Topic: 1969 CL450 needs restoration. What should I pay for it? Photos attached

[seebee750]

Hi,
I have restored  5 CB750 sohc4 and want to learn something new
I am considering buying a 1969 CL450 as a restoration project.Shown in the attached photos
I don't want to pay too much and spend a lot of time and money only to find out that it is not a desirable model.
It is all there except the side covers. It kicks over but has not been started for 4 years.
I would like to know if the CB model  is more desirable than the CL model as far as collectables go.
Also I wonder what the production numbers were for all years of CB450 CL450 DOHC
 Any advice would be appreciated.
What is the most I should pay? What would be a good deal?
What do restored CL450s sell for?
thanks
Lee Bates
Nova Scotia Canada

[bill440cars]

        First let me say that I'm not good with saying how much you should pay for something or sell it for. I can say that, from what I've heard, a number of folks prefer the earlier models to the later models. Personally, the earlier models are all right but, I'm kinda partial to the 74' CB & CL. I can give you links to get the info you want, about the CL & CB450s. If you get a chance, stop over by hondatwins.com and see what they have to offer on the twins.

    For the CL450: 

http://www.motorera.com/honda/h0450/scramble/scramble.htm   


    For the CB450:


 http://www.motorera.com/honda/h0450/sport/sport.htm


           As for production numbers, I have no idea. I like the 450s for several reasons. They are tough, they make some pretty good power for their size and consider the fact that they were built t give the British bikes a run for their money!

                            Later on, Bill

[Johnie]

Not gospel, but a bench mark for you...the VJEMC price guide shows the '69 CL450 Scrambler at $800 for a parts bike in poor condition.  That seems pretty high to me.  Some guys use the $1 per cc rule.  In looking at the pictures I would use the $1 per cc but start your offer lower than that...

[scramblermontana]

I bought a '69 a while ago but it wasn't in as bad of condition as the one you have pictured. I paid $600. Mine doesn't have the same gas tank as yours does. Mine has the badges with the wings. Might be the wrong tank but others will chime in. I am enjoying working on it as parts are easy to come by,unlike the Bultaco Alpina I thought I could restore !

[seebee750]

There was an early 69 K1 with the round tank badges and a late 69 mode,l  the K2, with Honda badges.
Some sites I have found so far.

http://home.comcast.net/~rdarke/450cl.htm

http://groups.msn.com/HondaCB450DOHC

http://www.motorera.com/honda/h0450/scramble/scramble.htm

http://www.motorera.com/honda/h0450/sport/sport.htm

http://hondatwins.com/phpBB1/

[bill440cars]

   

         Yeah, you are right, there were 2 models during 69'.

         Here's a shot (not too good of one, I know) of a 69' CL450K2 and the tank looks like yours (to me, anyway)

         

[Gregorymoto]

Dam i thought you might have a black bomber,
I would not spend more that 500 600 if it is running and all the right parts are there. If the motor is stuck but all the parts are there in ok condition no more than 300.
The worth of the bike in restored condition, depending what state you live in and who is looking at it 1,000 to 2,000

The one scramblermontana has i think and I'm pretty sure IS A Late and last model Black bomber and that is worth some money, not as much as the 65 but that bike in restored condition could sell for 2g to the right guy mabey 3g, if it is 100% complete and the weather is right and the god are looking down at you.
I got me a 65, Ha Ha i paid 200 for it in 1995 and i got a parts bike.
I love it all most as much as my f0

[bill440cars]

         Here's a 450K0 that I'd go for. A CL450K0 that is!
     I've seen ONE on ebay some time back, and that's it. 

             

[seebee750]

Thanks for everyones input. I did not make an offer yet. The owner would rather trade something but as a starting point he would accept cash dollars, one thousand of them.

I also asked members of the Vintage Japanese motorcycle club that are owners of CL450s for there input.
Here is what member Rick said...
Lee-
The early CL models (1968, 1969, and 1970) are slightly more desirable than the CB models.  The '69 shown in your photos is beyond restoration in my opinion due the the amount of rust on so many parts. It might be worth fixing up as a rider but it would certainly cost more to restore it than it would be worth, not counting your time. NOS parts are becoming prohibitively scarce and expensive. Clean original motorcycles are the best investment.  I sold a nearly-new-condition 1968 CL450 for approximately 5000 USD about a year ago and this is near the top value for such bikes at this time.    Hope this helps. 
- Rick

Then Rick had a closer look at my photos and responded again.

Lee - honestly I don't think I'd take a bike in that condition if offered to me for free.  I can't see a single useable part on it except perhaps engine parts.- Rick

[bill440cars]

       seebee.  I have to tell you, in no way am I doubting Rick's opinion and info, but there are folks with a lot of different opinions on the condition of a bike that would be restorable. Some want to be able to do some cleaning and maybe a paint job, while SOME (on the other end of that spectrum) would take a bike a lot worse than that one and do a full resto on it. From the pictures, to me, it doesn't look as bad as Rick's opinion of it. BUT $1000!!!! I don't think so. It depends alot of the actual cost of the bike vs the condition. If you get the chance, check with Gordon (Ilbikes) and see what HE restored. Now when HE restores a bike, it's a Brand and model that he's set his sights on and he goes for it. Some folks would LOVE to get a bike in the condition of that CL450, because they aren't as picky. Again, I'm not saying that Rick is wrong, I'm just saying not everyone shares his opinion of a candidate for restoration. If you are still considering that 450, I'd say wait it out and try to deal with him on the price and see if you can get him down considerably. If he won't deal, then  move on. That's my opinion.

          I'd take that sucker for free, in a heartbeat! And I can't believe he wouldn't either.  BTW, Gordon is ALSO a member of VJMC.
                           Later on, Bill

[seebee750]

 When I started this investigation I thought that if I got it for $500 I would be able to spend $1,000 on parts and supplies and have something worth what I had into it,not counting my time, which is free.
 I would definately take it for nothing in a heart beat, and push it all the way home or even $500.
Some people may not  like that much of a challange.
 I am up for it.
 Even with spending no money with some polishing and cleaning and a new battery I think I could make quite an inprovememt.
 Some peoples opinions are based on pure investment decisions. My self I fall in love with a junker and spend too much money  on a project.The satisfaction of turning a stone into a gem turns my crank. It doesnt have to be a diamond when done to please me a rhinestone would do.If I want to make money only I would put the money in a savings account and wait, not much fun and little gratification,with nothing new learned. 

[bill440cars]

         I hear ya seebee. Myself, I've picked up on "Parts Bikes" and then, hate to part them out and would like to fix THEM up too! If only my finances were big enough, there wouldn't BE any parts bikes in my area! Just another example of placing something in front of 10 different people and getting 10 different opinions on what to do with it.
S, are you going to pursue that 450 and try to get him to deal? Just curious? Like to see that 69' in good hands myself.

                                Later on, Bill

[seebee750]

We must be related.
I ended up with 16 sohc4 CB750s at one time.
I saved the 5 best ones but could not bare to part out the other 11. So I gathered more parts for them and then sold  all 11 to a local  sohc4 club member. Now he has around 16 and a lifes worth of work because he does not believe in parts bikes either.
I hope to contact the owner of the CL450 this week.
 He lives 2 hours away so it will take a weekend day.
 If I do end up with it I will be looking for even more advise.
  My wife has a 1982 CM450 so I hope to call the CL450 her project and use her money to buy and restore it. Good idea?

[Johnie]

I agree with Bill...he makes some excellent points.  However, $1,000 is way to high for what I see in the pictures.  And who knows what you may see in person.  I forgot if you said if it runs or not?  But hey, you have to do what you have to do.  If you have unlimited funds and can do it fine.  I would rather hold off and keep an eye out for something that is not so far gone.  But if it turns you on to take a junker and turn it into a jewel, then do it.  We wish you the best to bring a dying machine back to life.  And we are here to help. 

[seebee750]

Everyone is cheering me on. I think I will offer $400 to a Max of $600
I even have some comments from a VJMC member in Germany. There seems to be quite a following for this model.

 Here is another link from him with some nice photos.

http://scrambler450.repage.de/

[Gregorymoto]

400 Go for it, by it and make it your own.

[tbpmusic]

          

This photo is actually what's called a "D" model, and is very highly sought after. The high pipes and a few other body parts were issued as a Dealer retrofit kit, this was never sold as pictured.

The only 450's with any real collector value are Bombers, Police Specials, and the D's.
Here's a shot of the particularly rare Police Special. As far as I know, only 50 of them were brought to the States -




But, that said, the 450 is my favorite bike of all time - especially a black K1 - yummy.
One of the most beautiful bikes ever made (the photo is a Euro model)




bill

[seebee750]

Now I have another offer
2 1965 Dream 300s for $1,000
One is an older restoration from 1990 with lots of NOS Honda parts, including the seat and exhaust. It has been stored in a heated basement after the owner got tired of riding it in 1994.
The other is a 1965 Dream that was used as a dirt bike,the engine is stuck and it is a parts bike for the restored one.
Also a spare engine and box of extra NOS parts go with the 2 Dreams.
 I have not seen the bikes yet and am told that the restored one has a lot of stuff piled up on it and the new seat has a small tear in the side.
 This sounds like a better deal than the CL450 but these Dreams are not as rare? I see a lot of hem on Ebay But will have to look at both deals.
 I am going away for vacation and will dig in to this when I get back.

[bill440cars]

Now I have another offer
2 1965 Dream 300s for $1,000
One is an older restoration from 1990 with lots of NOS Honda parts, including the seat and exhaust. It has been stored in a heated basement after the owner got tired of riding it in 1994.
The other is a 1965 Dream that was used as a dirt bike,the engine is stuck and it is a parts bike for the restored one.
Also a spare engine and box of extra NOS parts go with the 2 Dreams.
 I have not seen the bikes yet and am told that the restored one has a lot of stuff piled up on it and the new seat has a small tear in the side.
 This sounds like a better deal than the CL450 but these Dreams are not as rare? I see a lot of hem on Ebay But will have to look at both deals.
 I am going away for vacation and will dig in to this when I get back.

           You may see a number of the Dreams but they still are a pretty rare item. Go on ebay, for example, and check the prices of parts. The Dream isn't for everyone, but they have a pretty good following still yet. If you're interested, go to honda305.com and check it out. Myself, I'm not into the Dreams as much, but the CB72/77 (250 & 305cc) Hawk / Super Hawk and the CL72/77 Scramblers are another story  (of the same period as the Dream. Now, if you want to talk rare, try finding and buying a Benly 125 Super Sport. Now, THAT IS one I could enjoy!

                                     Later on, Bill

[Johnie]

OK seebee so what was the final decision???  Did you buy anything yet?

[seebee750]

I have been away on vacation.
I also have been offered an older restoration on a 1965 300 Dream. It was done in 1990 and driven for 4 years and put away in heated storage and junk piled on it over the years..
I have not seen it yet but it has an NOS seat and NOS exhaust.
Also it includes a running parts bike the same year and model.
I hope to see all these bikes soon.
I am going away for another vacation so it will be mid to late April before I come to a decision.

[lordmoonpie]

Here is what member Rick said...
Lee-
The early CL models (1968, 1969, and 1970) are slightly more desirable than the CB models.  The '69 shown in your photos is beyond restoration in my opinion due the the amount of rust on so many parts. It might be worth fixing up as a rider but it would certainly cost more to restore it than it would be worth, not counting your time. NOS parts are becoming prohibitively scarce and expensive. Lee - honestly I don't think I'd take a bike in that condition if offered to me for free.  I can't see a single useable part on it except perhaps engine parts.- Rick

WHAT is this guy for real?! This could easily go for £600-1000 at a swap meet in the UK so if you can get it for $1000 you're a lucky bunch of people over there in the USA. The rust looks fairly minimal to me and with CB450 engine parts increasingly becoming obsolete (just try and get gearbox bearings and a crank) then this looks like a bargain. I could take the motor alone and sell it for $500 equivalent in the UK or part it out and get more - crank alone in good used condition would get another $400....it could even have nice little bits like a six-spring clutch basket, much sought after by racers due to the spring pressure?

If you're restoring you spend what you want to spend. Set a budget and stick to it. You can get most if not all of this rust treated, removed rechromed whatever. The CL/CB450 engine is a beauty to work on and ride - buy it now, it's the most fun you can possibly have with your pants on!

[lordmoonpie]

This came in five cardboard boxes covered in moss, mud, dirt, dead spiders and other gunge. It'd been parted out and left under a shed in deepest England UK for three years. If you take out the cost of the performance parts and the carbs I put into the engine when rebuilding, I took the five boxes of junk and spent no more than $2000 to get to this...
 

[bill440cars]

Here is what member Rick said...
Lee-
The early CL models (1968, 1969, and 1970) are slightly more desirable than the CB models.  The '69 shown in your photos is beyond restoration in my opinion due the the amount of rust on so many parts. It might be worth fixing up as a rider but it would certainly cost more to restore it than it would be worth, not counting your time. NOS parts are becoming prohibitively scarce and expensive. Lee - honestly I don't think I'd take a bike in that condition if offered to me for free.  I can't see a single useable part on it except perhaps engine parts.- Rick

WHAT is this guy for real?! This could easily go for £600-1000 at a swap meet in the UK so if you can get it for $1000 you're a lucky bunch of people over there in the USA. The rust looks fairly minimal to me and with CB450 engine parts increasingly becoming obsolete (just try and get gearbox bearings and a crank) then this looks like a bargain. I could take the motor alone and sell it for $500 equivalent in the UK or part it out and get more - crank alone in good used condition would get another $400....it could even have nice little bits like a six-spring clutch basket, much sought after by racers due to the spring pressure?

If you're restoring you spend what you want to spend. Set a budget and stick to it. You can get most if not all of this rust treated, removed rechromed whatever. The CL/CB450 engine is a beauty to work on and ride - buy it now, it's the most fun you can possibly have with your pants on!

          I was wondering about THAT guy myself. He sounds like one of those who wants a near perfect bike to restore! One good thing about that type of guy is, you shouldn't have to bid against him on ebay for an average looking part. He'd be too busy looking for something better for a low price.

          BTW, That is one FINE LOOKING 450 that you've shown in your other post. How about some more pictures and details?

                                 Later on, Bill

[seaweb11]

$1000.00 isn't going to go very far with that bike, but it can be done

Thread on my CL350 build. It was just as bad as that one!
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=4489.0