Topic: Police CB650PZ

[Hush]

So this abused ex POLICE 1979 Honda CB650PZ arrived one day in my shed thanks to my son taking my throw away line of "I have no idea what I will do with 2008" seriously.
Having rebuilt a few twins and a heap of two strokes I thought well how hard could a four cylinder SOHC be?
The PO told my son that the bike had some persistant oil leaks which finally he decided to find and fix but a year after pulling the old motor out he had done nothing else (well I hope he had but events were to tell a slightly different story).
Not knowing what was actually wrong with the bike and being hamstrung by both time and money I decided to plonk the motor back in the bike, run it and see what was wrong with it.
In the meantime I am collecting the various bits that will return it back to the condition the Police must have known it in.
I have had to do some research on the CB650Z and find that this is a rather rare bike worldwide.
Not as liked as its CB750 big brother, the early CB650 was not a big seller in either Australia or New Zealand and was quickly overtaken in US by the much sportier looking Nighthawke.
All this was nice to know but more importantly it explained why parts were sooooo hard to find!
After chasing a few sets of exhaust pipes on Ebay even though the cost of importing them was going to be more than the purchase price of the pipes, it soon became apparent that many others were also seeking the same bits.
So I have devised a strategy that saves my sanity and allows me to move forward with the rebuild, I'll ignore the fact that an ugly set of black 4 into 1's (which probably do add more hp) will hang under my poor 650 until God or Father Christmas delivers a lovely set of chome ones.
In the interim timing a 4 cylinder bike is becoming less of a mystery and now I can try to find out why petrol gets to the carbs but not the cylinders.
The carb bowls were filled with some "green" stuff which defies identification.
Next on my poor mans shopping list is a second hand clutch as the origie plates are thin as razors, more to follow.

[Soos]

I WANT ONE!! 

Where on earth did you find it?
I have never seen a pic of a cb650 looking like that.
CB750's got used by the police, but I was unaware that the 650's were as well.

Thats what I want to do to my '81 650 pretty much....my '79 650 however is another beast....


l8r

[cb650]

I have a pic of one someone posted on one of the 650 sites. 

[Hush]

MOT (Ministry of Transport) here in NZ used quite a few Hondas before finally going to the dark side and using BMW's.
CB750's 650's and even 550's and many still run in their old colours, I rebuilt a CB360 which was ex MOT a few years back as well.

[Hush]

I'm a Corrections Officer (prison Officer) and many of my work mates are ex Police or Mot so they are really good for getting info on old cop bikes and souvenirs like the MOT crest for the pannier bags and windshield.
They tell me that NZ MOT also used the Honda 1000 as well as Yamaha XS650's.
I remember vividly being chased by two Norton Commandos around Palmy North on my Suzuki T350, only got caught cos I didn't know the city ha ha.
Before the Jap stuff showed how superior it was, the local cops rode Triumph Tigress's.
Piece of advice for those rebuilding old police bikes, never ever ever set off a police siren in a steel double garage!!!
But firing up the pole light is real fun at night, ah well it amused me while I pondered how poor the condition of my bike was.
Small success today, after reading a post on this site on jammed choke butterfly I followed the advice and by unscrewing the small holding screws and then opening and closing the chokes manually, they lined up better and after retightening screws I can now remove the ugly heavy duty spring PO had attached.
This also explains why I was going to have to attend the gym regularly to activate the choke! I just knew poppa Honda would not have designed it so badly.
Now just need to reattach (I can hear you all laughing and that's not manners!) the carbs/boots/airbox second hand clutch refill with oil and hey presto I can return to attempting to tune my baby.
One day this engine will run again!

[mystic_1]

Bike looks very nice, from the pic in the first post it looks like the paint is still in good shape   I know that here in the states (or, at least in IL) it's illegal to have moving or rotating lights on a civillian vehicle - any such issues over there?  I suppose so long as you don't go out and pull people over on the roads it won't be a problem lol

cheers
mystic_1

[Hush]

I think there is some loop hole here in NZ where if the bike is sold with all the gear still on it then you are allowed to leave it on.
Although you are not allowed to use the siren and lights on the public roads, I mainly wanted this bike for promotional purposes anyway and fitting a hidden switch somewhere to isolate lights and siren wont be a biggie.
I have to repaint tank(looks better in photo than in RL), front guard, chain guard and siren horn but all the flash white paint came with the bike and bro-inlaw is a restorer of old machines from way back so I'm getting painting done el cheapo.

[Hush]

Will take you up on those pipes if you ever get the ones you want Canuk, my li'l brother is doing a year working in Canada, wonder if they would let him bring them on plane as hand luggage?
I have spare set of side covers which are all sweet as and spare tank in same colours so only tricky bit will be doing the new stripes on tank once painted but have been told that any decent detailer can do this and I have one in immediate family lol.
These CB650's are a bit rare alright, we had plenty of CB750's in NZ, we even had a couple of 750K4's between me and brothers but 650 not so popular in South Pacific area.
I'm looking at a set of pipes on Ebay right now, $70 starting bid, they are not in as good a nick as the last few I have bid on but would settle for a set of headers right now and I'll jam a couple of megaphones on until origies available.

[Hush]

Dear diary, today I found that not only was I blind but also stupid!
After chatting to my nice friendly local bike wrecker (Ian Hunter take a bow) he explained the neccessity for the carb booster pump to be working correctly and ran his micromitor over my clutch plates (all 2.7 and pretty standard).
So rushed home and rebuilt clutch with his advice on touching up the steel separators with a wee bit of light sanding to cut out the grabbing.
Had the carbs on the bench so just on the off chance that I had not cleared the tubes of the pump.
So I'm looking at the pump bits and wondering how in Gods name it is going to work with the spring on the wrong side of the diaphram!!!!
Yes I'd done it again, recalling the four sets of carb floats I had put in upside down, this is gonna be one hell of a learning curve but on the up side I will know every part of my bike intimately which is something I really like to do with bikes that I am going to keep for any length of time.
Tomorrow is another day and it could well be the day she finally wakes from her long deep sleep.....we'lll see

[xProjectx2501]

Beautiful bike. I've always admired police bikes in how the styling is enhanced by the practicality of the modifications. A great balance.

[CBJoe]

The day I don't put something together wrong will be the day I die a happy man .  I'm reminded of the time I tried to block off the air cut-off circuit's from the carbs in my '80 CB650 and I blocked off the wrong inlet tubes.

Beautiful bike.  I've never seen one like it in the states.  Have fun

cheers....Joe

[Hush]

Today is a good day, today all the nights on damp concrete floors in poor light is rewarded.
Musta been that accelerator pump doohicky alright, once the clutch was back in and she was full of oil again I checked the timing (even took cam off again to check those tiny wee marks) plonked the tank back on pressed the starter and nearly flamed the fridge in front of bike ha ha ha..
A fair bit of choke (now they work properly) and about half throttle and VEROOOOOOM.
God I wish I had some pipes, it's always something eh.
Just to test her I put those ugly 4 into 1's on but they don't appear to have ever been run on the bike and they don't line up very well on the head so big gaps and lots nice orange flames lol.
The fact that it started with only half the air boots on ( got sick of trying to align them up ) and nasty cracked up carb to head rubbers indicates to me that the engine cannot be in too bad a nick.
The whole purpose of putting the engine back into the frame was to see if it was worth keeping or I'd go look for a replacement engine.
Anyhow I'm pleased  and tomorrow I'm going shopping for a few goodies that I had been putting off until I heard her run.
This SOHC board is invaluable, I mean seriously I went through every tip/hint/suggestion last night (bed around 1am).
To you garage geniuses out there, many I shall never met in far flung lands I salute you 

[fishman_Phil]

I go along with your comments as well Rick in respect to all the valuable information this forum has. Excellent information within in it, and if you do not find what you are looking for, someone is always quick to reply with helpful information.
Cheers to all of you out there ... Phil in NZ

[cb650]

Canuck i have a set of 4-4 that needs TLC.  would trade you your 4-2.

[Hush]

Ah so nice to see the cooperation of SOHC owners, distance is a #$%*.
I can get something fairly authentic looking here in NZ Troppo, they sell new for about $100 each which is peanuts when you want "the look".

[Hush]

Dear diary, today was not such a good day: after the joy of firing up the old bike I decided that if I have to wait for new pipes I might as well reset the 4 into 1's as I'm not sure how long they will be on bike.
After cleaning out the old exhaust ports I used a tube of muffler goo to make a decent seal and bolted the pipes back up, so far so good.
Brand new battery charging on the bench (gotta charge for 15-20 hours) and my partner did some girlie stuff by attaching the HONDA badge across the forks, she's not a bad engineer and it looks original.
Got the air box tubes correctly attached to the backs of the carbs ( I will never look forward to doing job that ever).
Now the bad stuff, bike fires straight up with some choke and with pipe on properly sounds less like a jumbo jet, problem now is the bike is quiet enough to hear a rattle/clatter/can of stones being shaken?
I can't track down the exact area of the sound but it does go away when the revs are increased?
Almost sounds like clutch plates flying around in there, but no oil leaks or bad vibrations.
What the Hell else makes noises like that?
Sounds expensive 

[DarkRider]

Could be a loose clutch, clutch basket, cam chain, carbs may need to be synced..im sure im missing other posabilities..others will more then likely chime in.

[Hush]

Cheers Darkrider, you are thinking along the same lines as me.

[DarkRider]

I must say i like the bike man...i wish i could find something like that in my neck of the woods..or at least something i can work with to make into a replica..

[Hush]

The one I use for my profile is actually for sale in th eSouth Island on www.trademe.co.nz and that guy has a starting bid of $15000 Kiwi for it!
Mine arrived in bits and boxes and has taken me months to get running but I have all the bits to return it to it's original glory.
It's kinda special and unique which appeals to me, fingers crossed that noise is just wind.
Picture attached is my bike, not as pretty but also not costing me 15k.

[DarkRider]

What would that be in canadian currency any one know? Oh well im sure one day i will locate a sutible CB650 base bike...

[Hush]

Would it matter much if I left a small part of the clutch mechanism out?
Yeah I know I'm having blond moments daily with this bike.
I've been back reading my workshop manual and notice that a part I thought was from another project is actually from this Honda!
It's quite a minor part but might explain the thought that I believed the sound to be like clutch plates rattling.
Ok ok I left the "bearing retainer" out when i reasembled the clutch today!!!  (ducks behind computer as various Honda parts are thrown at me from around the world)
Now I don't want to try to downplay my error but would the omission of this wee thing cause the sounds I described?
I now have to drain the oil, drop the foot brake and peg off, disconnect clutch cable and undo a dozen bolts to remove the casing so I can put back into the clutch hub the small flanged retainer GRRRRRRRRRRRRRR!!!!!
Yes it's my fault, yes I put my carb floats in upside down, yes I put the spring on the accelerator pump on wrong side of diaphram.......but it doesn't make me a bad person...does it?
I'm kinda smiling even though I have given myself a lot of extra work, you see the clutch did not feel right and even though I have never ridden this bike I have had a few bikes over the years and I did not like the feel of that clutch.......now I know why, there would have been no actual activating of the clutch mechanism as such and the system would simply have been flexing on the plates without moving them apart.
This is probably also a good thing because had I attempted to put bike into gear it would either have stalled or shot me across the road...
Anyhow tomorrow is another day and I shall be in my garage for a fair bit of it...............

[Hush]

Dear diary, today things went better: Having realised my error in omitting the clutch part I stripped the side cover off the engine "again" and sure enough there was the thrust bearing just sitting inside the clutch basket doing nothing!
At least there were no big piles of metal filings like I feared, my partner was giggling at me repeating my mantra of "please don't be broken please don't be broken" as I took the side cover off.
And so now the clutch works, I didn't think it felt right before.
So all back together and started her up again, not such a racket as last time but at low revs still a noticable rattle.
Some of the suggestions from the board on here reccomended re tensioning the timing chain, I thought I had already done this but after following the correct steps by the book (Clymers bible) I am able to report that the noise is even less.
Not completely gone but getting more bareable.
Awaiting on new battery to fully charge (been on for 24 hours now) and then the bike will be somewhat complete, well as much as i need it to be to test the motor and see how strong it really is............Hush.

[Hush]

Dear diary, today went pretty well actually: New battery took an inexcusable 24 hours to charge up but fires the bike up easily so all good.
Still yet to ride her any where but all works so a test drive can't be too far off.
Police Officer son has sussed out what I need to do to get her road legal again, not cheap but hey come this far.
Missed out on those "cheap" pipes on Ebay, no way to get them freighted here to NZ so stuck with 4 into 1's for time being.
Front crash bar will not fit because of exhaust set up so thats going to have to stay off until original pipes sourced.
Have decided not to fit all the Police gear to bike until it is Vinned and registered, explaining lights and sirens might be a mission.
Will attempt to establish wiring for them in the interim, Jaffa says I need a helmet, guess she is right and will look out for one on Trademe........
Quite pleased with my day on reflection, rolling frame now looks like a real bike with seat and side covers back on ......Hush.

[troppo]

G`day hush
I`d spring for a new helmet myself, cant get a replacement head if its a wrongun