Author Topic: Reuse Crush Washers? (Read 9088 times)

bozo4onion · « **on:** April 03, 2008, 08:21:04 AM »

Can I reuse the crush washers to reassemble the front brake lines and master? Honda dealer service says NO. Can I get these w/o ordering from Honda (they're out here). Auto part store? This could really slow me down.

754 · « **Reply #1 on:** April 03, 2008, 08:22:41 AM »

You could anneal them, not sure what they are made of though..

sparty · « **Reply #2 on:** April 03, 2008, 08:23:24 AM »

If you want leaks you can re-use them. Otherwise NO is the answer.

Sparty

mkramer1121 · « **Reply #3 on:** April 03, 2008, 08:30:45 AM »

Quote from: bozo4onion on April 03, 2008, 08:21:04 AM

Can I reuse the crush washers to reassemble the front brake lines and master? Honda dealer service says NO. Can I get these w/o ordering from Honda (they're out here). Auto part store? This could really slow me down.

Take them with to an auto parts store, they should have some. Murray's had the copper ones for the oil lines/ oil filter bolt on the 750, would probably have the brake line ones as well.

hymodyne · « **Reply #4 on:** April 03, 2008, 08:32:42 AM »

Gotta go with new ones...
hym

754 · « **Reply #5 on:** April 03, 2008, 08:41:21 AM »

I anneal fork drain washers all the time, in less time than I could pick up new ones, if they had them. takes about a minute..

I have reused brake ones, they either leak or seal.

mystic_1 · « **Reply #6 on:** April 03, 2008, 08:49:33 AM »

I do believe that our bikes use "standard" 10mm x 1.25 banjo bolts, crush washers are widely available for these and should cost very little. Any motorcycle shop or dealer should have 10mm crush washers on hand.

Don't re-use old ones.

mystic_1

bozo4onion · « **Reply #7 on:** April 03, 2008, 09:43:41 AM »

Thanks for the help. I ordered 10 from a CBX site. $3.50 for 10 w/$9.00 shipping. They are $2.00 EACH (bend over) here at the Honda shop. The wait is the prob. Now to expose my ignorance....what exactly is annealing. I've seen bike builders anneal before forming metal by simply heating the panel w/a torch. I guess I need to know how hot and how long. Thanks

Jinxracing · « **Reply #8 on:** April 03, 2008, 09:57:29 AM »

Quote from: bozo4onion on April 03, 2008, 09:43:41 AM

....what exactly is annealing. I've seen bike builders anneal before forming metal by simply heating the panel w/a torch. I guess I need to know how hot and how long. Thanks

In simple terms, annealing is the process of softening metal. The process varies depending on the type of metal being worked with. Usually it involves heating the metal red-hot and then allowing it to cool. How hot you get it and how fast you cool it down are the determining factors as to what hardness of metal you'll end up with.

A web search will give you answers on specific metals and their hardening/annealing/tempering processes. If you really want to get into it Machinery's Handbook has an awful lot of specific information.

merc2dogs · « **Reply #9 on:** April 03, 2008, 09:59:59 AM »

Quote from: bozo4onion on April 03, 2008, 09:43:41 AM

what exactly is annealing.

If they're copper, simply heating it works to anneal them, no special cool down process required, copper can be quenched in water to anneal. With most other metals you need to heat then let it cool slowly, not quenched in anything. Some types of steel need to cool down over a day or better to be annealed.
annealing temps are -normally- about half the melting temp of the material, but for practical purposes, if it glows even a little bit when the heat's removed it's warm enough

You often see people welding a bracket or something, then dunking it in water to cool it off quick, and wonder why the bracket fails so often. quick cooling hardens the metal and canm cause it to fail after a few flexes.

Ken.

Jinxracing · « **Reply #10 on:** April 03, 2008, 10:08:17 AM »

Quote from: merc2dogs on April 03, 2008, 09:59:59 AM

You often see people welding a bracket or something, then dunking it in water to cool it off quick, and wonder why the bracket fails so often. quick cooling hardens the metal and canm cause it to fail after a few flexes.

+1 !!!

One other quickie rule of thumb, when you're heating steel to harden or anneal it, the temperature that you want to hit before quenching or burying in sand is the same temperature that the steel loses its magnetic properties. So, you can stick a magnet to the steel being heated (not a rubberized fridge magnet unless you're feeling dangerous) and as soon as the magnet falls off, dunk it or bury it!

bozo4onion · « **Reply #11 on:** April 03, 2008, 10:48:37 AM »

Hey thanks again. You guys are great. The Honda shop has 4 washers in stock and I may try and end my annealing virginity and torch the remaining 2 old ones. Kinda red and into water right? Strange how the manual (clymer) warns you about stuff like not pulling the brake lever with the caliper off but doesn't warn not to reuse the crush washers.

mystic_1 · « **Reply #12 on:** April 03, 2008, 10:57:59 AM »

Quote from: bozo4onion on April 03, 2008, 10:48:37 AM

Kinda red and into water right?

No, kinda red and then allow to cool slowly. Bunging them into water would harden them, opposite of what you want to do.

mystic_1

Jinxracing · « **Reply #13 on:** April 03, 2008, 11:22:07 AM »

Quote from: mystic_1 on April 03, 2008, 10:57:59 AM

No, kinda red and then allow to cool slowly. Bunging them into water would harden them, opposite of what you want to do.

True with steel, not with copper. According to a whole lot of online sources, copper should be heated and then quenched in water to anneal. Of course, if in doubt try it out!

mystic_1 · « **Reply #14 on:** April 03, 2008, 11:52:21 AM »

Not doubting you one bit, just not sure now what the stock crush-washers are made of? Are they copper? If so they must be plated or somethings, as all the ones I've seen are silver in color.

mystic_1

Jinxracing · « **Reply #15 on:** April 03, 2008, 11:57:22 AM »

Your guess is as good as mine when it comes to actual material, alloy, etc.

As for my $.02 on the matter, I'd never re-use those crush washers, annealed or not; I can't see the benefit of cheaping-out on any part of the braking system.

mystic_1 · « **Reply #16 on:** April 03, 2008, 12:01:57 PM »

I agree completely. Safety issues aside, one drop of brake fluid in the wrong place can sure ruin your paint job's day.

mystic_1

bozo4onion · « **Reply #17 on:** April 04, 2008, 08:03:37 AM »

Me2 I guess. I'll wait for the new ones. thanks again for the help. Next.........Assembly and bleeding. I hear it's easy w/no problems ever.

754 · « **Reply #18 on:** April 04, 2008, 08:15:23 AM »

I think they are either aluminum or copper & plated.

Moot point for my bike as I changed to braided lines decades ago... braided lines without banjos..looks so much cleaner without them..

The only benifet they have (that I can see) is they adjust radially..

If you dont understand metal that is designed to be annealed you will fear it.

Do bike people really actually still use brake fluid that can damage their paint

who knew...

Bob Wessner · « **Reply #19 on:** April 04, 2008, 08:16:07 AM »

Quote from: bozo4onion on April 04, 2008, 08:03:37 AM

Me2 I guess. I'll wait for the new ones. thanks again for the help. Next.........Assembly and bleeding. I hear it's easy w/no problems ever.

Yup, just like carb work, a breeze.

CrisPDuk · « **Reply #20 on:** April 04, 2008, 08:31:08 AM »

Crush washers are generally made from either copper or aluminum. You can usually reuse the aluminium ones if you're feeling cheap, but 9 times out of 10 the copper ones will leak especially under pressure applications.

For the Honda brake lines you should be able to source the correct washers from any hydraulics service agency. M10 or 3/8" is a very common size for agricultural and industrial plant.

moham · « **Reply #21 on:** April 04, 2008, 05:47:00 PM »

Quote from: CrisPDuk on April 04, 2008, 08:31:08 AM

You can usually reuse the aluminium ones if you're feeling cheap,

...or ignorant, as in my case, having just re-built the front cylinder, caliper etc and standing there scratching my head wondering how all that fluid stayed in the line and the bolt just held together with two metal washers

...For my bike, the washers didn't look overly compressed or misshapen (78 750k) and I'm assuming now that they are aluminum or similar (surley not copper, to my untrained eye) and I'm hoping I don't need to re-do the job with fresh washers. Guess I will have to check it out...(thanks for the piggyback bozo4onion)

333 · « **Reply #22 on:** April 04, 2008, 06:12:05 PM »

My rule of thumb in these cases is: High pressure like brakes or hydraulic clutch, use new. The oil drain plug, reuse 2 or 3 times, and then replace with new.

Who has time to anneal?

Jerry Rxman Griffin aka MuthaF'er · « **Reply #23 on:** April 04, 2008, 06:45:35 PM »

This should go over like a lead balloon. I just replaced all four 17 year old brake hoses on my 91 Acura Legend with new stainless braided hoses I got off EBay for $50. You'd think they come with new crush washers. NOT. Acura had 5. Honda had 3. Drive all over for half a day. 8 X $3.50 each. Screw it. The old original ones (not copper) had never been disconnected it appeared. REUSED THEM. Tightened them a little snugger. Topped off the fluid. I'm keeping an eye out for potential leaks. Of course the car is quite a bit safer than the bike. The way I figured this is if it were that important the Acura dealer and Honda dealer would have carried 8. They weren't out of stock either. They told me they do not carry that many.

754 · « **Reply #24 on:** April 04, 2008, 07:02:54 PM »

Like I said, annealing takes a minute...

How long does it take to get them from a dealer??

I am not saying you should re-use them (but i have), but as I pointed out a lot of riders dont know how to anneal...

So I am asking now, what do you do with the crush washer wen you change fork oil??

News:

Author Topic: Reuse Crush Washers? (Read 9088 times)