Topic: I agree With The Rear Window Sticker On A Durango Today.

[bill440cars]

      The Sticker read:


                   If you don't want to stand behind our troops,

                   Then stand in Front of them!

                                             Bill

[Steve F]

      The Sticker read:


                   If you don't want to stand behind our troops,

                   Then stand in Front of them!

                                             Bill

[eldar]

See now that is double sided.

I stand behind our troops, but I also stand behind bringing them home and out of that mess. To some that means I do NOT stand behind them. Why is this? Is it somehow better to have them over there getting shot at?

[heffay]

thanks eldar... sometimes we disagree... sometimes we don't.   

girlfriend was telling me of one that i know i agree with... 
it read: support road-head

 

[FunJimmy]

girlfriend was telling me of one that i know i agree with... 
it read: support road-head

Need a girl like that. 

[BobbyR]

      The Sticker read:


                   If you don't want to stand behind our troops,

                   Then stand in Front of them!

                                             Bill

+1

[DammitDan]

      The Sticker read:


                   If you don't want to stand behind our troops,

                   Then stand in Front of them!

                                             Bill

+1

-1

Hah!

[333]

Why is it that when someone says something against this invasion or the idiot that ordered it, it always is turned around to infer that that someone is not standing behind our troops?  I've NEVER heard anything derogatory said about our troops, only about the jerks that started it.

[nickjtc]

The same could be said of our (Canadian) troops in Afghanistan. The government has said they are going to be a presence for a few more years yet. Pity.

[Spikeybike]

reminds me of a quote from Justin Sain (yes that's his real name) who is an anarchist, he's listing the "10 easy steps to create an enemy and start a war"

"step6 :eliminate opposition to the ruling party,create an us versus them mentality,leave no room for opinions in between, one that does not support all actions of the ruling party should be considered a traitor"

[eldar]

road head is good head!

[bill440cars]

            Think back to Vietnam, when the troops came home, what kind of reception did they get?   Thing is, the troops didn't decide where to go, they just tried to do as they were trained to do. If only Swartzkoff (or however you spell it) would have been allowed to get Sadam back then. I don't know about everyone, but I feel that if a person is responsible for the killing and torturing of people (especially his own), he needs to be dealt with.

            BTW, I didn't post this to start a huge discussion about anything except, Keep the troops in your prayers (if you are a praying person) and don't blame them for where they go (they are only following orders that they have sworn to do). That was the intent of this post. Too many times folks read into a post what isn't really there. Maybe I should have been more specific.

                              I'm outta here,  Bill

[Raul CB750K1]

Popcorn anyone? Terry?   

[SEBNN]

Why is it that when someone says something against this invasion or the idiot that ordered it, it always is turned around to infer that that someone is not standing behind our troops?  I've NEVER heard anything derogatory said about our troops, only about the jerks that started it.

Why is it when someone disagrees about the causes and what can be done about global warming and the idiot who is trumpeting it as the greatest calamity to face the earth they are called an evil fascist tire burning neanderthal.  I've never heard anyone who doubts that the earths temperature has increased slightly, only about the hypocritical scumbags who are using this to make money like you wouldn't believe.  If you don't believe me, look who is most likely to profit from the changes that "must" be made to "combat" global warming.  "Its for the kids."

I am being contradictory, but not argumentative, and answering your question with a question.  Short answer, people are lazy and it is easier to group people than to take the time to fully understand their position on some complex issue.

All that said, +1 to the bumper sticker and +1 to finishing the war in Iraq properly, unlike the "phased withdrawal" that we did in Vietnam that had so many positive effects for the lives of those in south Vietnam.

And that said, here is the hypothetical question, "If a leader in another country is killing people in his own country through weapons of mass destruction (a gas is a germ is a nuke) of through conventional means do we as a people have any obligation, moral or otherwise, to interfere with the internal workings of their country."  I ask this question because there were those in power prior to world war II who felt that the US should not bother Germany and that hopefully the anti-semitic feelings in their country would burn out before too long.  These were people in the president's cabinet.

[eldar]

sebnn, how do you finish Iraq properly? I would like to know that one. Also how long will this take? IS there a way to end it properly? I mean Bush's plans have not worked with stay the course now have they. I mean do you feel it is ok to have troops there 20 or 30 years to "do it right"?

Fact is that even racism is alive and well over 100 years after the civil war. It will take even longer than that over there as they are driven by religion. There is no "Proper" way to end this.

Just like there was no proper way with vietnam. Even today the military experts do not see any way there could have been a "proper" way out.

There never really is a proper way in war other than to avoid it all together.

[dusterdude]

who gives a rats ass about the who,what,when,where,how all this crap started.if we aint goin to win this thing properly,bring em home now.

[heffay]

i stand behind them... about 7,000 miles behind them.
i'll be happy to buy one or two of them dinner when they return... tell them how i appreciate the help and all but, damn, why are you guys killing each other again?
i have absolutely no reason to kill anyone nor do i have any reason for it to be done for the good of me, my family or my country.

perhaps i've done too many mind altering drugs to keep interest in death and destruction in the name of peace, because i know better.  it really baffles me, the abomination of this world. 

i grew up near ft. riley and had many g.i. friends.  four of them went to bosnia, post desert storm.  i said goodbye and i haven't seen them since.  elizabeth's father just came back from iraq a few years ago... not to place blame but that sh!t really disrupted that family.  i have proof, but i will not lay it out here. 

all while having strong emotions against... i can not do anything but say... thank you troops.

[333]

If we forget "the who,what,when,where,how all this crap started", history will repeat itself.  And let's not kid ourselves, there is no way to end Iraq properly.  If it was a war against a country that attacked us or declared war against us, it could be "winable".  But it was an invasion.  Against the guy who, while we didn't agree with the way he did it, was keeping the peace, for the most part.  He would kill 100 or so people a year, and that seemed to be enough to keep these civil- waring factions in line.  We invaded and the civil war exploded.  So not only have over 4000 Americans died, but the death tool for the Iraqis is approaching 15,000.  For the most part, innocent people in a market when a suicide bomb goes off.  That's one thing we should never forget.

[754]

I hang around a bit at nedthetoothpick and a lot of the riders there go on or support the PGR avtivities.


Seems on here though it never gets mentioned?

[edbikerii]

Yeah, there is an excellent discussion going on over at http://www.nedthetoothpick.com.

http://nedthetoothpick.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=17363

[heffay]

one reply to a democrat bashing thread is a good discussion?

[DammitDan]

So not only have over 4000 Americans died, but the death tool for the Iraqis is approaching 15,000.  For the most part, innocent people in a market when a suicide bomb goes off.  That's one thing we should never forget.

You're absolutely right on that count, 333.

But isn't that 15,000 number a little conservative?  I hear about 30 people killed this day, 100 people killed this day, and this has been going on for the last 5 years...  It has to be more than 15,000 killed, not to mention the tens if not hundreds of thousands of Iraqis who have been injured or crippled by insurgents.

We have close to 30,000 American soldiers who have been wounded in some way, many of them badly injured with limbs missing or severe burns or other trauma.  This war has cost us more than many people realize.

Stay the course?  You tell me.

[BobbyR]

      The Sticker read:


                   If you don't want to stand behind our troops,

                   Then stand in Front of them!

                                             Bill

Hey Bill et al.!

I think we've been through similar things with our service in Nam..et al.  Only thing I want to add (as former medic during Nam era) is that War's hell..and any other rationalization either imagined or political is bull s--t in my opinion.

The others here can "theorize" on what former or current situations were/are with our troops..but there's no humanistic justification for the suffering that they (we) have had to endure.  Wouldn't you agree?

That's one big reason I really want to see these  bull s--t chicken hawks (including McCain) put out to pasture in this next election.  (I can't for the life of me understand how McCain can be so insensitive to the continued killing of our troops..the consummate politician I guess).

Anyway..keep up the good fight.  At least some of us who had to go through this 35 years ago still remember the fiasco of letting arm-chair politicians determine the fates of so many of us.

And Terry..mate..with all due respect..you should know better (I know you do).

Semper fi!

Ichi

P.S. if you weren't there..please don't act like you know what's actually happening.  This current situation in Iraq was a political route by the neocons..and our troops are paying the price!

Ichi understands the difference between thumping your chest with patrotic zeal 7,000 mikes away, and trying to plug a hole in the chest of a 19 year old in the middle of a firefight.
The main difference between Nam and Iraq is that the general public is supporting the troops. They have been able to seperate the policymakers from those who were ordered to follow the policy. While I was not a Marine. Semper Fi back at ya Ichi.

P.S. Ichi, it was the "Chickenhawks" that extracted you all from the hot LZs.    

[Hope]

I saw that one too.....

Great way to start a debate about the war...

I'll sit back and watch this one

[heffay]

bobby... i'm not sure if that 7000 mile comment was aimed at me but if you think i have patriotic zeal you misread my post. 

i am about as far from patriotic as one can get... but that does not mean i don't wish the troops well and hope that they might come home soon.

ichi saw a lot of sh!+ that i purposefully didn't enlist because of so that i didn't have to... for doing the dirty work... i thank him too.

hope... what did you see?