Topic: $4.39

[Hope]

Yep, I only put Supreme in my 550, and I am feeling the hurt....

Does it need a higher octane?

Do you want to start a great debate about whether or not it really does?  I think you'll start a debate similar to those of the "which oil is better" variety.

I have never run Circle K gas in my 550, and I run nothing but premium.  It's my preference and makes me feel like I am taking care of my baby.  I never questioned if that's what my bike needs.  It's my preference to do these things.

[nickjtc]

Do you want to start a great debate about whether or not it really does?

No thank you. I'm out of beverage-du-jour and popcorn at the office so would not want to initiate that which has been discussed ad nauseum before.

My question was asked because if the bike does not 'need' the higher octane gas why not save a bit of $$ and use something lower in octane? It certainly will not harm the bike. I can appreciate that doing so might be outside your comfort zone; been there and done that with my CB650. Having found that the manufacturer recommends a lower octane I'm happy to save a little bit of $$.

[jevfro]

Do you want to start a great debate about whether or not it really does?

No thank you. I'm out of beverage-du-jour and popcorn at the office so would not want to initiate that which has been discussed ad nauseum before.

My question was asked because if the bike does not 'need' the higher octane gas why not save a bit of $$ and use something lower in octane? It certainly will not harm the bike. I can appreciate that doing so might be outside your comfort zone; been there and done that with my CB650. Having found that the manufacturer recommends a lower octane I'm happy to save a little bit of $$.

My understanding of this issue is that it is BAD for your bike...

http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=34103.0

read TT post ~6 down

 might wanna switch to 87 for you 550.  Sorry just had to stir the pot a lil'

 

[nickjtc]

Now I'm going to have to get beverage/popcorn. Hold on 'til I get back, will you. Thanks.

[eldar]

Well I highly doubt you will cause harm to your engine. Besides, these days, it is more than just octane you have to think about. So much gas has ethanol in it and certain brands have certain additive packages in it.

I have run all grades and never saw a difference. Probably only noticeable on a dyno.

Fill what you like and what you can justify.

[dustyc]

So do the countries with high petrol/gas(oline) prices ($10, $6.60) have socialized health care?  Is the difference in price made up of taxes to fund the healthcare system?  Just wondering why the difference. 

If we took the difference and applied it to our healthcare bills, I think we'd be worse off.  But we're supposed to have "better" healthcare so the higher price should be justified.  Only problem I see is that we don't really have better healthcare from what I've seen.  I had a neighbor from France that would go back for medical/dental visits and she seemed to have received better treatment compared to what I've seen my parents and sisters get.  Seems like doctors here always want to operate on someone.  And they don't really know who they're treating, so medical history is just gleaned from looking for a minute at some record that might not even be complete.  It seems to me that a doctor should have a long term relationship with their patient and know their history as well as family history. 

I personally don't have health insurance -I couldn't afford it even when I worked for a big corporation.  Just the insurance was about half of my after tax paycheck, that didn't count deductibles and stuff it didn't cover.  I just try not to get sick or hurt and if I do, then I'll either just be sick until I die or get treated and have to file bankruptcy after it's done.

So back to my original question, how much of the cost of petrol is taxes and what do the taxes get spent on in your country?

[seaweb11]

Canada break down.
http://www.fin.gc.ca/toce/2006/gas_tax-e.html

[mark]

110 leaded is $7 at the track.... only up 50¢/ gal. since last year.

What a deal, eh?

So do the countries with high petrol/gas(oline) prices ($10, $6.60) have socialized health care?  Is the difference in price made up of taxes to fund the healthcare system?  Just wondering why the difference. .........................So back to my original question, how much of the cost of petrol is taxes and what do the taxes get spent on in your country?

Lots of different taxes in different places.... I imagine they spread them around much as we do - a specific tax on fuel for road-related stuff, local sales taxes for local stuff, and then there's the GST which is like a federal sales tax slapped on everything but the air you breathe and that is likely the one that supports programs like healthcare.

[TwoTired]

I have never run Circle K gas in my 550, and I run nothing but premium.  It's my preference and makes me feel like I am taking care of my baby.  I never questioned if that's what my bike needs.  It's my preference to do these things.

Can't argue with "feelings".  Technical arguments simply don't apply.

Can't really blame you.  So much of corporate marketing plays on consumer feelings.  We're taught how to respond in a favorable consumerist manner at a very early age.

Cheers,

[tsp37]

Run with the lowest octane rating you can without knock.  The high octane stuff needs the higher compression to burn right, so you may actually cheat your performance with unnecessary octane.

Back when tetra-ethyl lead was used to boost the octane rating, the energy content of high octane was actually slightly less than that of the low octane variety because the TE lead displaced gasoline in a fixed volume.  You had to have the high compression to squeeze the available energy from the high octane gasoline to get more oomph.

[Hope]

I have never run Circle K gas in my 550, and I run nothing but premium.  It's my preference and makes me feel like I am taking care of my baby.  I never questioned if that's what my bike needs.  It's my preference to do these things.

Can't argue with "feelings".  Technical arguments simply don't apply.

Can't really blame you.  So much of corporate marketing plays on consumer feelings.  We're taught how to respond in a favorable consumerist manner at a very early age.

Cheers,

TT,
You said yourself in post #6 that engines become addicted to the higher octane.  I've been running it since 2002, so my 550 engine is probably addicted based on your statement.  So, guess I'll have to keep using it.  Otherwise it might get withdrawal.

Or maybe, just out of curiosity, I will pull into Circle K and get some of that super cheap crap and see if it won't leave me stranded.  Will report back with results. 

I will assume all gas brands are equal, too.... as long as I put the cheapest gas possible in my tank, I will be doing the best thing for my engine. Okie dokie, off to get some cheap gas & find out what the outcome will be.

[Frankenkit]

Couldn't you pour in some seafoam and get rid of some of whatever residue causes engines to *need* this high octane?

[Hope]

Couldn't you pour in some seafoam and get rid of some of whatever residue causes engines to *need* this high octane?

I've used Seafoam before, but I don't know if it gets rid of the residue.  I just use it because most everyone here uses or mentions using it or discusses using it... not really knowing what it does for my bike.  But, I'm sure someone here will tell me whether it will or will not clear out the residue.

[Gordon]

I will assume all gas brands are equal, too.... as long as I put the cheapest gas possible in my tank, I will be doing the best thing for my engine. Okie dokie, off to get some cheap gas & find out what the outcome will be.

Actually, that's a fairly safe assumption to make.  The only difference between different brands of gas is the additives they put in it, but they all start out with the same stock.  There are decent arguments on all sides for the additives that each company puts into their gas, but within each brand, all grades of gas are required to have the same amount of detergent additives.  So paying for a higher octane fuel than your engine can make use of will not benefit your bike in any way. 

[eldar]

One thing to watch out for are some small stations. You can find old gas which burns poorly(lower octane) and will cause loss of power. Funny, too high is bad and too low is bad but av gas or racing fuel which is high seems ok.  I guess something does not gel here. I feel that while a basic premium fuel may not help, I doubt it hurts. You just spend more.

[Hope]

I will assume all gas brands are equal, too.... as long as I put the cheapest gas possible in my tank, I will be doing the best thing for my engine. Okie dokie, off to get some cheap gas & find out what the outcome will be.

Actually, that's a fairly safe assumption to make.  The only difference between different brands of gas is the additives they put in it, but they all start out with the same stock.  There are decent arguments on all sides for the additives that each company puts into their gas, but within each brand, all grades of gas are required to have the same amount of detergent additives.  So paying for a higher octane fuel than your engine can make use of will not benefit your bike in any way. 

You might imagine my reluctance to just stop at any gas station and get cheap gas after I have had to clean the fuel injection and drop dual gas tanks in my old Ford Ranger due to getting ahold of some bad gas.  I don't own the Ranger anymore, but the whole experience left me skeptical of cheap gas.  (It was a few years ago).

[Hope]

Funny, too high is bad and too low is bad but av gas or racing fuel which is high seems ok.

I've added a product called Rocket Fuel to my gas, but I don't believe it helped my performance.  No need to try it again.  I don't see where I benefited.

According to the majority, just put the cheapest gas from any old gas station and I will be doing my bike a favor.

[Gordon]

You might imagine my reluctance to just stop at any gas station and get cheap gas after I have had to clean the fuel injection and drop dual gas tanks in my old Ford Ranger due to getting ahold of some bad gas.  I don't own the Ranger anymore, but the whole experience left me skeptical of cheap gas.  (It was a few years ago).

Okay, but is it safe to assume that was a cheap gas station, and not just cheap gas?

There's a big difference.

[Hope]

You might imagine my reluctance to just stop at any gas station and get cheap gas after I have had to clean the fuel injection and drop dual gas tanks in my old Ford Ranger due to getting ahold of some bad gas.  I don't own the Ranger anymore, but the whole experience left me skeptical of cheap gas.  (It was a few years ago).

Okay, but is it safe to assume that was a cheap gas station, and not just cheap gas?

There's a big difference.

Gordon,

To be honest, my family has always used Chevron or Shell gas... mostly the premium sort.  More than likely, the gas came from either a Chevron or Shell, but it was probably regular gas because I got the truck when my father passed away... and I was broke.... but I still used Chevron or Shell gas.

I can remember laying under that truck cussing the fact that I had to drop 2 tanks better than I can remember at which location of Chevron or Shell I got the damned gas.  I just remember being furious about having to drop dual tanks and cleaning the fuel injection.... as I said, it was a few years ago.

[Gordon]

I'm not asking about the brand of gas, I'm asking about the gas station.  If you got bad gas from the regular pump, chances are you would have gotten bad gas from the premium as well. 

My point is that there is no difference between grades of gas at any gas station other than the octane rating.

[TwoTired]

TT,
You said yourself in post #6 that engines become addicted to the higher octane.  I've been running it since 2002, so my 550 engine is probably addicted based on your statement.  So, guess I'll have to keep using it.  Otherwise it might get withdrawal.

The only way to tell if you have enough deposits to change the CR is to try a lower octane gas.  If the engine starts Pinging (that's the withdrawal symptom), then go to the next highest grade.  This should burn hotter and just may burn off enough deposits in the chamber to lower the CR and once again allow regular gas to be used.  Could be, it won't ping at all.

An alternate approach is to decarbonize the cylinders.  Honda says this is done by removing the cylinder head and scraping off the carbon/additive deposits.  However, steam does this job, as well.   You do this with water injection, or squirting water in the carb intake with the engine revved.  The trick is to use just enough water to clean the cylinders, but not so much that the cylinder hydraulic lock and blows a head gasket.

I've yet to try the steam thing.  But, I think I will on an engine in the near future.  Going to make a borescope first, so I can examine the effect/progress through the spark plug hole.

Cheers,

[andy750]

I personally don't have health insurance -I couldn't afford it even when I worked for a big corporation.  Just the insurance was about half of my after tax paycheck, that didn't count deductibles and stuff it didn't cover.  I just try not to get sick or hurt and if I do, then I'll either just be sick until I die or get treated and have to file bankruptcy after it's done.

If you lived in any other Western industrialized country Dusty you would get free healthcare as everyone other Western country has a national healthcare service. There is no "better" healthcare here in the States, just more expensive. The taxes levied on gas in other countries goes to a wide range of things such as roads, healthcare etc etc....its spread around to maintain the infrastructure.

Ask yourself this....if you could have better roads/safer bridges etc would you pay more for your gas?

cheers
Andy