondering...  is a 2-stroke 250 the equivalent of a 4-stroke 500?  If not, what are the differences?

This cannot really be compared to either 4-stroke or conventional 2-stroke engines as there are 2 cylinders that go up and down at the same time (not reciprocating), have separate houses (cylinders) but share a common attic (combustion chamber). Even odder (is that a word?) is that there are 2 separate exhaust pipes.
Picture stolen from here http://home.sprynet.com/~inniss/sears.htm

[DammitDan]

I was actually thinking about 2-strokes in general vs. 4 strokes in general.

The twingle is a unique design that doesn't really count   

[NPHLYT]

The twingle is a unique design that doesn't really count   

Now I am offended 

[troppo]

Something that's always had me wondering...  is a 2-stroke 250 the equivalent of a 4-stroke 500?  If not, what are the differences?

And here i was thinking the 2 stroke 250 was equivalent to the 4 stroke 125

[DammitDan]

The twingle is a unique design that doesn't really count   

Now I am offended 

Hey what can I say, I'm an offensive kinda guy.

I figured a 250 2-stroke had twice the power as a 250 4-stroke, as you're getting double the number of power strokes per cycle.  So logic follows that a 250 2-stroke would have equivalent power of a 500 4-stroke, right? 

[Aaron J Williams]

From that pic I was actually wondering if it used a single center shock (which would have been pretty progressive...)

Yes, the Virago was a softail before the Harley was. They are great bikes once they start but the thing that gets me is that Yamaha knew the starting system was bad when they engineered it. They put a magnet right below the area where the idler gear engages the flywheel to catch all the metal shavings.

[DammitDan]

Well #$%* there's something ELSE I've learned today!  I thought a soft tail motorcycle was any motorcycle with a swingarm and rear shocks connected to it for suspension. (as opposed to a hard tail, which there is no swingarm and the suspension is directly connected to the seat pan)

If a softail (same as "soft tail"?) has a single rear shock hidden along the bike's axis, what are the ones with exposed outer shocks called?

[nickjtc]

If a softail (same as "soft tail"?) has a single rear shock hidden along the bike's axis, what are the ones with exposed outer shocks called?

Normal motorcycles.

I'm not sure that a 2 stroke generates double the power of a 4 stoke....anyone? But if you cast your minds back to the first year of MotoGP the 500 2 strokes were allowed to race against the 990 4 stokes.

[Aaron J Williams]

In theory the 2 stroke should make twice the power of a 4 stroke of the same size. In the real world I think there are more things involved in getting power out of a 2 stroke than displacement. I'm no 2 stroke guru but I seem to remember that porting and exhaust pipe dimensions make a lot of difference on 2 strokes.

[heffay]

I figured a 250 2-stroke had twice the power as a 250 4-stroke, as you're getting double the number of power strokes per cycle.  So logic follows that a 250 2-stroke would have equivalent power of a 500 4-stroke, right? 

theoretically, yes... realistically, no.
the power loss thru a 2 stroke is greater than a 4.  basically, 2 strokes are far less efficient motors than 4 strokers.  hence, the nickname "smokers".