Author Topic: complete rewire? other options?  (Read 2056 times)

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76 cb550

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complete rewire? other options?
« on: February 18, 2008, 01:48:54 PM »
allright, I looked in the headlight bucket last night and my heart sank a little...do you ever stop finding things to fix on these bikes?  I believe a total rewire of the entire bike is in order.   Just about every wire has exposed copper somewhere along the line.  The wiring harness has been spliced, taped, and heatshrunk in many places as well.  My question is what is my best option.  These are solutions I have considered.

1. Completely unwrap wiring harness, re-splice broken (and previously spliced) wires with connectors, then solder, and (What is the best insulation option for splices?)
shrink wrap, electrical tape, or JBweld.  Then Jbweld or electrical tape the sections that are just missing insulation.

2. Completely rewire the entire bike...
2a how much wire would i need
2b what gauge wire should i use
2c how many and what kind of connectors should I use
2d should I just buy a new wiring harness?  would it be cheaper?
2e how do you remove wires from connectors? like the plug that plugs into the headlamp?  What do you use to reattach new wire to these connectors?

I much prefer option 1 cause I'm poor...but there is a lot of damage to these wires. I believe everything works but a couple of the connections are broken right now so I can't check everything out until I replace a few connectors.

If these are simple questions that I should've found by searching give me a tip cause I searched and couldn't really find what I needed.

Offline TwoTired

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Re: complete rewire? other options?
« Reply #1 on: February 18, 2008, 01:53:25 PM »
Can you post  a pic of the damage that most concerns you?
Lloyd... (SOHC4 #11 Original Mail List)
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76 cb550

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Re: complete rewire? other options?
« Reply #2 on: February 18, 2008, 01:57:27 PM »
yeah no problem...brb

76 cb550

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Re: complete rewire? other options?
« Reply #3 on: February 18, 2008, 02:20:40 PM »
Head lamp



I jbwelded a couple wires to test out how it went.  Worked well...bulky though

I don't have a good wiring diagram yet but I think that this cloth wire is ground...it is FRIED

A splice that was insulated with duct tape...I replaced it with electrical weeks ago

A splice in the main line of the wiring harness...makes me nervous...several of these

Another pic of that ground...fried...crumbly wires

This is the right blinker i think...the PO didn't have enough wire (cut without measuring twice) so he just spliced in a 1 inch piece of wire...again he wrapped it in duct tape...I respliced that 1" wire and wrapped with electrical tape...really would like to replace this one

This is the wire under the seat...It's insulation is gone in a couple places...sorry for the poor quality

nother headlamp pic...there are a lot of breaks like this


I'll add in where everything is and comments shortly
« Last Edit: February 18, 2008, 02:36:11 PM by 76 cb550 »

Offline TwoTired

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Re: complete rewire? other options?
« Reply #4 on: February 18, 2008, 04:42:36 PM »
 Head lamp green wire is ground.
Yes, I can see the wire insulation damage.  That's from one of those damned pinch connectors.   >:(
I'd guess your bike had a fairing on it at one time.  However, what does the work is the wire inside the sheath. Examine the wire inside it for damage.  If the copper looks undamaged then simply coat the insulation with Liquid Tape, and sleep easy. 
http://www.caswellplating.com/aids/plastidip.html
If the internal strands have been cut, you can still save the wire and make it reliable.  But, it takes more work.  Unless the copper is tarnished, you can solder the bits back together and cover it with heat shrink tubing.  This can be done where wires aren't in an area that is flexing routinely.  If it is a short piece of wire, though, it may be easier to replace it.

Black taped wires are OK when the tape just provides insulation.  It is the integrity of the connections under it that bears scrutiny.  Is that solid and absent of corrosion? I'd prefer soldered slices under the tape.  Sometimes heat shrink can't fit over end connectors, and tape is a reasonable alternative.

Those yellow tapped green wires in the bundle were done by the factory.  You will probably find them soldered under the tape.  But, I'd leave those alone unless you find some continuity issues with test equipment.

The black globs on the Dark Blue and White wires appears to be a patch of the insulation, in the same vein as the repair I mention you could make on the green headlight wire.  The red heatshrink on the white wire splice could be over a soldered connection.  Try to bend the center of it if it is very flexible, If so, it's not soldered and needs a do over.  If it is stiff at the center and the heat shrink insulates it properly, it's only an asthetic issue with appearance, not function.  It will be hidden in the headlight bucket, so passers by shouldn't point and laugh. ;)

Nicks in insulation can be cleaned and patched reliably with that Liquid Tape product.  Especially address those black wires.  They carry +12v when the key switch is on.  If the internal wire touches frame material, the fuse usually goes.

I can't see that sleeved wire into the connector very well.  But, I suspect that's the battery or alternator power (red or red/white stripe)  It's important that has a good insulating coating.  If it has overheated, also check the block connector plastic for heat distortion and the terminals within for signs of heating/plating damage.  Those terminals should be clean and bright, BTW.

I've never seen woven insulation on turn sig wire for these Hondas.  Was that lamp cord?  I'd probably replace that!

So far, I don't see anything the warrants a whole harness replacement.  Though certainly there are things that need to be addressed.  However, if concours appearance is important to you, rather than just reliable function, then do replace that that offends you.

Cheers,
Lloyd... (SOHC4 #11 Original Mail List)
72 500, 74 550, 75 550K, 75 550F, 76 550F, 77 550F X2, 78 550K, 77 750F X2, 78 750F, 79CX500, 85 700SC, GL1100

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fuzzybutt

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Re: complete rewire? other options?
« Reply #5 on: February 18, 2008, 08:13:17 PM »
jb weld is conductive i believe, i know it can be used on parts to be powdercoated and it does stick to a magnet when dried.

kta

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Re: complete rewire? other options?
« Reply #6 on: February 18, 2008, 10:27:45 PM »
I would not use JBWeld for the reason noted above.

My recommendation would be to only replace the damaged sections. You can find spools of good wire from Harbor Freight or McMaster Carr (lots of other places too). I always use crimp connections with a plastic or rubber sheild. I don't like to shrink wrap over connections because if a problem arises I can't quickly inspect the connection. I rarely solder connections, but there are a few instances where it is a good idea.

Isn't there a company making reproduction harnesses for these bikes? I'm pretty sure I've seen them around.

76 cb550

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Re: complete rewire? other options?
« Reply #7 on: February 19, 2008, 01:37:50 AM »
Use J-B STIK as an adhesive, laminate, plug, filler, sealant, and electrical insulator. Squeeze out equal portions from the black and red tubes. Mix thoroughly. Clean surface to be bonded. Apply J-B STIK, and let it cure. That's all there is to it!

http://jbweld.net/products/jbstik.php

problems include

1.it's a little bulky
2.it's inflexible
3.it's permanent (can be good)
« Last Edit: February 19, 2008, 01:40:31 AM by 76 cb550 »

Offline TwoTired

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Re: complete rewire? other options?
« Reply #8 on: February 19, 2008, 03:39:01 AM »
The JB stik says it is steel reinforced.  Steel is a conductor.   Yeah, I know it says it's an insulator.  Just doesn't seem appropriate for electrical applications.
I've no experience with it, mind you.  Just my opinion.

Cheers,
Lloyd... (SOHC4 #11 Original Mail List)
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Those that learn from history are doomed to repeat it by those that don't learn from history.

Offline KB02

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Re: complete rewire? other options?
« Reply #9 on: February 19, 2008, 05:40:38 AM »
I don't know. With as much damage as you've got, I'd say look around and ttry to find a new wire harness. It will help eliminate the electrical demons that you don't even know about yet.
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76 cb550

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Re: complete rewire? other options?
« Reply #10 on: February 19, 2008, 07:00:48 AM »
Q: Will J-B Weld conduct electricity?

A: No. J-B Weld is not considered to be a conductor. It is an insulator.

Q: Is J-B Weld microwave safe?

A: Yes.
and purely for humor
Q: Is J-B Weld toxic?

A: No. J-B Weld is non-toxic. However, we do not recommend consuming the product.
wonder what would happen if you ate JB-weld

I don't think it's conductivity is an issue if you can put it in the microwave. 

So aside from the conductivity issue would jb weld be good for making permanent, water-proof?, connections around connected and soldered wires? I'd like to do this right so I'll probably go with the liquid tape idea for patching any more cracks or holes in insulation, but there are spots that are spliced that I'm planning on redoing and I'm wondering what would be more effective to insulate with. 

I'm probably gonna save up and buy a new wire harness...until then I'm gonna try to patch this one together and see how it goes.  I replaced the "lamp cord" with some good wire so that'll be ok.  If I see a wire with broken copper I'll either splice it very well and heat shrink it or just replace the wire.  If I have much trouble with broken wires I'll probably replace the whole thing.  Thanks
« Last Edit: February 19, 2008, 07:06:22 AM by 76 cb550 »

Offline fastbroshi

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Re: complete rewire? other options?
« Reply #11 on: April 29, 2008, 11:06:13 AM »
  Concerning that pic you have of the cloth covered wire that you think is a ground: I believe that runs back to the fuse block and the wire underneath is red. No need to wonder why it's fried looking at your fuse block.
  There is a green cloth covered green wire (obviously ground) up by the coils that's bolted to the frame. Wouldn't be a bad idea to unfasten it and clean it up while your cleaning the other electrical connectors.
  I agree with TT, those neon tape covered areas are factory soldered connections.  I was in the same boat as you when I saw mine, so I uncovered them to take a look as my ground was fried and was trying to track down clues. But they looked fine, they were solid, clean solders.  There's one on the main black wire going down the harness if I remember correctly.
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Offline cbass*gxc

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Re: complete rewire? other options?
« Reply #12 on: April 29, 2008, 11:20:14 AM »
Hey cb I have a complete harness for your bike that I would sell you for $20 plus shipping.  It would be a hell of alot easier than trying to rewire your entire bike not to mention it would probably cost less by the time you bought new wire and connectors.  If you are interested let me know.  I can snag some pics of it if you would like.

76 cb550

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Re: complete rewire? other options?
« Reply #13 on: April 29, 2008, 11:50:54 AM »
Thanks for the offer...I might take you up on that.  But I've already refurbished my harness and replaced the whole back of the bike in wires.  It seems to work so...I'll keep my fingers crossed that I did a good job and won't need to replace the whole harness.