Author Topic: Fiberglass Tanks and Ethanol  (Read 1437 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

350Four

  • Guest
Fiberglass Tanks and Ethanol
« on: April 24, 2008, 07:55:50 AM »
I read in the paper that ethanol blended gas is causing a lot of problems w/fiberglass tank. The ethanol dissolves some of the resins used to build the tank and gums up carbs, injectors and engines. Eventually liberated fiber clogs up all kinds of stuff, fuel lines, filters, et.al. California reports that many marine tanks are coming apart and leaking gas is causing significant problems at marinas. I don't have one but I've seen several posts (either here or over on the Caferacer forum) where people are using them. Check your tanks or avoid blend fuels if you have one. Just some info....

Offline kayaker43

  • Hot Shot
  • ***
  • Posts: 424
Re: Fiberglass Tanks and Ethanol
« Reply #1 on: April 24, 2008, 08:46:42 AM »
I will never buy gas with ethanol. People don't realize that they get less mileage with it and it doesn't save enough to be worth it.

The big issue has always been corrosion because ethanol absorbs water from the air, and it also attacks some rubbers. Modern stuff is designed to deal with this but old Hondas aren't

I remember when they called it Gasahol in the 80's and we had a lot of issues where it swelled the fuel lines and they slipped off the petcocks. The Honda OEM lines were good though.

I also heard that it attacks some resins, but I also hear that about octane boosters. Why risk any of those things to save 10 cents a gallon and get a few less MPG??

Offline Gregorymoto

  • SOHC Aficionado
  • Hot Shot
  • ***
  • Posts: 725
Re: Fiberglass Tanks and Ethanol
« Reply #2 on: April 24, 2008, 09:05:37 AM »
Use POR cream coat in your Fiberglass tank and forget about it.

Good luck
Yep, i have issues with this sort of stuff.

Offline JLeather

  • Expert
  • ****
  • Posts: 775
Re: Fiberglass Tanks and Ethanol
« Reply #3 on: April 24, 2008, 10:16:11 AM »
I will never buy gas with ethanol. People don't realize that they get less mileage with it and it doesn't save enough to be worth it.

He's not talking about E85, or Gasahol, he's talking about regular unleaded.  They changed over from MTBF to Ethanol as an additive to ALL gasoline for oxygenation.  Any gas that says "oxygenated" has some ethanol in it (and that's gonna pretty much be every pump in America).  It's as high as 10% in some places to get back to the same level of oxygen as the MTBF used to be, and that's significant enough to cause problems with some older fiberglass and older natural rubber (not silicone or neporene).

As far as E85 goes, I know a number of guys that drag race with it for several reasons.  Yes, it has less energy/volume.  This means that you have to open your jets up approximately 15% to avoid leaning out the gas.  Some would look at that and immediately state that you'll get poorer fuel mileage.  But if you DESIGN an engine for E85 you actually gain in several areas.  For starters, E85 is over 100 octane.  This allows you to run much more ignition advance for more horsepower (for the drag guys this is good).  Now, if you were designing a car to run E85 you could gear it lower to take advantage of the increase in horsepower, and overall you wouldn't lose any fuel mileage.  Also, E85 (and all alcohol in general) burns cooler making it further ideal for an engine that's running on the brink of overheating already (again, good for the racing guys).  And lastly, E85 greatly reduces emissions.

Should you all go out and buy a tank of E85?  No.  It takes money, effort, and careful planning to make a vehicle that runs on E85 well.  You need newer neporene lines and seals EVERYWHERE, a coated gas tank to resist the effects of water or alcohol, and a fuel system that doesn't contain pot metal.  I just wanted to clarify that E85 is not simply a crappy fuel source, and that it does not necessarily yield lower MPG.  In fact, Saab reported designing a car that ran on regular gas OR E85, and it actually got better mileage and more horsepower out of the E85.  The way they accomplished this was that the car sensed when it had E85 and it cranked up the boost pressure from the turbo, taking advantage of the cooler-burning and higher-octane of the alcohol fuel, to yield more horsepower which allowed the transmission to upshift faster and remain at a lower rpm.

The issue of food vs. fuel, however, is for another more political debate.  Fact of this thread is that ethanol is in ALL pump gas now, and for some machines that means you have some modifications to make.

Offline dusterdude

  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 8,487
Re: Fiberglass Tanks and Ethanol
« Reply #4 on: April 24, 2008, 12:02:32 PM »
there are a lot of dual fuel vehicles available nowadays
mark
1972 k1 750
1949 fl panhead
1 1/2 gl1100 goldwings
1998 cbr600 f3

Offline hahnda

  • lskdfhs;dljksa;
  • Hot Shot
  • ***
  • Posts: 409
Re: Fiberglass Tanks and Ethanol
« Reply #5 on: April 24, 2008, 12:47:50 PM »
I went back and forth between this one http://www.hirschauto.com/sealer.htm and http://www.caswellplating.com/aids/epoxygas.htm

I ended up ordering the hirsch. Haven't used it yet but have read good stuff about it.
Kevin
CB750K4 in pieces
CB750K3 with F trim
CB750K7
CB500 Cafe Project
CB750 Cafe

Offline benmanuel

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 16
    • The continuing CB400F project
Re: Fiberglass Tanks and Ethanol
« Reply #6 on: April 24, 2008, 01:15:20 PM »
Ethanol is also contributing to the world food shortages and prices rising, please don't support it!

Offline hahnda

  • lskdfhs;dljksa;
  • Hot Shot
  • ***
  • Posts: 409
Re: Fiberglass Tanks and Ethanol
« Reply #7 on: April 24, 2008, 01:18:04 PM »
When I pull into the pumps here in WI most of the times all grades of gasoline can have up to 10% of ethanol blended in. Sometimes premium does not. I don't have much choice anymore.
Kevin
CB750K4 in pieces
CB750K3 with F trim
CB750K7
CB500 Cafe Project
CB750 Cafe

Offline markb

  • When I finish my current project I might be a
  • Master
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,615
Re: Fiberglass Tanks and Ethanol
« Reply #8 on: April 24, 2008, 03:20:56 PM »
I don't know about other states but you can find non-oxygenated fuel quite easily in Minnesota.  The Minnesota Street Rod Association has a list of hundreds of stations where it is available. 
http://www.msra.com/NonOxygenatedFuel/NonOxyList03.01.08.pdf
I'd be surprised if this wasn't true elsewhere too.  I use it for my CB750.

Mark
1969 CB750 sandcast #97 restored - Sold Restoration thread link
1969 CB750 sandcaxt #576 - Sold
1969 CB750 sandcast #1553 - Sold
1969 CB750 sandcast #1990 - Sold
1969 CB750 sandcast #5383 restored - Sold Restoration thread link
1970 CB750 K0 restored - Sold
2010 H-D Tri Glide Ultra Classic (Huh?)

Steelo

  • Guest
Re: Fiberglass Tanks and Ethanol
« Reply #9 on: April 24, 2008, 04:36:35 PM »
I was listening to a fuel tanker driver here on talk back radio saying that all the trucks with compartments containing ethanol have major problems with seals deteriorating. His advice was to never put it in your vehicle!! all the major car companies were dead against ethanol a year or two ago predicting same problems - they have suddenly gone quiet on the topic.

Offline kayaker43

  • Hot Shot
  • ***
  • Posts: 424
Re: Fiberglass Tanks and Ethanol
« Reply #10 on: April 24, 2008, 05:21:23 PM »
Ethanol is a great race fuel but when you throw some percentage in a vehicle that wasn't tuned for it it will get less mpg. I read its 27% less energy density than gasoline but the low percentage they use only results in about 3-4% less energy per gallon. I don't doubt you can optimize for it, but realisticly no one does. The corrosion and rubber issues are enough reason to avoid it as long as possible for use in vintage bikes.

I'm sure its a regional thing, around here its pretty easy to avoid,.. at least for now? The pumps have to post it but they try to hide the sticker way down low or on the side. I can always tell by the price, if a station is cheaper then its neighbors it always has 10% ethanol in it.
« Last Edit: April 24, 2008, 05:24:01 PM by kayaker43 »