Author Topic: My long-overdue Spark Advancer post...  (Read 18593 times)

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Offline 72 yellow

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Re: My long-overdue Spark Advancer post...
« Reply #50 on: December 24, 2014, 06:47:30 PM »
Am I correct the springs are $28.00 U.S. ? 

Offline Jerry Rxman Griffin aka MuthaF'er

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Re: My long-overdue Spark Advancer post...
« Reply #51 on: December 24, 2014, 09:08:42 PM »
Jerry,

Will those springs work for my 1976 K6????
I still have the original springs in mine, but will be going through the engine soon to get it running again.

If they will work, I'd be interested.

Charlie

Charlie,

I would assume they will FIT. How they would work compared to your old stock springs I can not say. How about is we get Hondaman's thoughts on that?! Mark, you out there?

This is the only info posted on Yamiya. HONDA CB750 RACING GOVERNOR SPRING    3,000 JPY
(24.93 USD)

That $24.93 is TODAY'S exchange rate.
As of today 3/13/2012 my original owner 75 CB750F has made it through 3 wives, er EX-wives. Free at last.  ;-)

Offline Jerry Rxman Griffin aka MuthaF'er

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Re: My long-overdue Spark Advancer post...
« Reply #52 on: December 24, 2014, 09:39:43 PM »
PeWe,

I have a feeling that those 2 inexpensive springs are going to cost you a bunch. May as well fill up a box which is what I'm going to do WITHOUT the springs unless someone here in the States wants me to add some to my order also for them.

Hey, Jerry: I am about to finish up a K5 that the owner would like the 4-4 pipes from Yamiya (maybe). I'll ask: if so, I'll contact you about it and maybe we can do something about the shipping?

Mark,

Just checked, the 'no number' repro $1375 K0-K6 pipes are sold out. You can get NOS 341 for ~ $2500. Anything else? Primaries are $51.54 a set and they have tensioners at $75.23. Mains are $8.64. Didn't look at anything other than engine stuff. My order will be $300 - $400 as is and not sure about shipping yet.
As of today 3/13/2012 my original owner 75 CB750F has made it through 3 wives, er EX-wives. Free at last.  ;-)

Offline HondaMan

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Re: My long-overdue Spark Advancer post...
« Reply #53 on: December 24, 2014, 09:58:12 PM »
PeWe,

I have a feeling that those 2 inexpensive springs are going to cost you a bunch. May as well fill up a box which is what I'm going to do WITHOUT the springs unless someone here in the States wants me to add some to my order also for them.

Hey, Jerry: I am about to finish up a K5 that the owner would like the 4-4 pipes from Yamiya (maybe). I'll ask: if so, I'll contact you about it and maybe we can do something about the shipping?

Mark,

Just checked, the 'no number' repro $1375 K0-K6 pipes are sold out. You can get NOS 341 for ~ $2500. Anything else? Primaries are $51.54 a set and they have tensioners at $75.23. Mains are $8.64. Didn't look at anything other than engine stuff. My order will be $300 - $400 as is and not sure about shipping yet.

I just emailed to the guy about those NOS HM341 pipes. Last we talked, he really wanted 4-4, so I'll find out how much he really does, or not? He had some old Jardine 4-2, but in bad shape altogether.
See SOHC4shop@gmail.com for info about the gadgets I make for these bikes.

The demons are repulsed when a man does good. Use that.
Blood is thicker than water, but motor oil is thicker yet...so, don't mess with my SOHC4, or I might have to hurt you.
Hondaman's creed: "Bikers are family. Treat them accordingly."

Link to Hondaman Ignition: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=67543.0

Link to My CB750 Book: https://www.lulu.com/search?adult_audience_rating=00&page=1&pageSize=10&q=my+cb750+book

Link to website: www.SOHC4shop.com

Offline PeWe

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Re: My long-overdue Spark Advancer post...
« Reply #54 on: December 25, 2014, 02:31:34 AM »
The No numbers 4-4 are available on other sites too.
I wanted no numbers 4-4 more than OEM HM341 when they are (old style K0 HM300) more open and hopefully better for my 836+ported head + cam.

I ordered the springs from yamiya (+ center stand needed with 4-4 on X-mas eve). I'll compare them with the modified springs I use now (cut1/2 turn, full advance at ~2700 rpm).
I need new washers keeping the weights.
-Any hints which to use?
CB750 K6-76  970cc (Earlier 1005cc JMR Billet block on the shelf waiting for a comeback)
CB750 K2-75 Parts assembled to a stock K2

Updates of the CB750 K6 -1976
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,180468.msg2092136.html#msg2092136
The billet block build thread
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,49438.msg1863571.html#msg1863571
CB750 K2 -1975  build thread
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,168243.msg1948381.html#msg1948381
K2 engine build thread. For a complete CB750 -75
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,180088.msg2088008.html#msg2088008
Carb jetting, a long story Mikuni TMR32
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,179479.msg2104967.html#msg2104967

Offline PeWe

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CB750 K6-76  970cc (Earlier 1005cc JMR Billet block on the shelf waiting for a comeback)
CB750 K2-75 Parts assembled to a stock K2

Updates of the CB750 K6 -1976
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,180468.msg2092136.html#msg2092136
The billet block build thread
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,49438.msg1863571.html#msg1863571
CB750 K2 -1975  build thread
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,168243.msg1948381.html#msg1948381
K2 engine build thread. For a complete CB750 -75
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,180088.msg2088008.html#msg2088008
Carb jetting, a long story Mikuni TMR32
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,179479.msg2104967.html#msg2104967

Offline scottly

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Re: My long-overdue Spark Advancer post...
« Reply #56 on: December 26, 2014, 06:11:18 PM »
Jerry,

Will those springs work for my 1976 K6????
I still have the original springs in mine, but will be going through the engine soon to get it running again.

If they will work, I'd be interested.

Charlie

Charlie,

I would assume they will FIT. How they would work compared to your old stock springs I can not say. How about is we get Hondaman's thoughts on that?! Mark, you out there?

This is the only info posted on Yamiya. HONDA CB750 RACING GOVERNOR SPRING    3,000 JPY
(24.93 USD)

That $24.93 is TODAY'S exchange rate.
Hey Jerry, I didn't realize they were that expensive. If you haven't placed the order yet, don't order the springs for me. Sorry..
Don't fix it if it ain't broke!
Helmets save brains. Always wear one and ride like everyone is trying to kill you....

Offline Jerry Rxman Griffin aka MuthaF'er

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Re: My long-overdue Spark Advancer post...
« Reply #57 on: December 26, 2014, 06:59:28 PM »
How's that for timing. Placed the order at 5:34pm yesterday and they were shipped 5 hours later. BUTTTTTT.... someone just PM'd me wanting some. Told him to get in touch with you and let me know. Now I know....

They will probably be here next week so I'll hold them for OldHatt45.
As of today 3/13/2012 my original owner 75 CB750F has made it through 3 wives, er EX-wives. Free at last.  ;-)

Offline scottly

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Re: My long-overdue Spark Advancer post...
« Reply #58 on: December 26, 2014, 07:13:42 PM »
 ;D ;D
Don't fix it if it ain't broke!
Helmets save brains. Always wear one and ride like everyone is trying to kill you....

Offline PeWe

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Re: My long-overdue Spark Advancer post...
« Reply #59 on: December 27, 2014, 03:07:08 AM »
I'm very curious about the spring rate of Yamiya springs. I'll check where full advance will happen compared with my old Honda K6 modified springs.
« Last Edit: December 27, 2014, 03:10:58 AM by PeWe »
CB750 K6-76  970cc (Earlier 1005cc JMR Billet block on the shelf waiting for a comeback)
CB750 K2-75 Parts assembled to a stock K2

Updates of the CB750 K6 -1976
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,180468.msg2092136.html#msg2092136
The billet block build thread
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,49438.msg1863571.html#msg1863571
CB750 K2 -1975  build thread
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,168243.msg1948381.html#msg1948381
K2 engine build thread. For a complete CB750 -75
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,180088.msg2088008.html#msg2088008
Carb jetting, a long story Mikuni TMR32
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,179479.msg2104967.html#msg2104967

Offline KRONUS0100

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Re: My long-overdue Spark Advancer post...
« Reply #60 on: December 27, 2014, 05:58:26 AM »
pics or info on a correct 78 750f3 motor spark advancer??
thanks
MATT
current bikes:  1976 CB750F, 1981 GS1100E
bikes owned:1981 GL1100I, 1990 GS500E, 1981 GS850, 1977 and 1979 GS750, 1974 CB750, 1975 CB750, and a 1982 GS750E

Offline HondaMan

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Re: My long-overdue Spark Advancer post...
« Reply #61 on: December 27, 2014, 08:11:25 PM »
pics or info on a correct 78 750f3 motor spark advancer??
thanks

Most of the ones I've seen on the F2/3 are the -323- type. Of course, Honda being who they were then, I have one (wrecked, broken rod) F2 bottom end with a -300- advancer, too, but with springs that look like the -323- springs (stiffer, slower advance). I would not state a hard-and-fast "rule" saying there is a "correct" one for the F2/3 engines, just ones that advance a little slower than, say, the ones found on the pre-1974 engines. This slower advance is needed because of the later-opening cam, and in the case of the F2/3, the leaner idle jets, to prevent spark knock. If the advance comes in too early with the late-opening cams and the higher-compression (later) engines, detonation occurs in the 2000-4000 RPM range until the incoming air pushes past the late-opening intake valve a little more effectively.
See SOHC4shop@gmail.com for info about the gadgets I make for these bikes.

The demons are repulsed when a man does good. Use that.
Blood is thicker than water, but motor oil is thicker yet...so, don't mess with my SOHC4, or I might have to hurt you.
Hondaman's creed: "Bikers are family. Treat them accordingly."

Link to Hondaman Ignition: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=67543.0

Link to My CB750 Book: https://www.lulu.com/search?adult_audience_rating=00&page=1&pageSize=10&q=my+cb750+book

Link to website: www.SOHC4shop.com

Offline kmb69

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Re: My long-overdue Spark Advancer post...
« Reply #62 on: December 28, 2014, 09:08:56 AM »
Honda Parts Fiche calls for 30220-300-154. All 3 of my F's have this advancer.

Offline Jerry Rxman Griffin aka MuthaF'er

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Re: My long-overdue Spark Advancer post...
« Reply #63 on: December 28, 2014, 11:19:38 AM »
Wonder if anyone has a tool we could use to experiment with the different spring tensions? It would be interesting to see IF there is a difference other the appearance between the Hitachi and Toyo and the 300 and the 500/550 323 springs. Kinda like dyno vs ass dyno where we could get a more definitive answer. I do have 1 set of the Yamiya 'racing' springs on the way that could be thrown into the mix too. This SHOULD give us the answer unless you find some that are progressively wound which I doubt.

Mark or Keith, do you guys how where we could test the springs? I'll pitch in the Yamiya springs before I send them to their rightful owner.
As of today 3/13/2012 my original owner 75 CB750F has made it through 3 wives, er EX-wives. Free at last.  ;-)

Offline kmb69

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Re: My long-overdue Spark Advancer post...
« Reply #64 on: December 28, 2014, 01:18:10 PM »
You could get close with a small fish/pull scale. Fix one end of the spring. Pull the other end,the same distance they move on the advancer, with the fish/pull scale.
« Last Edit: December 28, 2014, 03:13:39 PM by kmb69 »

Offline PeWe

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Re: My long-overdue Spark Advancer post...
« Reply #65 on: December 28, 2014, 02:52:09 PM »
Check spring force with a scale like this one up to 10grams. There are even smaller. Also search dynamometer
http://www.pesola.com/cgi-bin/shop?r0=user&r1=show&r2=item&itemId=120&lang=en_US
Move a certain distance and see how the scale will measure?


« Last Edit: December 28, 2014, 03:00:17 PM by PeWe »
CB750 K6-76  970cc (Earlier 1005cc JMR Billet block on the shelf waiting for a comeback)
CB750 K2-75 Parts assembled to a stock K2

Updates of the CB750 K6 -1976
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,180468.msg2092136.html#msg2092136
The billet block build thread
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,49438.msg1863571.html#msg1863571
CB750 K2 -1975  build thread
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,168243.msg1948381.html#msg1948381
K2 engine build thread. For a complete CB750 -75
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,180088.msg2088008.html#msg2088008
Carb jetting, a long story Mikuni TMR32
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,179479.msg2104967.html#msg2104967

Offline scottly

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Re: My long-overdue Spark Advancer post...
« Reply #66 on: December 28, 2014, 05:32:38 PM »
Wonder if anyone has a tool we could use to experiment with the different spring tensions? It would be interesting to see IF there is a difference other the appearance between the Hitachi and Toyo and the 300 and the 500/550 323 springs. Kinda like dyno vs ass dyno where we could get a more definitive answer. I
You also have to consider the difference in the weights of the Hitachi vs Tec advancers. The easiest way to test the advance is installed on a bike with a timing strobe; increase the RPM until full advance is achieved, and note the RPM.
I used to re-curve distributors with the aid of a "distributor machine", and I've been thinking about making a similar unit that will accept sohc parts, using an ignition scope and a variable speed electric motor to spin it. I rigged up something like it to develop an EFI system years ago.
Here is one of Bill's pics that shows the difference in the weights: 
Don't fix it if it ain't broke!
Helmets save brains. Always wear one and ride like everyone is trying to kill you....

Offline Jerry Rxman Griffin aka MuthaF'er

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Re: My long-overdue Spark Advancer post...
« Reply #67 on: December 28, 2014, 06:20:50 PM »
Yep, 2 variables. Gotta do the spring thing first?? Then use the different rate springs on the individual advancers and check via Scottly's Theory of Advancement. We'd need different 750 advancers and those 500/550 323's Hondaman has.   
As of today 3/13/2012 my original owner 75 CB750F has made it through 3 wives, er EX-wives. Free at last.  ;-)

Offline HondaMan

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Re: My long-overdue Spark Advancer post...
« Reply #68 on: December 28, 2014, 07:36:45 PM »
I used to have an old Zebco "De-Liar", which was a handheld fish scale with a tape measure alongside it. It went up to 15 lbs, in 0.1 lb marks. I used it for this sort of thing until it vanished one day when I started work in a new Honda shop...
See SOHC4shop@gmail.com for info about the gadgets I make for these bikes.

The demons are repulsed when a man does good. Use that.
Blood is thicker than water, but motor oil is thicker yet...so, don't mess with my SOHC4, or I might have to hurt you.
Hondaman's creed: "Bikers are family. Treat them accordingly."

Link to Hondaman Ignition: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=67543.0

Link to My CB750 Book: https://www.lulu.com/search?adult_audience_rating=00&page=1&pageSize=10&q=my+cb750+book

Link to website: www.SOHC4shop.com

Offline Jerry Rxman Griffin aka MuthaF'er

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Re: My long-overdue Spark Advancer post...
« Reply #69 on: December 28, 2014, 11:57:06 PM »
May still have my De-Liar along with my 202. Both would be 50 years old. 
As of today 3/13/2012 my original owner 75 CB750F has made it through 3 wives, er EX-wives. Free at last.  ;-)

Offline dave500

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Re: My long-overdue Spark Advancer post...
« Reply #70 on: December 29, 2014, 12:03:22 AM »
just don't ride under 3-4000 rpm and it wont matter what advancer you have,even pulling away youll rev the engine say 3000 and above when slipping the clutch,if not you should be.

Offline PeWe

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Re: My long-overdue Spark Advancer post...
« Reply #71 on: December 29, 2014, 01:39:11 AM »
It's nice to have stable and clean idle ~1300-1500 rpm at red lights and when warming up closer to 2000 rpm. I do not trust too low rpm's and still have proper oil pressure where the cam need it.
CB750 K6-76  970cc (Earlier 1005cc JMR Billet block on the shelf waiting for a comeback)
CB750 K2-75 Parts assembled to a stock K2

Updates of the CB750 K6 -1976
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,180468.msg2092136.html#msg2092136
The billet block build thread
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,49438.msg1863571.html#msg1863571
CB750 K2 -1975  build thread
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,168243.msg1948381.html#msg1948381
K2 engine build thread. For a complete CB750 -75
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,180088.msg2088008.html#msg2088008
Carb jetting, a long story Mikuni TMR32
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,179479.msg2104967.html#msg2104967

Offline HondaMan

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Re: My long-overdue Spark Advancer post...
« Reply #72 on: December 29, 2014, 07:42:54 PM »
It's nice to have stable and clean idle ~1300-1500 rpm at red lights and when warming up closer to 2000 rpm. I do not trust too low rpm's and still have proper oil pressure where the cam need it.

An interesting thing I've noticed about this, PeWe: if the idle is even and smooth, the oil pressure will be good at even 1000 RPM, even with "hot" cams. For example, I've repaired engines that had a bad valve, which caused it to idle roughly and have very low hot oil pressure even to the point of flickering the oil light at idle, then fixed the valve and ended up with 50 PSI hot oil pressure, no other work done to the engine. It seems to be real sensitive to the smoothness of the suction from the tank.
See SOHC4shop@gmail.com for info about the gadgets I make for these bikes.

The demons are repulsed when a man does good. Use that.
Blood is thicker than water, but motor oil is thicker yet...so, don't mess with my SOHC4, or I might have to hurt you.
Hondaman's creed: "Bikers are family. Treat them accordingly."

Link to Hondaman Ignition: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=67543.0

Link to My CB750 Book: https://www.lulu.com/search?adult_audience_rating=00&page=1&pageSize=10&q=my+cb750+book

Link to website: www.SOHC4shop.com

Offline 754

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Re: My long-overdue Spark Advancer post...
« Reply #73 on: December 29, 2014, 09:02:00 PM »
Scott build it to fit a lathe or mill, might have to put a 2 or 3X speeder on it..
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Lost quite a few CB 750's along the way

Offline dave500

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Re: My long-overdue Spark Advancer post...
« Reply #74 on: December 29, 2014, 09:20:05 PM »
bosch distributor springs are similar,i pilfered one from my collection of dissy stuff and used it in a mates xs650!a lot cheaper than 28 bloody bucks!