Author Topic: Master link clip on pops off on my chain twice now???? (Read 8842 times)

eosmontana · « **on:** May 19, 2008, 07:57:13 PM »

Last summer i did a 530 chain sprocket conversion on my 78 F2 .... when i did it i was a complete idiot and cut the chain one link too short ....doh:::: anyways my "ingenious" fix was to take link of the excess chain and get another master link to bridge the gap......so off i sped with my dual master link chain....

a week later i was going over my bike before i left for a ride to seattle when i noticed one of my master link clips was missing.... thinking i didn't get it all the way on the first time i went and bought another....

recently i was looking over the bike again and noticed it was missing for teh second time?....

is using 2 master links dangerous? any idea why the clip would pop off but nothing else?

750goes · « **Reply #1 on:** May 19, 2008, 08:09:42 PM »

what direction is the second - "fall off often" - master link facing ??

333 · « **Reply #2 on:** May 19, 2008, 08:28:54 PM »

The clip is supposed to go on one way only. The open end of the link should always be facing the opposite direction the chain is traveling.

eosmontana · « **Reply #3 on:** May 19, 2008, 11:07:16 PM »

Yep... Both times the clip was put on in the correct direction.....

Raul CB750K1 · « **Reply #4 on:** May 19, 2008, 11:22:48 PM »

I don't see any reason why it should pop off. Indeed, even a chain with ALL master links should work just fine, as there should be no side thrust.

crazypj · « **Reply #5 on:** May 19, 2008, 11:34:21 PM »

You have the wrong link or the side plate isn't fully pressed on, they are an interference fit on pins
try test fitting the clip by sliding it onto just one outer side then the other.
It should slide into the pin groove easily.
If it doesn't, try pushing the side plate further onto pin ( squeeze it with a vice grips across sides between pins, you have nothing to loose at this point)
PJ

Johnie · « **Reply #6 on:** May 20, 2008, 06:36:46 AM »

I had a master clip break in half. That was it for me. I now install all my chains with the rivet link. Solved that problem...

Soos · « **Reply #7 on:** May 20, 2008, 07:03:12 AM »

Have you had this happen when you are nearing the point you need to adjust the chain?
Could the chain be able to contact something when loose that it would not normally?

l8r

DME · « **Reply #8 on:** May 20, 2008, 07:12:52 AM »

Rivet links are safer although a hassle i you want to remove your chain for any reason.
I always use a dab of silicone to secure a master clip:
- clean the clip and link to remove all traces of oil and fit them
- put a coat of silicone over the clip and link
- let dry overnight

Done!

Cheers
Dan

hymodyne · « **Reply #9 on:** May 20, 2008, 07:25:17 AM »

Quote from: Johnie on May 20, 2008, 06:36:46 AM

I had a master clip break in half. That was it for me. I now install all my chains with the rivet link. Solved that problem...

I'm putting a new (2000K) 520 chain back on after regular lubrication and riding, and it had at lease half a dozen tight links. I tapped on the problem linkages with a punch to free them. As far as the master link is concerned, I need a rivet tool for this I imagine?

hym

eosmontana · « **Reply #10 on:** May 20, 2008, 08:26:59 AM »

The side plate is fully on and the clip went on fiarly easily....
the chain is at spec tension, not enough slop to wiggle and hit anything, however about a week and a half ago i had lost the bolt that holds on the front sprocket while i was riding.... so it is possible that the sprocket floated out a little and the chain hit something popping off the clip???... although this isn't what happened the first time.

anyways i think i'll try a dab of silicone as previously suggested and see how that works.

bryanj · « **Reply #11 on:** May 20, 2008, 09:32:30 AM »

Is the second clip link the same make as manufacturers only have to make the roller width and pin distance the same; pin diameter, bushing size, plate width etc can all be different

scondon · « **Reply #12 on:** May 20, 2008, 11:13:28 AM »

I converted to 530 chain on my '78 F and had a master clip fall off and slip the chain on the freeway. Rivet link chains ever since

I think there is an ever slight side load when converting to 530 but can't confirm this, just looking at sprockets and chain after 12,000 miles.

You can safety wire the master clip with a strong thin wire wrapped around the link plate and twisted tight like a twist tie at the grocery store. It will not interfere with chain function or rub on any moving part.

Raul CB750K1 · « **Reply #13 on:** May 20, 2008, 11:15:19 AM »

This can be like opening a can of worms, but after having to use a clamp to insert the master link plate, and have a hard time inserting the clip on the grooves, I can't see any reason why a rivet link is safer than a clip link. If the plates and rollers are the same, riveting is just a way of making sure the plate won't come off, the same job performed by the clip. If there is no side thrust, both of them should work just fine. But the clip is way easier to install and remove.

Bryan gave good advice: maybe different manufacturers have different clips, while the pitch remains the same according to standard.

markjenn · « **Reply #14 on:** May 20, 2008, 11:36:56 AM »

Quote from: eosmontana on May 20, 2008, 08:26:59 AM

The side plate is fully on and the clip went on fiarly easily....

In my experience, at least with o-ring chains, these two statements are mutually exclusive. I've always had to really work to get the links compressed enough to get the clip to pop into the groove on the pin and when it does, it really snaps into place. I think it is every easy to think you have the clip on correctly and not have it seated in the groove. And because the clip bites into the pin, it will hold for quite a while until it eventually works its way off.

Some will disagree, but I'm convinced 99% of master link failures are caused by improper installation or wrong parts.

- Mark

eosmontana · « **Reply #15 on:** May 20, 2008, 11:37:46 AM »

they are different manufactureres in fact.... so this might be the problem..... although on visual inspection the 2 master clips, one from the same manufacturer and one from a different one, look identical...

another thing to note is that the link plate hasn't moved at all, so i don't think it to be any type of lateral movement of the chain.

as far as the clip not being on all the way, i can clearly see the groove is all the way past the plate..... it is possible i still didn't have it on all the way though.... so this time i will be extra extra sure.

Raul CB750K1 · « **Reply #16 on:** May 20, 2008, 01:31:16 PM »

Could it be that you just swapped the clips between links? That is, using clip A in link B and viceversa.

rbirkhan · « **Reply #17 on:** May 20, 2008, 02:35:05 PM »

I folowed my friend he was on his 750 last summer and I could see the swingarm twist as he accelerated. I told him about it and we came to the conclusion one of his shocks wasnt really a shock anymore, more like just a a spring. When he accelerated (when the suspension compressed) it was putting a side load on the swingarm. He never had a chain issue but the chain was brand new. He now has new shocks. I would look at everything if the chain comes loose your chances of having a bad day are good. The swing arm design is pretty primitive. Good luck

markjenn · « **Reply #18 on:** May 20, 2008, 03:32:57 PM »

Quote from: rbirkhan on May 20, 2008, 02:35:05 PM

I folowed my friend he was on his 750 last summer and I could see the swingarm twist as he accelerated. I told him about it and we came to the conclusion one of his shocks wasnt really a shock anymore, more like just a a spring. When he accelerated (when the suspension compressed) it was putting a side load on the swingarm.

This sounds like swingarm bushings to me, nothing to do with the shock which doesn't supply any resistance to swingarm twisting - for all practical purposes you can think of the top and bottom of the shocks as mounting with big ball joints which can only resist changes in length.

- Mark

rbirkhan · « **Reply #19 on:** May 21, 2008, 12:25:54 PM »

If you have one shock that is working and one that isnt when you hit a bump or accelerate its not going to apply equal resistance to your swingarm. The working shock is dampened and the other just bounces like a pogo stick. This is a 500 pound bike then add a rider. I have seen the same thing when one fork seal is working and one is blown out you eventually break the fork brace from the undampened side loads. Maybe im wrong call me crazy.

DJ_AX · « **Reply #20 on:** May 21, 2008, 12:33:48 PM »

Quote from: rbirkhan on May 21, 2008, 12:25:54 PM

... Maybe im wrong call me crazy.

your crazy

... and maybe .. just maybe your right ... I don't know but it sounds good.

Raul CB750K1 · « **Reply #21 on:** May 21, 2008, 03:21:50 PM »

Quote from: rbirkhan on May 21, 2008, 12:25:54 PM

If you have one shock that is working and one that isnt when you hit a bump or accelerate its not going to apply equal resistance to your swingarm. The working shock is dampened and the other just bounces like a pogo stick. This is a 500 pound bike then add a rider. I have seen the same thing when one fork seal is working and one is blown out you eventually break the fork brace from the undampened side loads. Maybe im wrong call me crazy.

Does this mean that a powerful sport bike, with a single shock in front of the swingarm, should twist the swingarm?

Bido · « **Reply #22 on:** May 21, 2008, 03:53:28 PM »

I had the clip fall off on my 78 F3 brand new RK 630 chain. The plate was pressed on really well using 2 C clamps and washers for spacers. The plate had not moved a bit. I found when I removed the motor the drive sprocket was on backwards [front sprocket] I don't know if this was the cause but it wore a grove in the case luckily no real damage. It may be worth a look see. The master link was an RK that came with the chain. Now I always take a look at the link before a ride and when I lube the chain.

Bido

Raul CB750K1 · « **Reply #23 on:** May 21, 2008, 10:35:34 PM »

Were the washers provided or you installed them for good measure? I have never seen a master clip with washers.

Steve F · « **Reply #24 on:** May 22, 2008, 01:07:06 AM »

Quote from: Raul CB750K1 on May 21, 2008, 10:35:34 PM

Were the washers provided or you installed them for good measure? I have never seen a master clip with washers.

I think he meant that he used the washers to provide clearance over the ends of the pins as he pressed the side plate on with a clamp. I did something similar when pressing with a c-clamp (since I don't own the proper tool---yet). I have had the clip come off of the stock bike once, but it still has the chain guard. Come to find that when rolling the bike backward, the clip would hang up on the chainguard support and it would pop off. So I recommend checking the chainguard-to-clip clearance.

dpen · « **Reply #25 on:** May 22, 2008, 02:18:29 AM »

With "o" or "x" ring chains use an outer plate or two from the old chain (or excess from the new one)
clamp with a g clamp & leave for about ten minutes
o rings will be compressed and the spring clip will go on with a satisfying "click", never to come off again by itself

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Author Topic: Master link clip on pops off on my chain twice now???? (Read 8842 times)