Topic: buying tools for my 400f - need some direction..

[amemoryoncelost]

 I'm about to start digging into my 77 400f. It runs, but doesn't always idle and I've never had it past 65mph. So I'm going to do it all, from start to finish and go from there. But I don't think I have all the tools I'll be needing and would like to get most of it sorted so I'm not making runs to the parts store every couple of hours. Just want to be able to do a basic tuneup without getting stressed out because I don't have tools. Below is what I think I'll need, please free to comment on that list and if I should be getting anything else. Also, besides the honda shop manual, are there any other manuals I should get my hands on. Is the clymers manual a decent one to pick up, I've heard there are some issues with some sections.

 Morgan carbtune - I've heard this is the best, that it's something I won't regret buying. I just want to get the best possible deal on one of these since it's a spendy item. Anyone know of a cheaper place to get them then their own site? Is there any reason to get the motion pro or another tool for syncing the bike? Something like this: cheapies..
 Feeler Gauges - Will need a set of these, but I've seen the ones at Z1 that have two specific sizes per tool and they have bends in them for "easier" access. I've never adjusted valves on my bike(done it a few times on vw beetles) so I have no idea if the bent ones would be any easier than a classic setup with 50 different sizes in one tool. I think I only need .002 and .003, but it's been a little since I looked at the manual.
 valve adjust tool - not sure of the name, but I've read that adjusting the valves can be a pain, it's a square tip or something. Read that there are special tools for this, but I read that anything with a slot big enough for it will work as well. Read something about a slotted roller pin. If the tool from motion pro is going to make my life easier, I'll pay the extra money as I know I'll be using it enough to warrant the cost.

 Anything else I might need for basic maint. on the bike? Any type of chemicals or cleaners I should pick up while I'm searching for these tools. I did do some searches, but many of the searches came up with stuff directed more towards the 750 and I just want to be safe since I don't have a tree in the backyard with money growing off it unfortunately.

[jaguar]

i like the old school seafoam and this new stuff called power tune.  its made by mercury for outboards but is great stuff.
my fav tool for working on anything old is a good impact driver so you dont strip out the screw heads

[Bodi]

Impact driver!!! necesssary tool #1! (the kind you hit with a hammer, not the big air powered wheel nut thing)
A feeler gauge set is nice, you will need other sizes for the points if you have them. Having a loose tappet gauge is nice, the riveted set is a pain to keep in place. I just cut the tappet one off with scissors and slip it back in the "pack" when done.
I have a tappet tool, the little "stubby screwdriver" that engages the adjuster square end is very helpful. You have to hold back the adjuster when you tighten the nut or it turns down with said nut and reduces the clearance a lot.
The Carbtune is really nice, I have one. If you have a garage where you can screw a mercury carbstik set to a wall and not have to move it, it works just as well for much less $$$. They are a pain (and hazard - mercury is nasty stuff if spilled) if you have to store or move them and shouldn't come in a house.
You will have to improvise a fuel supply to do carb syncing. A long fuel line and double ended nipple works to get the normal tank out of the way.
You should have a xenon timing strobe light. Opinions vary, but I don't think dial-back strobes are worthwhile if you only use it for these bikes. A cheapo basic inductive pickup strobe does the job just fine. A decent dial-back costs a bundle and cheapo ones are not accurate.
Get a grease gun. You can spooge out a bit of grease when you just want to smear it on and when you need to grease the swingarm nothing else will do it. It's surprisingly useful when your front caliper won't come apart, too. The little ones work OK but you have a lot more grease choices with a full size one and they're pretty cheap. I use synthetic grease, for one thing it's a lot cleaner than the moly stuff I had before.

[smccloud]

a father with a tool box of snap-on tools

seriously, get a good timing light, bent feeler gauges, a good plug gapper, impact driver + a  pound hanner for it.  do i have all of these?  no, but i hve access to everything but the bent feeler gauges (snap-on timing light) and will just cut the straight feeler gauges when i need to.

also finda way to get some parience, mine in wrenching on my baby.

[bryanj]

3/8 drive socket set 10mm to 24mm with six sided sockets and fine tooth ratchet

[cafe750]

A multimeter...for diagnosing all sorts of things, and setting timing.  A set of feeler gauges, and a good impact driver. Use 6-point sockets, for it seems that most of the bolts are made from a metal with the consistency of silly putty, especially the tappet covers. I have a 6-point 17mm wrench just for tappet covers. I've got a clymers that you can have, if you want it, and I might have a spare green bindered Honda shop manual too...

[Dave-and-his-550]

my fav tool for working on anything old is a good impact driver so you dont strip out the screw heads

I found mine just today. Was looking all over town (went to tractor supply, two hardware stores) Sure enough, found one sitting on the bottom shelf at Oreiley's Auto Parts store. $12! What a deal! I was so happy I found it

[amemoryoncelost]

oh wow, my checking account might be taking a little hit.
 I have an impact driver, which was cheap anyways, but yeah, life saver for sure, that little tool has paid for itself long ago.
I'll stop by sears with the info about the timing light. I don't have one and have never used one, so that will be something new. I'll pick up a nice socket set as well, maybe hit the pawn shop to save a little money since they usually have craftsman stuff mixed in with it as well.

a good plug gapper

whats a plug gapper. I've always used feeler gauges to adjust the gap in plugs or is this something else?

If you have a garage where you can screw a mercury carbstik set to a wall and not have to move it, it works just as well for much less $$$.

Is this the homeade one people make here on the boards? I have a place to put it on the wall and everything and would be nice to save some money for the socket set and everything else, but if it's more hassle, I'll spend the extra money on the morgan setup. Which I found for $107 in california, if anyone needs the link: here!

thanks for the help so far. Going to pick up some of these basics on Thursday and go from there. Looks like most of my money will be into sockets and the carb sync.

growing list...

[smccloud]

oh wow, my checking account might be taking a little hit.
 I have an impact driver, which was cheap anyways, but yeah, life saver for sure, that little tool has paid for itself long ago.
I'll stop by sears with the info about the timing light. I don't have one and have never used one, so that will be something new. I'll pick up a nice socket set as well, maybe hit the pawn shop to save a little money since they usually have craftsman stuff mixed in with it as well.

a good plug gapper

whats a plug gapper. I've always used feeler gauges to adjust the gap in plugs or is this something else?

If you have a garage where you can screw a mercury carbstik set to a wall and not have to move it, it works just as well for much less $$$.

Is this the homeade one people make here on the boards? I have a place to put it on the wall and everything and would be nice to save some money for the socket set and everything else, but if it's more hassle, I'll spend the extra money on the morgan setup. Which I found for $107 in california, if anyone needs the link: here!

thanks for the help so far. Going to pick up some of these basics on Thursday and go from there. Looks like most of my money will be into sockets and the carb sync.

growing list...

very similar to feeler gauges.  you have to remember, i'm used to working on cars with a set of snap-on tools since my dad used to be an ase certified master mechanic (hurt his back at work).  he has a special set of snap-on feeler gauges for plugs that have a round wire tip and i was always told to use that style instead of a plain feeler gauge for plugs.

[bryanj]

Forget the strobe, all that checks is the advance is working properly----just make a static light from an old idiot light and 2 small crocodile clips, been good enough for all the ones i done over 30 years in the trade and can count on 1 hand the number of times i used a strobe on a Honda 4 (every time i fitted a boyer)

[amemoryoncelost]

Forget the strobe, all that checks is the advance is working properly----just make a static light from an old idiot light and 2 small crocodile clips, been good enough for all the ones i done over 30 years in the trade and can count on 1 hand the number of times i used a strobe on a Honda 4 (every time i fitted a boyer)

 Any more info on this? I haven't done any sort of timing yet, so I'm not even sure where the two clips will be going. I'll be finding out soon enough obviously and I'm not a complete moron, I've done a top end on a smaller four stroke bike and a few two stroke bikes as well as various fixes to the cars over the years.

[destroyer]

A nice dremel with assorted bits has helped me alot in cleaning, cutting, polishing, and removing stuff.  You'd be amazed at the stuff you can do with it when duty calls.

[Gordon]

I agree that it's good to know how to set the timing with a test light, but once you've got that procedure down spend the 25 bucks and treat yourself to a strobe.  It's a nice tool to have. 

It's sort of like doing math.  Of course you know how to do it the old-fashioned way (and everyone should), but don't you also have a calculator on your desk? 

[mattcb350f]

Should be lots of info on static timing procedure on here.

Here's a quick run through....

Basically, you need a light bulb and battery, some wire and two alligator clips. You rig it all together so that when the two alligator clips touch, the light bulb lights.

So, you clip the alligator clips on either side of the points and use it to determine when they open; the light will go out the moment the contact breaks.

On these bikes, you time them so that this moment happens exactly when the "F" mark lines up with the pointer.

Do this on each point set (always after setting the gap) and it's timed

....I think it's in the manual with a more detailed procedure, that's just a quick run through for ya  

 Matt.

[Bodi]

The problem with static timing (yes, it does work) is that the only important setting is full advance, advance units aren't precision and vary in total advance a fair bit. You get the full advance setting right (this is only possible with a strobe) then the idle setting is just what it is. I have never found one that is actually right on the mark. Also, if you are interested in getting more power, you can go a bit past the factory full advance and feel a boost in thrust - but you have to be careful. There's a safety margin built in the factory setting and too much advance or a tank of bad gas can damage the pistons from pinging (hard to feel or hear on a bike). I'm not flaming anyone who is happy with static timing but in about 40 years of working on bikes I have done both and for me the strobe is the right way.
The Dyna 2000 has a built in static timing light, nice - but it doesn't use the mechanical advancer at all. The whole problem with static timing is that it ignores the inaccurate mechanical advancer.

You can still get the carbstik type mercury tool http://www.saber-cycle.com/store/GL1000-GL1100-GL1200Catalog.html and this works nicely, you can to stuff a wad of cigarette filter into the hose for a restrictor if the mercury bounces too much (free tip). The home-made water types are IMO a waste of tubing, time, effort, and grief.

[amemoryoncelost]

 Great info on timing. I have a friend or two who have offered to help me with whatever I need. So I'll have them help me through the first time timing the bike, then deal with if I want to advance it or whatever, hah. I'll be saving this thread obviously and most of this will make even more sense later on. The basic run through by mattcb350f makes perfect sense though. I'll rig something up real quick tomorrow so when whoever helps me, I can have them show me how to do it with that.
 Bodi, thanks for link to the carbstik, not a bad price. Will use that since I don't intend of moving it often or ever.


 Loving all the tips guys, should make for an excellent start to many hours working on these bikes. Feel free to add to the list. I'm adding everything on my list and going to pick some of this stuff up tomorrow. Basically going to look at my order of tune up from TwoTired in another thread and buy accordingly, but isn't a ton of money to drop from the looks of it, so probably should be able to pick most of it up tomorrow!

[Burke]

Torque wrench. Many, if not all, of the fasteners on these bikes have a torque recomendation.

Lead tester or jumper. (two alligator clips and wire)

The Socket needed for Honda Clutches. One can be made from a spare socket with a cut off tool.

Anti seize Compound.

Lok-Tite

This forum.

[kghost]

Factory tool kit if you don't have one....

Ya can basically disassemble the whole bike with it