Author Topic: Compression after rebuild, any guesses on CR?  (Read 1619 times)

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Offline Soos

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Compression after rebuild, any guesses on CR?
« on: May 12, 2008, 11:42:00 PM »
I decided to do a compression test on my cb650 cylinders.
The 650 motor has a set of cb750F('77) pistons, 61mm.
I tested with a really old(ok... older than me anyways) compression tester.
The engine was warm when i did the test, as I had rode for 25 miles to go use the tool.

The pressures i am getting are:
cyl1 200
cyl2 195
cyl3 203
cyl4 200

Any guesses on CR??
Thats WAY higher than the stock 170'ish PSI that stock pistons run at.

Just curious....

l8r
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Just think to yourself what would Alowishus Devander Abercrombie do?
"Brix will be shat by your neighbors." - schwebel
(61mm)652cc 1979 cb650

Offline crazypj

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Re: Compression after rebuild, any guesses on CR?
« Reply #1 on: May 12, 2008, 11:54:46 PM »
Its probably around 12:1.
 With flat top pistons you should ge a much better burn but will need to start with 93octane and possibly extra base gasket
PJ
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'you can take my word for it or argue until you find out I'm right'

Offline Soos

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Re: Compression after rebuild, any guesses on CR?
« Reply #2 on: May 13, 2008, 02:07:34 AM »
These pistons almost match the dome rise as the stock 650 pistons... a tad taller due to the piston needing machined to match the deck height of the stockers.

As for the 93 octane.... I might have to try that.
I have not noticed any pinging so far with 89 octane.

I had thought of using an x-tra base gasket... but it runs :)
Mabey on the next unit I will do more doublechecking before slapping it together... :)


l8r
-=≡ Soos ≡=-
Just think to yourself what would Alowishus Devander Abercrombie do?
"Brix will be shat by your neighbors." - schwebel
(61mm)652cc 1979 cb650

Offline rbirkhan

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Re: Compression after rebuild, any guesses on CR?
« Reply #3 on: May 13, 2008, 05:04:37 AM »
Thats pretty high. Not saying you will have problems that high, but detonation could ruin your day. I have built quite a few air cooled engines and the guideline for an every day air cooled engine is dont exceed 9.5/1 CR unless fuel injected or using race gas.  I built one with 10.2 aircooled with a fan operated oil cooler and it did not last long (1 year) before it was burning oil. It ran like a raped ape though.  New rings freshened it up and I lowered it to 8.8 and it was fine. It ran very hot at 10.2/1 I would get the best gas you can find and error on the rich side when tuning. Should pull like a freight train compared to a stocker. Also might want to retard your timing a bit.

Offline xlemming

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Re: Compression after rebuild, any guesses on CR?
« Reply #4 on: May 13, 2008, 05:42:12 AM »
CR by definition is actually a volumetric ratio, is the the volume at BDC over the volume at TDC.  It is totally misnamed, but it is something you could probably calculate.

Offline 750essess

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Re: Compression after rebuild, any guesses on CR?
« Reply #5 on: May 13, 2008, 05:52:45 AM »
I get readings of around 210 with JE 10.5:1 pistons and web cam 63b .
Orleans Cycle Repair and Restoration
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69Z50
XR650L

Offline Soos

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Re: Compression after rebuild, any guesses on CR?
« Reply #6 on: May 13, 2008, 06:43:23 AM »
I'm quite happy with the difference.
Nothing major, but noticeable.
I'm tempted to add a base gasket......

l8r
 

-=≡ Soos ≡=-
Just think to yourself what would Alowishus Devander Abercrombie do?
"Brix will be shat by your neighbors." - schwebel
(61mm)652cc 1979 cb650

Offline 750essess

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Re: Compression after rebuild, any guesses on CR?
« Reply #7 on: May 13, 2008, 07:09:17 AM »
Might not be a bad idea, I'm having some pinging under high load  on 93 pump gas
Orleans Cycle Repair and Restoration
76CB750F
69Z50
XR650L

Offline MRieck

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Re: Compression after rebuild, any guesses on CR?
« Reply #8 on: May 13, 2008, 07:16:40 AM »
Might not be a bad idea, I'm having some pinging under high load  on 93 pump gas
The Dyna 2000 can help in that area too.
Owner of the "Million Dollar CB"

fixahonda

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Re: Compression after rebuild, any guesses on CR?
« Reply #9 on: May 13, 2008, 07:23:09 AM »
I would double check with another gauge before you went changing things. If the gauge is that old, you really don't know how accurate it is.
My version of your old gauge reads really low. Like my new gauge reads 150 and the old reads 65. If I took the word of just that one gauge I would be rebuilding motors left and right.

Offline 750essess

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Re: Compression after rebuild, any guesses on CR?
« Reply #10 on: May 13, 2008, 08:21:27 AM »
Might not be a bad idea, I'm having some pinging under high load  on 93 pump gas
The Dyna 2000 can help in that area too.
The microsquirt box will help too, if I can just get some time to do some tuning.
Orleans Cycle Repair and Restoration
76CB750F
69Z50
XR650L

Offline MRieck

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Re: Compression after rebuild, any guesses on CR?
« Reply #11 on: May 13, 2008, 08:53:11 AM »
Might not be a bad idea, I'm having some pinging under high load  on 93 pump gas
The Dyna 2000 can help in that area too.
The microsquirt box will help too, if I can just get some time to do some tuning.
Yeah FI is always a plus with high ratio's.
Owner of the "Million Dollar CB"

Offline paulages

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Re: Compression after rebuild, any guesses on CR?
« Reply #12 on: May 13, 2008, 10:33:38 AM »
soos- you might still be able to measure it, even though it's on the bike already. the hard part will be sealing the rings, but i'd try the following: squirt a measured amount of heavy-ish oil into the spark plug hole at BDC (like if you were doing a leakdown test and trying to seal the rings to figure out if a compression loss is in the valve train). you can probably find something to run down the spark plug hold and feel for BDC. then fill the combustion chamber with a carefully measured amount of food-colored isoprobyl alcohol. mine measured 185/17 (BDC/TDC) with 63mm pistons. i'd start filling really slow around 160cc's to make sure you don't overflow and lose your measurement. fill fast though: the oil might not seal the rings well. the 650 spark plug hole sits relatively on top of the cylinder, so you should be able to fill the chamber to the top.

you can use an ear syringe with some tubing on the end to suck the alcohol back out of the cylinder. id also either give some time in between the two measurements to make sure the alcohol evaporates completely, run it in between, or use two different cylinders for the measurements since you can take it apart and clean it up.
paul
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Offline crazypj

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Re: Compression after rebuild, any guesses on CR?
« Reply #13 on: May 14, 2008, 06:08:52 AM »
Your more likely to have a problem if you use high throttle openings at low rpm.
 Keep it spinning free through the gears and you should be fine. A hotter cam will give more top end and actually drop the compression slightly due to reversion at low rpm
At high rpm (6,000 plus) the ignition is at full advance and the faster burn time will help power output.
The volumetric efficiency isn't as good on older engines so the actual running compression ration at high rpm is probably well below the 200~ your getting while cranking (65~80% compared to 100%)
PJ
I fake being smart pretty good
'you can take my word for it or argue until you find out I'm right'