Topic: using an engine that has been sitting outside uncovered

[JAG]

This is stemming from my other long post about my oil pressure....

This other engine that I have has been sitting outside for a few months so there is no way of knowing what kind of crap has made it's way through it, especially water due to rain. Does anyone have any knowledge about working with something like this? I was thinking I was going to try and hook it up and see if it even turns over, if not maybe using some PBlaster or other penetrating lubricant and allowing it to sit and see if that frees anything up. I think maybe you can just turn the kick starter and see if it rotates- is that true? My biggest concern however is rust. My good friend wasn't smart enough to atleast cover the motor, so for the past few months there is no telling what it has endured, but atleast I know when he had it, it ran like a charm, and ATLEAST had oil pressure. Maybe I'll be able to ride with that one until winter, and rebuild his engine.

Has anyone had any experience with using an engine that has been sitting outside uncovered.. It has no carbs on it, and it has sitting with the carbs inlets facing up, for a few months??

Rust possibility a problem?

Could one take the heads off and peer down inside to see the overall condition of the motor, and know whether or not the engine has in fact endure negative things due to exposure to the elements?

What do you guys think?

JAG

[Klark Kent]

it has been sitting in the weather with open intakes pointed up?  if you can still remove the head, tear it down.  i would love to see what it looks like in there, but i would be shocked if it wasnt a whole lotta rusty.

[JAG]

That's what I am thinking. If it's a whole lot a rusty, is it still salvageable? Can the rust be removed, or do you think it'll be pitted all over the place?

I'm going to pick it up tomorrow, and I'll take some pictures and add it to this thread.

Quick test, if the kick starter can turn it over, will that give me an idea if it's locked up or not?

[bistromath]

If it's not locked up you're probably okay. If it is locked up, you can try to break it free and you might be okay. Otherwise, it's rebuild time.

[750K2]

oh the humanity  leaving a poor defensless engine exposed to the elements like that.   pull the plugs and see what drains out.  maybe you can pull the oil pump off of it?  let us know.

[JAG]

oh the humanity  leaving a poor defensless engine exposed to the elements like that.   pull the plugs and see what drains out.  maybe you can pull the oil pump off of it?  let us know.

I'm tellin ya!!! It sorta pisses me off, to know of all the people on here that work hard to get there engines running smoothly, and me, as well, for that matter, and to see that a friend of mine bought a perfectly good running 75 750K and chopped up the frame to get the motor out, so he could use it and make a chopper. Messed with it for about a month, lost interest, and there it sits. Not thinking to cover the #*$%ing thing up.

Oh well it is free, and it is worth a shot.

I did pull the pump off, and that what I am currently using on my bike. But I don't belive it will fix my problems...

If it's not locked up you're probably okay. If it is locked up, you can try to break it free and you might be okay. Otherwise, it's rebuild time.

If I go about breaking this one free, what is the best method to use??

[JAG]

Remove the plugs, spray some lube down the holes. Crank the engine over. If it's not siezed, use it. If it's okay, you'll be alright. If it's not, you would have had to rebuild it anyway. At least this way you may save yourself a rebuild.

When you say lube, do you mean just using fresh oil? Or some sort of penetrating lubricant?

Anyone have any experience using PBlaster??

[bistromath]

Use 50/50 acetone and ATF. Let it sit for a couple of days, then try breaking it free. Of course, that assumes that you've already tried to turn it over without using penetrating lube. You don't have to whale on it, just see if the kickstart is free, then go about all the dirty work if you have to.

[JAG]

Gotcha...

I'll give it a turn tomorrow, when I pick her up..  She's heavy, but some people like em big.  just kidding.

I'll post some pics as well.

[Hush]

I'm with Cannuk on this, use anything slippery to lube it, if it frees up chuck some carbs on it and start it up.
If it rattles to death its cooozed, my experience on old Honda's is that they seal up beautifully and even though some dumbasse owners leave them in swamps and rain they are pretty forgiving.

[mrbreeze]

I hope it works out for you dude!!!!!......Why,why,why  do PEOPLE leave any kind of running engine out in the elements(not to mention with open intake/and or exhaust sitting straight up for water to fall into it) ??  I would just have to slap that dude in the head!!!

[JAG]

If it rattles to death its cooozed

Not sure what cooozed means!  Got a definition??

Okay went to go pick her up. Like I said before it was laying on it's back with the intake in the air-no carbs. When I went to turn it over, water poured out of each of the intake holes..  Ouch.

Tried the kick starter, it wouldn't budge..  As you'll notice in the pics, some covers are pleasantly missing, making things a bit more unnerving..

You'll also see the rust build up inside the intakes.. Don't like that either.. There's no telling what it's going to look like on the inside..

So firsts things first, get the spark plugs out, and go to town with the lube..

Is there any specific way to go about this? Specifically should I only pour the lube down the spark plug holes? Any suggestions on cleaning the intake side, relieving it of rust?

Anything else I should do while it's not hooked up to anything?

This probably should be in the "Project" area of the forum, because I believe this might be quite an undertaking..  I'm also going to go back and re read the post about rebuilding for dummies, and I think there is another one about "starting an old rusty......" something or another..

And away we GO

[JAG]

Well it broke loose...

Word to wise, keep the head on while you do this..

It shot 10 feet clean across to the other side of the garage and I got ATF all over my corvette stingray

But like I said, it got broke loose.

[JAG]

What a messin F'IN job.. I didn't figure fluid to start shooting out everywhere..

Maybe I put to much in?!?

[750K2]

welll good show! but best to put down everything and get that vette cleaned...like right now.  something tells me that a mixture that can eat rust like that won't be very good for such a gorgeous machine's finish

[JAG]

I did drop everything, and went attending to the vette. Whew.. Cover caught mostly everything..

Thanks for the encouraging words canuck..  I'm going to probably stop for today. Let what's left in there soak overnight. And try it again tomorrow, with the valve cover on it, and something to block up the exhaust, because it shot out of there too.

[mystic_1]

So, since the engine rotates it's definitely salvageable, depending on your definition of "salvageable".  If it were my engine I'd at least strip it down, clean everything, and reassemble with fresh gaskets, rings etc.  You may be able to get away with less than a complete rebuild, but why take the chance.  From the looks of the intake valves alone there's obviously a lot of rust inside there, although the rocker area doesn't look too bad.

mystic_1

[scondon]

 Jag, glad your 'vette survived the torrent. Thanks for the pics, they were priceless

  The first motor I worked on was outside for the Winter and the cylinders were caked with over 1/2" of rust above the pistons. That engine definitely did not turn over. Fortunately the rust was limited to the cylinders/rings and valve stems. The rest of the motor was in really smooth shape.

 The valves can be removed and cleaned up, then test for guide clearance and seal at the seats. Maybe just a valve lap to get the head in good shape.

  You most definitely want to pull the head and inspect the cylinders at this point. I'll send ya a free head gasket if they're usable as is

[JAG]

After I got over the initial shock and cursing of the explosion of fluids over everything, I laughed to myself a bit..  To me, if it shoots across the garage that far, compression may be pretty good? haha

I will definitely go through the whole motor, atleast down to inspect the pistons/cylinders. And when I get that far I'll holler at ya scondon, and thank you.

I just spent the last 2 hours reading http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=29364.msg302621#msg302621 and it has relieved some initial stress and pressure over tackling this job.

I was really wanting to use my other engine, that isn't giving me great oil pressure, and kind of combining the two, getting the most out of it, without spending that much money. I also saw from that other topic it should cost around $300, or so I am hoping, because I am doing all the work myself. Also got to pick up a torque wrench..

At any rate I have the thing apart, with the help of my inconsiderate friend (who left it to uncertain doom) , so I'll definitely go through it. As far as the rust, it does worry me a bit, I can only imagine what it will look like past the rocker area. I even took off the points cover, and as I unscrewed it, water even came out of there.. (sigh) I may be in over my head, and I soon shall see. The engine was free, so I cannot complain to much. I just wanted to save it from becoming more worse.

I'll post every step of the way including pictures, (Even the funny ones  ) and I'll definitely need yalls guidance.

[bistromath]

Welp. On the plus side, if you're planning on rebuilding this one, and you're pretty sure a worn crank bearing is causing your low oil pressure, I say ride the other one 'til it seizes! 

[JAG]

Here are some extra pictures.

One of the rockers, Seems to be okay, visually.

One of the points, how they took a beaten via condesation/moisture

And two of the A.C. Generator. Do you think it can be salvaged? Can I take it through a wire brush and knock off the rust, or do you think it needs to be replaced?

Also found something I overlooked. There is two pictures of a intake collar, that's supposed to hold the rubber boots on that has been broken off. Do those unscrew out? If so there is a little lip there, that I may (hopefully) be able to get a hold of and it pulled/unscrewed out. And ideas?

[JAG]

broken collar

[JAG]

Welp. On the plus side, if you're planning on rebuilding this one, and you're pretty sure a worn crank bearing is causing your low oil pressure, I say ride the other one 'til it seizes! 

That's my idea anyhow..  I've tried using an almost new oil pump, from this motor I am going to rebuild, in it and it didn't make a difference what so ever. Also after seeing the metal flakes/particles in the oil pan, I am almost certain that is what's going on. Atleast that is what I have learned from the forum here. I heard you can find it via the oil filter, but I never saw any in there and never suspected it to be the crank until I tried two pumps, and finally saw the metal chips resting at the bottom.

I remember all sorts of older cars that I have been around. And I know that after years of wear and tear they can't have that great of oil pressure but they still go strong, considering you don't abuse them, or ride them around low on oil. I have been waiting to ride all summer, and I am about to get my tank and seat back from the painters. I am Determined to ride. And yes, in the mean time I'm trying to work on my, not so credible, back up plan. But hopefully it can be done.

[RRRToolSolutions]

Jag, sorry to come in here so late. I've been working on my own mecahanical challenges for the last couple of days.

Here are a few photos of encouragement - all of these were stuck, rusted motors and someone else's junk. My wife asked me more than once to take these straight to the dump - in spite of the fact I paid and drove long distances to retrieve each one -

Yes, there is a rainbow, you just have to take your time and never look at the other end - take each day's task and before you know it, the fun is all over and you have to go find the next project bike. Seriously - clean cost nothing. Take your time, ask lots of questions, read, read some more. It's the most rewarding part of the hobbie for me.

Gordon

In order - CB750, CB450 Black Bomber, H2/Mach IV

[JAG]

is it necessary to use these special tools:

"Rocker Arm Shaft Remover" Tool No. 07050-30001

And Tool No. 07906-3230000 (Doesn't give a name) to loosen 6mm bolts on either sides after separating the cylinder head from the cylinder?

It's found on page 34 of the shop manual.