Author Topic: For you WW1 aviation history buffs...  (Read 1034 times)

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Offline nickjtc

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For you WW1 aviation history buffs...
« on: April 21, 2008, 05:07:52 PM »
.......today is the 90th anniversary of the death of Baron Manfred von Richthofen, the 'legendary' German fighter ace.

Interesting write-up here, with video: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manfred_von_Richthofen
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Offline kghost

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Re: For you WW1 aviation history buffs...
« Reply #1 on: April 21, 2008, 05:33:18 PM »
The engine from his plane in the emperial war museum in london....



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Offline Sam Green Racing

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Re: For you WW1 aviation history buffs...
« Reply #2 on: April 21, 2008, 05:45:01 PM »
I wonder how they ballance a 9 cylinder motor ???

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Offline jbailey

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Re: For you WW1 aviation history buffs...
« Reply #3 on: April 21, 2008, 06:19:54 PM »
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Offline kghost

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Re: For you WW1 aviation history buffs...
« Reply #4 on: April 21, 2008, 06:36:45 PM »
I wonder how they ballance a 9 cylinder motor ???

Sam. ;)

They don't sam. That is a rotary radial and the whole engine spins with the prop.
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Offline TwoTired

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Re: For you WW1 aviation history buffs...
« Reply #5 on: April 21, 2008, 06:48:24 PM »
Yes, the "crankshaft" is fixed to the airplane.
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Offline jevfro

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Re: For you WW1 aviation history buffs...
« Reply #6 on: April 21, 2008, 07:55:24 PM »
I had to see it to understand.. this might help others 
[youtube=425,350]<object width="425" height="355"><param name="movie" value=" name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src=" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="355"></embed></object>[/youtube]
EDIT: opps thats a radial not a rotary.. the whole cylinder spins on those right?

here's a radial rotary... I still don't get exactly how that works...
[youtube=425,350]<object width="425" height="355"><param name="movie" value=" name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src=" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="355"></embed></object>[/youtube]
« Last Edit: April 21, 2008, 08:02:01 PM by jevfro »

Offline nickjtc

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Re: For you WW1 aviation history buffs...
« Reply #7 on: April 21, 2008, 09:13:04 PM »
Cool, thanks for that. The top motor is a radial, meaning that the cylinders radiate out from the crankcase. Imagine a v-twin, but with cylinder all around in a circle. The motor is fixed and the crankshaft rotates inside the crankcase, just as it does with all 'regular' motors. The propeller is attached to the end of the crankshaft, either directly or through gears.

The bottom motor is a rotary, meaning that it is set up in reverse. The crankshaft is fixed, immobile, and the whole engine rotates around it. The propeller is bolted directly to the crankcase. Lubrication is constant-loss using Castor oil. Hence, if you are up on your Biggles stories, the fact that you could always tell the pilot of a rotary engined plane by the burnt Castor oil residue all over his flying jacket. In the same way that gyroscopic precession dictates the reality of how we steer a motorcycle at speed (because the front wheel/tyre acts like a big gyroscope) the rotary motor was actively involved with the manoeuvrability of the aircraft....try to turn 'against' the gyroscopic effect of the mass of the spinning motor and the aircraft turns sluggishly; turn 'with' the gyroscopic effect of the motor and the aircraft whips around very quickly.

Combat pilots in the more powerful rotary-equipped fighters of WW1 (such as the Sopwith Camel) used this effect to great advantage in a dogfight.

Here's a clip of a rotary being started:  Cool the way the propeller looks as it spins.
« Last Edit: April 21, 2008, 09:19:26 PM by nickjtc »
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Offline Terry in Australia

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Re: For you WW1 aviation history buffs...
« Reply #8 on: April 21, 2008, 11:23:53 PM »
My grandfather witnessed ol' Manfred being shot down on the day, and when the rest of the "Flying Circus" had to abandon him because they were running low on fuel, the Aussie soldiers who he'd been harassing (and who probably shot him down) pulled him out, thinking at that stage he might still be alive because his plane landed on it's wheels, and the stretcher bearers took his body away.

Soldiers being soldiers, they all "souvenired"  a piece of his aircraft, and my dad still has a piece of the "blood red" cloth outer skin of his plane. He's also got a much larger chunk of the material from Hermann Goering's plane. Goering, who was Hitlers second in command in WW2, was a talented WW1 pilot, in Von Richtofen's "Flying Circus" too. Cheers, Terry. ;D   
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Offline nickjtc

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Re: For you WW1 aviation history buffs...
« Reply #9 on: April 22, 2008, 06:14:54 AM »
He's also got a much larger chunk of the material from Hermann Goering's plane.

Terry. When was Goering shot down? Maybe he got the souvenir from one of these episodes?

From:  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hermann_G%C3%B6ring

On completing his pilot's training course he was posted to Jagdstaffel 5 in October 1915. He was soon shot down and spent most of 1916 recovering from his injuries.

Göring and his fellow pilots intentionally wrecked the planes on landing. This endeavour paralleled the scuttling of surrendered ships. Typical for the political climate of the day, he was not arrested or even officially reprimanded for his action
« Last Edit: April 22, 2008, 06:20:02 AM by nickjtc »
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Offline kghost

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Re: For you WW1 aviation history buffs...
« Reply #10 on: April 22, 2008, 06:23:48 AM »
Very cool Terry....

BTW Anzac holiday is this week in Ozzieland....Hats off to all the Kiwi and Australian Vets.
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Re: For you WW1 aviation history buffs...
« Reply #11 on: April 22, 2008, 07:16:18 AM »
Here's some ww2 stuff.

A while back I was looking up some stuff on the micro Messerschmitt car made after WW2.
I always like the look of the German planes when a kid and was pretty good at drawing the
ME 109 and Focke-Wulf. I stumbled across the  records while reading about the planes.

http://www.acesofww2.com/germany/Germany.htm

Offline nickjtc

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Re: For you WW1 aviation history buffs...
« Reply #12 on: April 22, 2008, 07:44:57 AM »
Here's some ww2 stuff.

Hmmm. If you add up the scores of these guys it looks like they shot down a significant percentage of the allied losses for the war. It's widely believed that in the quest for the Pour la Merite (Blue Max) German and Axis pilots would inflate their kills, or several pilots would be credited with the same kill...... Which is why the 'official' German tally of kills/losses in the Battle of Britain various so widely from the Allied one.

Having said that, there is absolutely no doubt that these were very brave and skilful pilots.
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Re: For you WW1 aviation history buffs...
« Reply #13 on: April 22, 2008, 09:42:53 AM »
Here's some ww2 stuff.

Hmmm. If you add up the scores of these guys it looks like they shot down a significant percentage of the allied losses for the war. It's widely believed that in the quest for the Pour la Merite (Blue Max) German and Axis pilots would inflate their kills, or several pilots would be credited with the same kill...... Which is why the 'official' German tally of kills/losses in the Battle of Britain various so widely from the Allied one.

Having said that, there is absolutely no doubt that these were very brave and skilful pilots.

The Luftwaffe Scoring System was probably the most accurate of the war.
Here is a good article on the subject.

http://www.xs4all.nl/%7Erhorta/jgscor.htm

Offline Terry in Australia

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Re: For you WW1 aviation history buffs...
« Reply #14 on: April 22, 2008, 05:48:41 PM »
Very cool Terry....

BTW Anzac holiday is this week in Ozzieland....Hats off to all the Kiwi and Australian Vets.

Thanks Tim, I'll be driving my dad to the Anzac Day "Dawn Service", (he was in the Royal Australian Air Force in WW2, and he'll be wearing my grandfathers WW1 medals too) we'll no doubt have a few beers afterwards, so It should be a great day! Cheers, Terry. ;D
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So I said, "Hey mate, you haven't got any bike boots you don't need, do you?"

"Crazy is a very misunderstood term, it's a fine line that some of us can lean over and still keep our balance" (thanks RB550Four)