Topic: 67mm Henry Abe piston ring instalation questions

[fang]

Hello all.
For My 67 Henry Abe Piston kit, I have some questions about the piston rings.   My kit did not come with ann instructions regarding piston rings.  Fist, I have these pistons:

(Thank you Axle for the picture.)

The rings have two top rings and a 3-piece oil ring.  Here are my questions:
1.  With the top two rings, which one goes on top?  I am assuming that the top of each ring is stamped.  Both rings have a small "T" stamped near the gap on one side, so that probably is the top side.  But I am not 100% sure about which one is the top ring.  One ring is a L-profile ring, and I am assuming this is the bottom ring.  Any thoughts or comments?

2.  The 3-piece oil rings.  Any tips on assembling these?  I thought that the ends were supposed to lock together somehow, but they don't look like they can do this.  Any thoughts or comments on this?

I will do my best to take and post some pictures of the piston rings ASAP.

Thank you!
Peace and grease
-fang
 

[Big Jay]

You didn't show the rings, but I would guess that one of the top rings is black, and one is chrome, kind of a dull silver color. If so, the chrome ring goes on top.  The small T faces up in the motor

[Jerry Rxman Griffin aka MuthaF'er]

Fang,

Glad to see you're back at the 900 again. My NOS Henry Abe kit like your's has 1 piece oil rings. The rings are in induividual packaging with HA-67 STD labeling. Wish I had your 3 piece rings! Stagger the gaps in the 3 pieces when you install them. You will have a gap in each of the 3 pieces. I believe you are supposed to install the middle ring then the outer rings. Who did you get to do the cylinders and how much did they charge you?

Jerry

[Big Jay]

The clearances on those Abe instructions are way too loose for the 900 (890) kit.

Jay

[Gamma]

These Wiseco instructions might be of use to you, particularly for the oil ring.
(Although the 'engine front' label on illustration 1 looks wrong).
http://i192.photobucket.com/albums/z293/galaxy8155/WisecoRings2.jpg[/img]]

[Gamma]

http://i192.photobucket.com/albums/z293/galaxy8155/WisecoRings1.jpg[/img]]

[Jerry Rxman Griffin aka MuthaF'er]

The clearances on those Abe instructions are way too loose for the 900 (890) kit.

Jay

Jay,

Those are the instructions that came in my NOS kit. They do seem loose to me also but I'd always thought that 70's tech might need to be different that today's tech. What would you recommend the clearances be bored to using those nos 70's cast pistons? Using their .001" (from the range of .001 to .0015) per inch of piston it actually comes out to .00263".

Jerry

[Jerry Rxman Griffin aka MuthaF'er]

Gamma,

Any way you could rotate those scans?

We need those added to the FAQ or other appropriate library on this site. Any moderators or Glenn out there that might make this happen?

[Andoo]

I would put that kit on a shelf and keep it as a token. Buy a set of forged wisco pistons and enjoy the performance and reliability.

[Gamma]

Here we are.
http://i192.photobucket.com/albums/z293/galaxy8155/WisecoRings1-1.jpg[/img]]

[Gamma]

[fang]

Here is the piston ring's "L-profile" which I was mentioning earlier.  Sorry no pictures of the piston rings at the moment.  It was late and I was motivated, so I went ahead, made an educated guess and just buttoned the motor up last night.  Since the piston rings are currently hidden somewhere up inside the motor, it is easier to just draw an approximation of what I remember it looks like.  However, for the life of me, I can't remember which side of the ring was the top.     Was the mark on the grooved or ungrooved side?  Either way, I know I put the marked side on top.  Both of the top rings are marked/stamped "T" for top.  Here is the picture:


This ring is a dull iron color.  The other ring was shiny black with chrome outer edges.  This does not look like a top ring to me so I put it in as the second ring.  IF I got it wrong, then whatever.  I'll just pop them out and swap them, but we all know that will be easier with the motor still on the bench.

To put this all in perspective, you might ask, "why the big rush?"  Well, I'm motivated... and I have a deadline.  Several months ago I made an agreement with my amazing wife:  If the bike is not together by the end of May I have to sell it all, as is, probably just for parts, and I don't want to do that.  There is more to it than just that, but you will have to trust me that this was a good/fair/generous deal.  I now have only a few days to keep my end of it!

So, last night I stayed up late and buttoned up the motor and bench set the timing.  It took a few hours, but now it is more or less ready to go, assuming the piston rings are not in backwards.  Early on, before I started getting tired, I shot a quick picture of me torquing my con rods, plastigauging the new bearings for clearance.  Happily they (and the crank bearings) all are a very perfect 0.0009" - 0.0012".  It is a good feeling to jump head first in to a well-planned, long anticipated project and have it start off so well.


Here is the motor as I left it last night:


There is still a lot to do, but this was a good place/time to stop and go to bed.

SO, WHAT DO YOU THINK ABOUT THAT PISTON RING?  I put it in as ring #2.

Peace and grease
-fang

[Gamma]

I'd have put the shiny black one with chrome edges on top position and the one you've drawn, in position 2.
Also don't overlap the corrugated oil ring.

This just my opinion, hopefully others will comment.

[fang]

+1.  That is exactly what I did.
-fang

[Big Jay]

That was correct.

[Big Jay]

The clearances on those Abe instructions are way too loose for the 900 (890) kit.

Jay

Jay,

Those are the instructions that came in my NOS kit. They do seem loose to me also but I'd always thought that 70's tech might need to be different that today's tech. What would you recommend the clearances be bored to using those nos 70's cast pistons? Using their .001" (from the range of .001 to .0015) per inch of piston it actually comes out to .00263".

Jerry

I have set those up at ./0015 to .002" Never a problem Some of those kits had one piece oil rings, and those loose tolerances are asking a lot from that ring to control oil when the piston is rocking in the bore.

[Jerry Rxman Griffin aka MuthaF'er]

Jay,

My kit has the 1 piece rings but the intent is to ship the pistons off to Total Seal to have them cut for 3 piece rings as I did for the 1080 pistons. Thanks for the clearance info too. What will it take to get you guys to resleeve, etc for the 900 pistons considering I have the sleeves in the kit?

[Big Jay]

http://www.aperaceparts.com/machining.html

[Jerry Rxman Griffin aka MuthaF'er]

http://www.aperaceparts.com/machining.html

Jay,

Would this need only the LC250 & LC150 procedures?

Thanks again,
Jerry

[MRieck]

http://www.aperaceparts.com/machining.html

Jay,

Would this need only the LC250 & LC150 procedures?

Thanks again,
Jerry

I'll chime in....yes Jerry

[fang]

Hijacked!   

-fang

[Jerry Rxman Griffin aka MuthaF'er]

How's the bike coming Fang? 

[fang]

Time to wake up the ghost!  I kind of stalled out on this motor.  He he he.

It turns out that I pinched one of the 3-piece oil rings as I assembled the thing (it was late at night).  This created two problems:
1.  It ruined the oil ring
2.  It damaged the piston -- But I did not realize this until MUCH later.

When I realized I damaged the ring I went on a search for a replacement set of rings.  When I finally found a set I bought them and was sad to see they had the big fat single piece oil rings.... Oh well.  That was a few months ago.

When I went to assemble the motor two or three weeks ago I gave everything a thorough inspection and discovered that when the oil ring got pinched it actually broke the metal of the piston.  About a 1.5" length of metal came off from between the rings.  A picture would be easier to see, but the piston metal "rib" between the oil ring and the middle ring came off.

I was VERY saddened by this.

But I also was pretty motivated.  So I went through boxes of stuff and found a set of old cylinders and a set of pistons and rings, cleaned it all up, and carefully measured it all.  I eventually found a set that would work together, and I put the 900cc big bore motor together with a set of stock 736cc pistons and cylinders, with a stock cam too.

So that is that for now.  The bike is running strong, but is blowing a TON of smoke.  DANG!  I guess I need a replacement Henry Abe 67mm piston ASAP.  Until then, I guess I will continue to drive the bike a little, hoping the smoke will magically just go away.

peace and grease,
-fang

[Jerry Rxman Griffin aka MuthaF'er]

Welcome back. Your Abe pistons are the same as mine but mine came with the 1 piece oil rings. Wish we could ID your 3 piece rings to get replacements however I know you now need another piston too. That really sucks. All else fails I will have the pistons cut and fitted with 3 piece rings before assembly.

[paulages]

Time to wake up the ghost!  I kind of stalled out on this motor.  He he he.

It turns out that I pinched one of the 3-piece oil rings as I assembled the thing (it was late at night).  This created two problems:
1.  It ruined the oil ring
2.  It damaged the piston -- But I did not realize this until MUCH later.

When I realized I damaged the ring I went on a search for a replacement set of rings.  When I finally found a set I bought them and was sad to see they had the big fat single piece oil rings.... Oh well.  That was a few months ago.

When I went to assemble the motor two or three weeks ago I gave everything a thorough inspection and discovered that when the oil ring got pinched it actually broke the metal of the piston.  About a 1.5" length of metal came off from between the rings.  A picture would be easier to see, but the piston metal "rib" between the oil ring and the middle ring came off.

I was VERY saddened by this.

But I also was pretty motivated.  So I went through boxes of stuff and found a set of old cylinders and a set of pistons and rings, cleaned it all up, and carefully measured it all.  I eventually found a set that would work together, and I put the 900cc big bore motor together with a set of stock 736cc pistons and cylinders, with a stock cam too.

So that is that for now.  The bike is running strong, but is blowing a TON of smoke.  DANG!  I guess I need a replacement Henry Abe 67mm piston ASAP.  Until then, I guess I will continue to drive the bike a little, hoping the smoke will magically just go away.

peace and grease,
-fang

very sad to hear about the piston damage. for future reference, the tech dept. at hastings has been very helpful to me helping match single rings from a broken set. i forget the lady's name, but call over there with your specs and she'll help you find the right ring if they make anything like it. guess it doesn't do you much good with a damaged piston though.