Topic: Tried some things- oil light still on?!?! pics available Also probs with others.

[JAG]

Also there is never any smoke coming out of the exhaust and I check the spark plugs and they all look great so I know it isn't burning any oil.

I got a little soot (spelling?) coming out of the exhaust but this engine has literally been sitting with no more than 40 miles being put on it in over 2 years probably..

[edbikerii]

Remove the gauge and ride that #$%* till she dies.  Work on your spare engine as a backup in the meantime.

[JAG]

That is the plan, but even if I replace the crankshaft and bearings, you don't think it'll fix things?

The pressure is great when the engine isn't fully warm. Works exactly the way it should. Of course it's probably due to the fact that oil is still thick.

[edbikerii]

I think the shiny metal flakes you saw in your oil were probably remnants of the old oil pump.  You showed images of it and have seen the damage on the rotors, correct?  Now, I would have to speculate a little here.  First of all, the oil pump is before the filter, so any crud that might have been in the oil pan would have hit the oil pump and destroyed it first.  Second, any crap from that event would have then gone into the filter.  Of course, if the filter was old and clogged, or full of debris from the event, then the bypass could have allowed unfiltered oil to circulate through your engine, and prematurely worn your bearings.

Other factors can lead to premature bearing failure, including extreme service intervals allowing acidic compounds in your old oil to attack the engine's internals.  Or pro-longed periods of sitting with old oil, also allowing acidic compounds and moisture built up in the old oil to attack the engine's internals.  As far as you know, has this bike suffered these issues?  Of course, there are other potential causes, but I think these are the most common.

Have you tried running 20W50 oil?  Does the oil light stay off when you run 20W50?

Someone on your other thread (was it 754?) mentioned that the bearings on your 750 could be changed from the bottom.  I'm not familiar with that engine, but can the bearings be accessed at all by dropping the oil pan?  If so, then maybe plasti-gage them and see what the clearances are.  I know of no other way to tell the condition of the bearings.  Sorry.

Also, if the light stays off, but the oil gauge is reading low, I'd be a little suspicious of the gauge.  Haven't you already replaced the oil light switch and still had the problem, so you know the switch is good, right?

Could it be that the over-revving you did cleared a blockage of some kind of sludge in one of your oil passages?  If it were my bike, I would assume that to be the case, and I'd keep riding it.  Maybe I'd add a quart of kerosene to the oil, let it run for awhile to flush any "sludge" out of the system, drain and refill with fresh 20W50 oil.

Then I'd remove that darned gauge, and ride the crap out of it until I had some reason to believe there was a bigger problem.  Worst case, it is your bearings, and they will continue to get worse.  So, at least you get some riding pleasure out of it before you have to do the job.  Best case, you never notice the problem again!!!

That is the plan, but even if I replace the crankshaft and bearings, you don't think it'll fix things?

The pressure is great when the engine isn't fully warm. Works exactly the way it should. Of course it's probably due to the fact that oil is still thick.

[JAG]

I have 20w50 in there now. Never really changed anything..

There has been 3 different oil pressure gauges installed 2 from me and one from the previous owner, and they are all reading the same. Looks great when cold, crappy when warm.

It funny you say something about the sludge, because this afternoon after riding about 45 miles I noticed a lot of crap caked on the rod that you use to pull down the main stand. When I ran my finger across the inside of the exhaust I pulled out a finger full of gooey crap. I thought maybe due to burning oil. But no smoke, and the oil level still remains the same from when I topped it off..  Hmmmmm It was from my 1 and 2 cylinders as I have 2 into 1 on either side. I know this bike has been sitting for awhile and there were a few things that did cure itself, but I don't think I'll get lucky with this one.

The bearings can be changed, by ( i believe ) turning the engine upside down and go through it that way. It cannot be seen by removing the oil pan. I can see the chains, but nothing else really.

The switch is brand new. The light does come on once it moves past 5-7psi, as it should.

So do you think, in your opinion, adding kerosene (and how much should I add??) to the oil would remove possible sludge build up and maybe increase oil pressure?

Also if it is the bearings, can I simply replace them ( Or whole crank, rod and bearings )and achieve proper oil pressure?

Thanks for the replies edbikerii, I want to try and get to the bottom of this! You'd think with all the views of this post you'd think there would be more replies

[edbikerii]

As for the kerosene, I meant that it should be used as a motor flush only.  Don't go riding around with it in your crankcase.   Alternatively, you could use one of the commercially available motor flush products they sell at the auto parts stores (probably easier to find, and they come with instructions to make you feel better).

My idea is that since you said that when you over-revved it, the oil light went out and stayed out, then maybe it was (is) clogged oil passages, full of sludge or something.  It is just a hope that you might get lucky by cleaning out the engine of sludge.  You've got nothing to lose!

I don't know if changing your bearings and/or crankshaft will help.  The only way to know for sure would be to measure them.  I've never had this problem and fixed it by changing bearings and/or crankshaft, so I cannot address that remedy directly.  I'm just hopeful that your problem is a simple build up of crap in oil passages combined with the known-damaged oil pump, and that correcting either or both of those conditions might resolve your oil pressure problem.

So, my understanding is that your oil light is now operating correctly since your missed-gear over-rev incident, and your bike is running fine, really well, in fact.  If that is the case, then I think you should just run the flush through the engine, and leave well enough alone.

I have 20w50 in there now. Never really changed anything..

There has been 3 different oil pressure gauges installed 2 from me and one from the previous owner, and they are all reading the same. Looks great when cold, crappy when warm.

It funny you say something about the sludge, because this afternoon after riding about 45 miles I noticed a lot of crap caked on the rod that you use to pull down the main stand. When I ran my finger across the inside of the exhaust I pulled out a finger full of gooey crap. I thought maybe due to burning oil. But no smoke, and the oil level still remains the same from when I topped it off..  Hmmmmm It was from my 1 and 2 cylinders as I have 2 into 1 on either side. I know this bike has been sitting for awhile and there were a few things that did cure itself, but I don't think I'll get lucky with this one.

The bearings can be changed, by ( i believe ) turning the engine upside down and go through it that way. It cannot be seen by removing the oil pan. I can see the chains, but nothing else really.

The switch is brand new. The light does come on once it moves past 5-7psi, as it should.

So do you think, in your opinion, adding kerosene (and how much should I add??) to the oil would remove possible sludge build up and maybe increase oil pressure?

Also if it is the bearings, can I simply replace them ( Or whole crank, rod and bearings )and achieve proper oil pressure?

Thanks for the replies edbikerii, I want to try and get to the bottom of this! You'd think with all the views of this post you'd think there would be more replies

[bryanj]

Right, imagine you big end and main shells they are half round steel plated with copper and then coated with babbit or white metal bearing material. The only place i can think of where you will get bronzy flakes from is the copper plating on the shells which means that the bearing material has worn away leaving too big a clearance alowing drop in oil pressure.

If you have a useable spare engine ride it and await the disaster, If not strip it and get a second hand crank, rods etc.

It is possible that if its a main going, oil feed to the ends is low and you could snap a rod destroying the crankcases which is why you only ride it if you have a complete engine spare

[JAG]

ok guys I'll give it a shot, as well as trying the flushing the engine...

It may help it may not, but it's worth a try.

[JAG]

Okay I went to NAPA and bought some Motor Flush. That recommended only stay in for 5 minutes. Put it in and when that 5 minutes came up, the idling/rpms started going down like it was about to die, so I shut her off and drained the oil and put in a new oil filter.

I haven't picked up the oil yet, so I have to go back and get it, but when I was talking to the guy about my problem, he also believed that there was some clogging going on, and also suggested adding the Lucas Oil Treatment to the oil when I go to fill it back up with fresh oil. He says it acts as a stimulant and helps with the process. Anyone have any experience using this product?

Also can't seem to find Rotella T 50 weight anywhere, but they do have the Rotella T 40 there so I thought I would try that, unless you guys think I should stick with the 20w50?

Also at the bottom of my container that I use to drain the oil into, had tiny specs of that dreaded shiny brassy color, as well as black specs and shiny metal-like specs. And some of it also seemed to be magnetic.

[JAG]

Didn't put any Lucas in it. Changed to Rotella T 40..

No change, and the oil light is back on.. Assumingly due to the drop in oil weight.

[JAG]

oil light stays on under 3K again, but still reads 5psi at idle.

Maybe I'll run the #$%* out of it, and it will seize, flipping me over the handlebars, and I won't have to deal with it anymore.

c'est la vie

[edbikerii]

CB550s sometimes have issues with 10W40 oil.  I've heard of oil lights staying on once the engine is warm.  This problem has been seen to go away when running 20W50 oil.

It is summertime now.  You might as well run 20W50.  I use Castrol GTX 20W50, in my CB550 and I've been quite happy with it (no clutch slippage issues, etc.)

[bradweingartner]

Considering you had good pressure with old oil and low pressure with warm oil I'm going to go with out of spec engine clearances. But that's just me. Plus the flakes point to that direction as well.

The real question is not whether your bearings are shot or not, but rather, are your bearings shot because of low oil pressure or did you have low oil pressure due to the bearings being shot.

[martino1972]

hard starting could posibly be cause your valve clearance is way to tight,over time as valves wear they sit deeper in the cylinder head taking away the clearances till the point where there is no clearnce at all anymore,causing the valves to stay ever so slightly open all the time,this can cause hard starting,poor idle,no power at lower end of rpm etc.....
eventialy the valves will burn out completly,so you really want to check your clearance...
this doesn't have anything to do with the oil pressure problem your having,just the hard starting..
for the loss of oil pressure when warmed up it sounds to me the bearing clearances are getting to the point where it cant build up pressure enough anymore,but instead it bleeds of too much oil past the bearings,like on the crank and rod's..
i wouldnt drive it till it blowes up,then your out of a motor,i would have a tear down on the motor and repair what ever is worn ,thats probably cheaper then replacing the entire motor,but thats my 2 cents...
i mean buying a crankshaft etc. is expensive,repairing a crankshaft,like grinding it too spec and put oversize bearing shells in is not too bad on price..
good luck with whatever you decide to do

martino

[bryanj]

Martino, you cant grind a Honda crank as nobody, but nobody, makes undersize shells. So you have to get another crank, usually with rods and sort out new shells

[martino1972]

oh,realy,you can't get oversized shells??? i realy didn't know that,i asumed you could...
i guess for cars and suchs its different then....sorry for the wrong info then,lol...
but then if they discontinued the cranks at honda,it might be a mission to get a crank then??? no aftermarket stuff availible either??

[JAG]

I've seen a lot of them on ebay for around $100 dollars, good used condition including rods, and bearings.

I just figured it would be cheaper to buy one with all that around $100 dollars, instead of paying close to $300 for new piston rings, oil rings, and compression rings, and to also hone cylinders, with this other engine I have. Or hell, maybe even take the crank, bearings, etc. out of this other engine I have and mount that dude in this engine that is dying.. But would it really solve my problem? If it did I would do it right now!!!

So as everyone suggests, run it till it dies, get the other motor rebuilt in the mean time, and have it ready to swap over whenever..