Author Topic: Are you running 60/55w halogen bulbs?  (Read 2818 times)

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Steelo

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Are you running 60/55w halogen bulbs?
« on: November 03, 2007, 05:00:22 am »
If so how did you overcome the power drain?

My voltmeter shows a slow steady battery drain at high or low revs with lights on.

As soon as they are off the battery charges again.

Offline Steve F

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Re: Are you running 60/55w halogen bulbs?
« Reply #1 on: November 03, 2007, 05:36:25 am »
By keeping the revs above 3000 should keep the battery up, no problem.  But with extended idling, a mis adjusted voltage regulator, or corroded battery connections could all play into the scene.  If you check all of these things, you should be ok on a 750.  Make sure the electrolyte level in the battery is up, and that the battery isn't too far gone to accept and hold a charge.  Check the specific gravity of the electrolyte to be sure.
What I did was change over to LED's as much as I can, which freed up maybe (I'm guessing here so don't bust my nuts) 40 to 50 watts of electricity.  That also allowed me to go with the DYNA 3 ohm coils too.  ;D  LED's in all the running lights, turn signals, tail light, idiot lights saved a bunch of current.

Offline nteek754

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Re: Are you running 60/55w halogen bulbs?
« Reply #2 on: November 03, 2007, 06:55:07 am »
Ok here is one for you all. I put 1157 sockets in the rear of my 73 750K and wired them  as tail and brake lights along with the stock tail and brake. So when I put my brake on and of coarse all three light come on it will dim my head light not so bad that I dont ride at night, but it just dont seem right. Do you supose my regulator needs to be readjusted? Oh I am running a stock sealed beam up front. I tried an H 4 with a 65/100 watt  but riding beside my sisters stock 74 750 her light was brighter than mine grrrrrr. any heads up welcome Craig in Maine
seven fifty four ever its not the destination its the journey Ive been collecting these old dinasours for 33 years . they are quite an ICON

Offline DarkRider

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Re: Are you running 60/55w halogen bulbs?
« Reply #3 on: November 03, 2007, 06:59:36 am »
Wouldnt adding a relay help the performance a bit? Give the light a direct line of power straight from the battery. This should help the work load on stock wiring as well with the higher wattage bulbs..
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Offline johnny

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Re: Are you running 60/55w halogen bulbs?
« Reply #4 on: November 03, 2007, 07:42:32 am »
I've been continually attempting to improve the notoriously poor charging system on my '74 CB350F.
So far, I have installed a new voltage regulator from Oregon Motorcycle Parts:
http://www.oregonmotorcycleparts.com/index.html
I installed a 3 watt Luxeon tail/brake light from Super Bright LED's:
http://superbrightleds.com/led_prods.htm
I installed a 35 watt halogen headlight assembly from Candle Power:
http://candlepower.com/
I also installed a new factory stator.
This is in addition to cleaning all electrical connections.
So far, the improvements are working. With the headlight off, I get a gradual charge at idle - which increases at higher RPM's.
I'm still concerned if I ran the headlight continuously in stop and go Chicago traffic, I would eventually drain the battery. Since most of my driving is inner city, I'm still working on improving.
Sorry about hijacking the thread. I just thought some of these options may also work for you.
Good luck!


1976 CB550K
1974 CB350F http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=81781.0
1974 CB550K
1972 CB350 Twin
1965 Lambretta
196(?) Honda S90
1975 Ford Bronco

Offline super pasty white guy

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Re: Are you running 60/55w halogen bulbs?
« Reply #5 on: November 03, 2007, 08:01:35 am »
Halogen for me too-  no problems.  LEDs for the instrument/idiot lights and a 3/5w luxeon in the tail.  Installed automotive electronic regulator and new full wave bridge rectifier, though I don't think that probably made much of a difference.  Regardless of whether I do my commute through the city or on the freeway, I always come home with a full battery. 

Most important is to make sure to clean every contact on the bike really well and use dielectric grease when re-assembling.

Dave
Fruit don't talk, fruit just listens... and waits.

Offline TwoTired

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Re: Are you running 60/55w halogen bulbs?
« Reply #6 on: November 03, 2007, 08:08:57 am »
Measure the voltage at the headlight, and immediately measure the battery voltage and do a comparision.  How much voltage difference did you find?

Do the exact same thing between the white and green at the Vreg as well as the Black and green same location. How much voltage difference did you find?

Cheers,
Lloyd... (SOHC4 #11 Original Mail List)
72 500, 74 550, 75 550K, 75 550F, 76 550F, 77 550F X2, 78 550K, 77 750F X2, 78 750F, 79CX500, 85 700SC, GL1100

Those that learn from history are doomed to repeat it by those that don't learn from history.

Offline Jim F

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Re: Are you running 60/55w halogen bulbs?
« Reply #7 on: November 03, 2007, 08:32:42 am »
you can also replace the regulator/rectifier with an updated version made
by this company

http://www.cyclewareables.com/pages/stator_electrix/electrix_stators.htm
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Offline steam-powered man

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Re: Are you running 60/55w halogen bulbs?
« Reply #8 on: November 03, 2007, 12:27:52 pm »
have the h4 halogen bulb conversion:  12.08v at 1100idle, 13.33+ everywhere else.  no power drain/issues.   

voltage was originally a little low, cleaned all connections, improved.  adjusted v reg up just a tad and also sanded/cleaned the rectifier base.  has been perfect w/no problems except slow left blinker.  cleaned connections a third/forth time - no go.  installed napa $2.79 round flasher - fixed.   
bobp   
searching for a dr350se

Offline gerhed

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Re: Are you running 60/55w halogen bulbs?
« Reply #9 on: November 03, 2007, 02:03:50 pm »
I run a 25 watt 12volt auto dome light bulb--No battery drain !
Rides: 75 CB750F, 48 Indian Chief, 67 Triumph TR6, 63Honda CA95
          83 XL600R in CB360 Frame
          3-wheel electric tilting cycle

Steelo

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Re: Are you running 60/55w halogen bulbs?
« Reply #10 on: November 03, 2007, 09:12:16 pm »
Measure the voltage at the headlight, and immediately measure the battery voltage and do a comparision.  How much voltage difference did you find?

Do the exact same thing between the white and green at the Vreg as well as the Black and green same location. How much voltage difference did you find?

Cheers,

At 4000rpm
Voltage at headlight connection headlight removed 14.5v but appeared to be slowly dropping
Voltage at battery 14.7v but appeared to be slowly dropping
Voltage regulator
White Green 9.5v
White Black 4v

What do you interpret from that "Oh Wise Ones"?
« Last Edit: November 03, 2007, 09:18:03 pm by Steelo »

Offline TwoTired

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Re: Are you running 60/55w halogen bulbs?
« Reply #11 on: November 04, 2007, 12:54:54 am »
At 4000rpm
Voltage at headlight connection headlight removed 14.5v but appeared to be slowly dropping
It is important to have the headlight on while making this measurement (and Vreg measurements), as current flow will make voltage losses in the connectors/ switches prominent.

Voltage at battery 14.7v but appeared to be slowly dropping
Voltage regulator
White Green 9.5v
White Black 4v

What do you interpret from that "Oh Wise Ones"?

The important Black to Green measurement was omitted.  By inference, I guess the Vreg black and green have 13.5V on it during this test.  About a volt lower than the battery. (So the wiring is lying to the regulator about what the battery voltage really is.)  The regulator is passing 9.5 to the alternator coil and telling it to reduce charging power.   However, if the headlight causes the Black wire voltage to drop, then the Vreg will "think" the battery is low and tell the alternator to make more power.

I'm surprised you removed the headlight.  Wasn't your previous complaint while the headlight was operational?  We're going to need numbers from operation in "failure mode".
Or, leave the headlight disconnected...   ;D

Cheers,
Lloyd... (SOHC4 #11 Original Mail List)
72 500, 74 550, 75 550K, 75 550F, 76 550F, 77 550F X2, 78 550K, 77 750F X2, 78 750F, 79CX500, 85 700SC, GL1100

Those that learn from history are doomed to repeat it by those that don't learn from history.

Steelo

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Re: Are you running 60/55w halogen bulbs?
« Reply #12 on: November 04, 2007, 04:15:48 am »
Here are results

Headlight on measured at connection 11.2v
Battery 12.2

Regulator Black Green 11.6v

Hope that helps

Offline TwoTired

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Re: Are you running 60/55w halogen bulbs?
« Reply #13 on: November 04, 2007, 02:12:14 pm »
Here are results

Headlight on measured at connection 11.2v
Battery 12.2

Regulator Black Green 11.6v

Hope that helps
I suspect you may be giving me voltage readings under different engine run conditions.  And, that will throw the following analysis off base.  Here is an analysis summary if you don't wish to read the technical justification below.  Clean all your connectors and switch contacts on your bike, and you should be able to live with the bigger headlight.  You will also find that you new or old headlight is far brighter than you can see now.

1 - A 12.2Volt battery is not fully charged.
2 - You are losing 1 Volt between battery and headlight. 
A 55 Watt headlight rated at 12.8 volts would have a filament resistance of 2.98 ohms. (P/E = I, E/I= R, or)
Feeding 11.2 Volts to it will make it behave as a 42 watt bulb drawing only 3.75 Amps. (E/R = I,  I*E=P)

The entire headlight circuit is drawing 3.75 Amps, so a 1 Volt drop in wiring, connectors and switches, between power source and H/L means there is an extra 2.66 ohms in those pathway components. (E/I = R) comsuming an extra 3.75 Watts.

Where's the resistance?
A quick online search found that 18 ga wire has a resistance of about .006 ohms per foot.  Even if there were 10 feet of wire between battery and H/L that contribution should only be .06 Ohms.
That leaves connector terminal resistance and and switch contact resistance.   When new, these contacts have a resistance of about 0.01 ohms for each contact.  However, unless the contacts are made of noble metals, they begin to oxidize (for the connectors) and carbonize, in the case of current carrying switch contacts that flash when making/breaking a circuit.
You can count the connections in the path between H/L and battery.  But, assuming there were ten of each (20 total), that would only be 0.2 ohms, for a total circuit resistance when new of about 0.26 ohms.  Your bike has demonstrated ten times the expected resistance. It is unlikely it is limited to just the headlight circuits, it is more likely endemic to the entire bike.  Find the bad connections and fix them.

Your charging system:
If your regulator is seeing 11.6 V across Black and green, it should believe that your battery is low and needs all the power the alternator can make.  It should pass every bit of the voltage from the Black to the white wire which drives the alternator field strength.  In an earlier report you indicated the regulator was seeing 13.5 volts at its input (battery near full) and the regulator was passing all but 4 volts to the alternator field (and rightly so).  The less voltage delivered to the alternator, the less power it makes.  The voltage regulator can't pass any more than it receives from the black wire.  If that voltage is low, as in your latest reported case, then the alternator output will be correspondingly low.  The very same connector and switch resistance that dim the headlight from low voltage, also diminishes alternator output.  If the connectors and switches are wasting 10 percent of the energy produced by the alternator as heat, the alternator peak output effectively diminishes from 210 watts peak to 190 Watts peak.  If the voltage being delivered to the regulator is 10% low, then the alternator real output diminishes 10%, making it an effective 170 watt capability.  Adding more wattage for lighting, also diverts the effective output for charging the battery, and you will have to spend more time in the higher RPM band to have a hope of achieving battery restoration.

Good luck on your repair efforts!

Cheers,



Lloyd... (SOHC4 #11 Original Mail List)
72 500, 74 550, 75 550K, 75 550F, 76 550F, 77 550F X2, 78 550K, 77 750F X2, 78 750F, 79CX500, 85 700SC, GL1100

Those that learn from history are doomed to repeat it by those that don't learn from history.

scadaman29325

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Re: Are you running 60/55w halogen bulbs?
« Reply #14 on: May 07, 2008, 06:29:45 am »
Halogen for me too-  no problems.  LEDs for the instrument/idiot lights and a 3/5w luxeon in the tail.  Installed automotive electronic regulator and new full wave bridge rectifier, though I don't think that probably made much of a difference.  Regardless of whether I do my commute through the city or on the freeway, I always come home with a full battery. 

Most important is to make sure to clean every contact on the bike really well and use dielectric grease when re-assembling.

Dave


Yeah, it's been a while since this last post of this thread (that search button is amazing).

Super Pasty (if you are still hanging around this forum), where did you get the 3/5 wat Luxeon?

TIA, Phil

Offline gerhed

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Re: Are you running 60/55w halogen bulbs?
« Reply #15 on: May 07, 2008, 06:49:22 am »
If so how did you overcome the power drain?

My voltmeter shows a slow steady battery drain at high or low revs with lights on.

As soon as they are off the battery charges again.
I run a 25 watt auto dome light--no drain.
Rides: 75 CB750F, 48 Indian Chief, 67 Triumph TR6, 63Honda CA95
          83 XL600R in CB360 Frame
          3-wheel electric tilting cycle

Offline super pasty white guy

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Re: Are you running 60/55w halogen bulbs?
« Reply #16 on: May 07, 2008, 08:06:43 am »
Still here.

They've changed the style, but the 5w LED is available from here:
http://www.superbrightleds.com/tail-brake-turn.html

This version looks to have a 3w luxeon with additional surface mount leds, mine's just a single 5w luxeon.

spwg
Fruit don't talk, fruit just listens... and waits.