Author Topic: How to stop jittery points.  (Read 4805 times)

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Offline HondaMan

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How to stop jittery points.
« on: May 09, 2008, 09:16:44 PM »
(Another excerpt from "the book". It's coming along...)

Several of us have talked about the non-centricity of the long threaded shaft that holds the spark advancer onto the 750's crankshaft: Honda even put out a bulletin about it. If you shine a timing light on your advancer and find the marks keep jumping back & forth (most often found on the 2-3 set), here's what it takes to set up and true out the shaft so this problem will go away. It smoothes the bike out, and often reduces plug fouling when you have a bike that only fouls the 2-3 or 1-4 plugs.

Below is a setup, using a dial indicator, to measure the position of this long, thin shaft. By the way, these often get bumped when the engine is taken apart, so you may find yourself fixing this more than once.

What you cannot see: the alternator cover is off of the other end of the engine, to facilitate turning the crankshaft slowly while you look for the low spot with the dial indicator. Use a plastic mallet or hammer to tap this shaft, at its base by the crank, until the runout is less than .001" (it's easily done with a little patience). Then, put the advancer back on right away, and add on a temporary points plate to protect it all.
See SOHC4shop@gmail.com for info about the gadgets I make for these bikes.

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Blood is thicker than water, but motor oil is thicker yet...so, don't mess with my SOHC4, or I might have to hurt you.
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Link to Hondaman Ignition: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=67543.0

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Offline mystic_1

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Re: How to stop jittery points.
« Reply #1 on: May 09, 2008, 10:24:45 PM »
Is that a rear brake stay arm that you are using under your magnetic base?   ;D

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Offline Steve F

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Re: How to stop jittery points.
« Reply #2 on: May 10, 2008, 03:17:47 AM »
Hey Hondaman,
Thanks for that info!  I was always having trouble with the 2-3 timing mark jumping around, and now you have me thinking about the cause of all of this trouble.  The bike runs "fairly good", but I'm always looking for ways to smooth it out.  I'm curious though about the role this long shaft actually has on the points system for the 750.  I was always under the impression that the points advancer system and cam were held concentric with the recess in the crankshaft, and placed in proper orientation with the short pin, thereby placing the advancer mechanism in the correct location.  Why is it then that the timing mark "jumps around" under the timing light?  I always thought that my timing light could be picking up stray signals from the 1-4 coil ??? Or maybe weak advancer springs?  The advancer moves smoothly and the weights aren't flopping around.  BTW, I'm using the DYNA-S and DYNA coils and wires.  Which made me remember having to retard the 2-3 DYNA pickup quite a bit to get the timing where it is now.  Weird.
Steve F

Offline chrislib

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Re: How to stop jittery points.
« Reply #3 on: May 10, 2008, 06:09:07 AM »
Interesting. I have a Martek on my bike and I know the shaft has a bit of wobble to it. I wonder if this wobble can affect the accuracy of an LED triggered setup like mine (or a Hall such as Dyna)? Either way it`s now been added to "the list" Thanks!!!
Chris...closet Idlefiddler
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Offline HondaMan

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Re: How to stop jittery points.
« Reply #4 on: May 10, 2008, 08:59:16 AM »
Is that a rear brake stay arm that you are using under your magnetic base?   ;D

mystic_1

Yep, worked pretty good!
Shade tree engineering, you know....that's how I'm making this book: as few Special Tools as possible.  ;)
See SOHC4shop@gmail.com for info about the gadgets I make for these bikes.

The demons are repulsed when a man does good. Use that.
Blood is thicker than water, but motor oil is thicker yet...so, don't mess with my SOHC4, or I might have to hurt you.
Hondaman's creed: "Bikers are family. Treat them accordingly."

Link to Hondaman Ignition: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=67543.0

Link to My CB750 Book: https://www.lulu.com/search?adult_audience_rating=00&page=1&pageSize=10&q=my+cb750+book

Link to website: www.SOHC4shop.com

troppo

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Re: How to stop jittery points.
« Reply #5 on: May 10, 2008, 09:05:00 AM »


Yep, worked pretty good!
Shade tree engineering, you know....that's how I'm making this book: as few Special Tools as possible.  ;)

And thats what most of us want to read hondaman, how to fix these old girls with normal tools and not a toolbox full of "speciality" tools.
Looking forward to the next installment.
Cheers
Troppo

Offline fastbroshi

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Re: How to stop jittery points.
« Reply #6 on: October 19, 2008, 08:37:08 PM »
  I take it this only applies to the 750s.  Is this correct?
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Offline HondaMan

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Re: How to stop jittery points.
« Reply #7 on: October 19, 2008, 09:16:49 PM »
  I take it this only applies to the 750s.  Is this correct?

Honda used this setup on several bikes, not just the 750. I don't remember seeing a lot of trouble on the 500/550, just a few. But, if the shaft has been strongarmed once or twice, it could also mislocate the thing from center. While the hole was drilled into the crankshaft in an accurate manner, the parts that got inserted were assembled under quite a bit of pressure. And, any sideways bump while the crank was being moved around the assembly line could also contribute. And, I'm not considering a PO somewhere along the line...  ::)
See SOHC4shop@gmail.com for info about the gadgets I make for these bikes.

The demons are repulsed when a man does good. Use that.
Blood is thicker than water, but motor oil is thicker yet...so, don't mess with my SOHC4, or I might have to hurt you.
Hondaman's creed: "Bikers are family. Treat them accordingly."

Link to Hondaman Ignition: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=67543.0

Link to My CB750 Book: https://www.lulu.com/search?adult_audience_rating=00&page=1&pageSize=10&q=my+cb750+book

Link to website: www.SOHC4shop.com

Offline fmctm1sw

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Re: How to stop jittery points.
« Reply #8 on: March 30, 2009, 05:23:40 PM »
Dragging this post up from the dead...  My question is this:  Exactly how difficult is the spark advancer supposed to be to get off?  If mine is supposed to slide right off, it isn't...
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Offline scunny

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Re: How to stop jittery points.
« Reply #9 on: March 30, 2009, 05:34:54 PM »
once the small nut and large hexagan nut and points plate are removed it should just slide off
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Offline HondaMan

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Re: How to stop jittery points.
« Reply #10 on: March 30, 2009, 07:42:31 PM »
Interesting. I have a Martek on my bike and I know the shaft has a bit of wobble to it. I wonder if this wobble can affect the accuracy of an LED triggered setup like mine (or a Hall such as Dyna)? Either way it`s now been added to "the list" Thanks!!!

Wow, you still have a working Martek? Congratulations! The racers I knew seemed to be able to kill several a year, on the track. When did you get it? What model it is? Those were real good, when they worked right.
See SOHC4shop@gmail.com for info about the gadgets I make for these bikes.

The demons are repulsed when a man does good. Use that.
Blood is thicker than water, but motor oil is thicker yet...so, don't mess with my SOHC4, or I might have to hurt you.
Hondaman's creed: "Bikers are family. Treat them accordingly."

Link to Hondaman Ignition: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=67543.0

Link to My CB750 Book: https://www.lulu.com/search?adult_audience_rating=00&page=1&pageSize=10&q=my+cb750+book

Link to website: www.SOHC4shop.com

Offline chrislib

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Re: How to stop jittery points.
« Reply #11 on: March 31, 2009, 03:25:59 PM »
Interesting. I have a Martek on my bike and I know the shaft has a bit of wobble to it. I wonder if this wobble can affect the accuracy of an LED triggered setup like mine (or a Hall such as Dyna)? Either way it`s now been added to "the list" Thanks!!!

Wow, you still have a working Martek? Congratulations! The racers I knew seemed to be able to kill several a year, on the track. When did you get it? What model it is? Those were real good, when they worked right.

It`s a 440, and it was on the bike when I got it . I haven't had any issues with it (knock wood). As a side note, I did correct the runout issue with the advancer shaft, IIRC it was about .020 out and I was able to get it down to darned near zero but I did not notice any change in the way the bike runs...but then again it was running fine beforehand, I just come from the school of fixing things that arent broke (someday I`ll learn ;D  ).
Chris...closet Idlefiddler
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1973 CB750K...CANDY BACCHUS OLIVE

Offline HondaMan

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Re: How to stop jittery points.
« Reply #12 on: March 31, 2009, 06:42:21 PM »
Interesting. I have a Martek on my bike and I know the shaft has a bit of wobble to it. I wonder if this wobble can affect the accuracy of an LED triggered setup like mine (or a Hall such as Dyna)? Either way it`s now been added to "the list" Thanks!!!

Wow, you still have a working Martek? Congratulations! The racers I knew seemed to be able to kill several a year, on the track. When did you get it? What model it is? Those were real good, when they worked right.

It`s a 440, and it was on the bike when I got it . I haven't had any issues with it (knock wood). As a side note, I did correct the runout issue with the advancer shaft, IIRC it was about .020 out and I was able to get it down to darned near zero but I did not notice any change in the way the bike runs...but then again it was running fine beforehand, I just come from the school of fixing things that arent broke (someday I`ll learn ;D  ).

Very cool: I've always wondered what killed those on the tracks. I don't know if it was the constant 10,000 RPM, or the heat, or...? The coils didn't seem to be the issue, just the trigger part would stop triggering, usually both sides at once. I always suspected some sort of overvoltage situation, as the bikes were often run at 15 volts to increase spark output.

Long live your 440!  8)
See SOHC4shop@gmail.com for info about the gadgets I make for these bikes.

The demons are repulsed when a man does good. Use that.
Blood is thicker than water, but motor oil is thicker yet...so, don't mess with my SOHC4, or I might have to hurt you.
Hondaman's creed: "Bikers are family. Treat them accordingly."

Link to Hondaman Ignition: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=67543.0

Link to My CB750 Book: https://www.lulu.com/search?adult_audience_rating=00&page=1&pageSize=10&q=my+cb750+book

Link to website: www.SOHC4shop.com

Offline bubbafun101

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Re: How to stop jittery points.
« Reply #13 on: April 01, 2009, 07:21:54 PM »
Just fixed mine. I happened to be close to 8/thousands off. It took longer to remove of the covers, than the actual fix. Unfortunately my stator cover gasket tore, so I cant button her up till I get it fixed. Just for the record, Honda Man kicks ass. Don't want to sound like a groupie, but I have one of his ignition box's and it was plug and play. Works great. Keep it up. Please keep us in mind on the new "book", I look forward to reading it.

Offline HondaMan

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Re: How to stop jittery points.
« Reply #14 on: April 01, 2009, 07:30:28 PM »
Just fixed mine. I happened to be close to 8/thousands off. It took longer to remove of the covers, than the actual fix. Unfortunately my stator cover gasket tore, so I cant button her up till I get it fixed. Just for the record, Honda Man kicks ass. Don't want to sound like a groupie, but I have one of his ignition box's and it was plug and play. Works great. Keep it up. Please keep us in mind on the new "book", I look forward to reading it.

 :D :D It's getting to the point where I'm looking forward to getting it DONE. Every time I review a section, I come up with, "Oh, nuts. I forgot to add...."
See SOHC4shop@gmail.com for info about the gadgets I make for these bikes.

The demons are repulsed when a man does good. Use that.
Blood is thicker than water, but motor oil is thicker yet...so, don't mess with my SOHC4, or I might have to hurt you.
Hondaman's creed: "Bikers are family. Treat them accordingly."

Link to Hondaman Ignition: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=67543.0

Link to My CB750 Book: https://www.lulu.com/search?adult_audience_rating=00&page=1&pageSize=10&q=my+cb750+book

Link to website: www.SOHC4shop.com