« previous next »
Pages: 1 2 [3] 4   Go Down

Author Topic: using an engine that has been sitting outside uncovered  (Read 16652 times)

0 Members and 3 Guests are viewing this topic.

Offline scondon

  • No way my run was THAT slow, must be an
  • Old Timer
  • ******
  • Posts: 3,137
  • Mmmm......tasty bugs
Re: using an engine that has been sitting outside uncovered
« Reply #50 on: June 12, 2008, 11:39:02 PM »
Quote from: JAG on June 12, 2008, 06:30:42 PM
Quote from: scondon on June 12, 2008, 05:41:01 PM
    It is rough and nasty to the touch and completely normal in an old engine, in my opinion. I'm sure the ring around your cylinders is covered in rusty goo at the moment but a scotch-brite pad and a little muscle oughta do wonders.

So in your opinion, since the piston  heads and cylinder walls are nice and smooth, I should just go at it with a scotch-brite pad and not worry about honing, or polishing the walls?


    Just wanted to point out that the nasty looking ring of muck/rust at the top of each cylinder is probably just rust coated carbon deposits and a bit of cleaning should confirm this.

     I would take the rings off the pistons in order to clean the piston ring grooves and insure that no rust or carbon debris is caught behind the rings. If you've got the coin then go ahead get new rings and give the cylinders a light hone as chrislib suggests. Or you could put the rings back on the pistons they came off of and the pistons back in the holes they were in, button the motor up with a reconditioned head and see how it does.

  Whatever you choose to do it is essential that the top end and its components are clean and free of debris. You can gamble your time plus the cost of a gasket set and just reassemble it after cleaning or you can start adding parts and machine work to help boost your chances that you'll only need to do this once. I've spent from $150-$3500 putting 750 engines together and am glad I went cheap with the first couple of 'em because that's how I learned what not to do, what to look for, and what areas are most prone to be buggered by my wrenching hand ;) :)
Logged
Give me..a frame to build a bike on, and my imagination will build upon that frame

Offline mrbreeze

  • Not your average
  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 5,902
  • Shut up when you're talkin' to me!!
Re: using an engine that has been sitting outside uncovered
« Reply #51 on: June 13, 2008, 09:13:27 PM »
Unless you don't mind pulling the motor(again) and wasting a gasket set....I suggest doing it top notch the first time around.You can do it on the cheap and reuse old parts but it would be better to re-ring and hone. The first time mine sh!ts out....it will get an 836 kit for sure!!!!!
Logged
MEMBER # 257
Fool me once..shame on you. Fool me twice..I'm kickin' your a$$......

Offline JAG

  • Expert
  • ****
  • Posts: 907
  • '74 CB750K, '72 CB500, '76 550K
Re: using an engine that has been sitting outside uncovered
« Reply #52 on: June 14, 2008, 12:12:24 PM »
Well I just realized that the piston ring set is $40 per piston, not for ALL the pistons. Sooo, it's going to take me another week to get the money together.

Through Cycle X you can get a set for the big bore kit moving up to an 836cc for $249.99. So it seems like it is almost better to get that kit, get the cylinders bored out and go at it that way..? Unless I'm wrong about the prices for the piston ring sets.

Also I tested the valves by turning them over and pouring gas on them, and found two that were leaking. So it looks as if I am going to replace two of them I might as well replace ALL of them. Also seen at Cycle X all 8 valve set for $148.

If I were to keep the piston heads that I have now, is it possible to scrub smooth the top of the heads with a scotch brite pad, like I would with the top of the each cylinder?
Logged
Cafe Racing is mainly a matter of taste. It is an atavistic mentality, a peculiar mix of low style, high speed, pure dumbness, and overweening commitment to the Cafe Life and all its dangerous pleasures. I am a Cafe Racer myself, on some days - and it is one of my finest addictions. ~H. S. Thompson~

Offline JAG

  • Expert
  • ****
  • Posts: 907
  • '74 CB750K, '72 CB500, '76 550K
Re: using an engine that has been sitting outside uncovered
« Reply #53 on: June 14, 2008, 12:18:41 PM »
Also going to try and get that broken flange out. But as you can see on the 2nd page there isn't much sticking out, and I'm sure once I go heating it up and knocking around on it, the little piece of flange is just going to break off, and the rest of it is forever going to be stuck inside the intake..

I thought about using my the other one, off my engine that is about to go "ka-put". And I think it would be better to use the one that I know has all good flanges, and perhaps do the valve job on that one instead.
Logged
Cafe Racing is mainly a matter of taste. It is an atavistic mentality, a peculiar mix of low style, high speed, pure dumbness, and overweening commitment to the Cafe Life and all its dangerous pleasures. I am a Cafe Racer myself, on some days - and it is one of my finest addictions. ~H. S. Thompson~

Offline bunghole

  • Hot Shot
  • ***
  • Posts: 649
Re: using an engine that has been sitting outside uncovered
« Reply #54 on: June 15, 2008, 10:24:41 AM »
Intake Flange:

I was trying to take out the broken one and ended up with a situation like yours.  Instead of removing the remnants, I had the local machine shop weld the new flange on there.  Its got a big honkin' weld bead on it now, but I'll grind and smooth that and I don't think it will look too bad.

By the way, if you have a local machine shop that is good, they can clean that engine up for you in no time.  I actually had mine back same day on Saturday.  That included the welded flange, hot tank and blasting, and machining the decks smooth.  They look great now.
Logged
'05 HD FLSTCI (Heritage)
'06 Suzuki DRZ400S
'08 Honda VFR800
'77 Honda CB750K

Offline scondon

  • No way my run was THAT slow, must be an
  • Old Timer
  • ******
  • Posts: 3,137
  • Mmmm......tasty bugs
Re: using an engine that has been sitting outside uncovered
« Reply #55 on: June 15, 2008, 12:04:08 PM »
Quote from: JAG on June 14, 2008, 12:12:24 PM
Well I just realized that the piston ring set is $40 per piston, not for ALL the pistons. Sooo, it's going to take me another week to get the money together.

Through Cycle X you can get a set for the big bore kit moving up to an 836cc for $249.99. So it seems like it is almost better to get that kit, get the cylinders bored out and go at it that way..? Unless I'm wrong about the prices for the piston ring sets.

Also I tested the valves by turning them over and pouring gas on them, and found two that were leaking. So it looks as if I am going to replace two of them I might as well replace ALL of them. Also seen at Cycle X all 8 valve set for $148.

If I were to keep the piston heads that I have now, is it possible to scrub smooth the top of the heads with a scotch brite pad, like I would with the top of the each cylinder?

     Cycle-X can also send you a cylinder bored to their pistons for around $200 in exchange for your old cylinders, a pretty good package deal.

      New valves will still need to be cut and lapped to the seats so look beyond the purchase price. I would just try lapping the valves you have unless the stems are damaged or you want to go to a larger size.

     Trust me, once you start thinking big bore and adding cam and headwork to take advantage of it just move your base engine rebuilding cost to $1500 and expect to add to it. You can get away with under $1000 by just adding the pistons + cam and using the best head in your arsenal but for sure you will want to insure the valves seat and check the threaded cam tower holes as these often need helicoiling.

     A scotch brite pad is fine for cleaning the carbon from your pistons. I forget what kind of cleaner will aid the process, anyone have the answer? brake cleaner? Oven cleaner?
Logged
Give me..a frame to build a bike on, and my imagination will build upon that frame

Offline bunghole

  • Hot Shot
  • ***
  • Posts: 649
Re: using an engine that has been sitting outside uncovered
« Reply #56 on: June 16, 2008, 08:48:53 AM »
I used some EZ Off Oven Cleaner.  Worked incredibly well.  However, it might discolor aluminum if you let it sit too long.
Logged
'05 HD FLSTCI (Heritage)
'06 Suzuki DRZ400S
'08 Honda VFR800
'77 Honda CB750K

Offline mystic_1

  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 6,071
  • 1970 CB750K
Re: using an engine that has been sitting outside uncovered
« Reply #57 on: June 16, 2008, 11:29:08 AM »
+1 on EZ-Off.  Get the low-fume stuff.  Brush with a brass-bristled brush after an hour or so to loosen the chunky stuff.  Soak another hour or so and rinse off.

mystic_1
Logged
"A ship in harbor is safe, but that is not what ships are built for."
- John Augustus Shedd

My build thread:  http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=68952.0

Offline JAG

  • Expert
  • ****
  • Posts: 907
  • '74 CB750K, '72 CB500, '76 550K
Re: using an engine that has been sitting outside uncovered
« Reply #58 on: June 16, 2008, 12:21:02 PM »
I'm having a hard time finding an intake flange.. I'll be looking over ebay for one. Anyone know of a aftermarket place to get one?
Logged
Cafe Racing is mainly a matter of taste. It is an atavistic mentality, a peculiar mix of low style, high speed, pure dumbness, and overweening commitment to the Cafe Life and all its dangerous pleasures. I am a Cafe Racer myself, on some days - and it is one of my finest addictions. ~H. S. Thompson~

Offline JAG

  • Expert
  • ****
  • Posts: 907
  • '74 CB750K, '72 CB500, '76 550K
Re: using an engine that has been sitting outside uncovered
« Reply #59 on: June 16, 2008, 02:47:59 PM »
i think I am going to have a professional hone and clean up my cylinders.. If I have to take it to a machinist to have the flange welded on, I might as well get all of it done.. I don't have the proper measuring devices, to mic the cylinder walls and what not, to see how far they have to go. There is just to many variables when doing this by my self. I'd rather not screw anything up. I will however, go ahead and scotch-brite the piston heads and the top of the cylinder walls as suggested. I can atleast, hopefully, manage that.

I went ahead and stopped by Auto Zone to see if they have a piston reemer and honing device. And the good news I have found for anyone wanting to do this themselves is that you can rent the hone for $20 dollars, and a piston reemer/lathe style, for $30. Keep it as long as you want. When you return it, you get your money back. I just thought that it was a good deal to pass along to the other do-it-yourself types.
Logged
Cafe Racing is mainly a matter of taste. It is an atavistic mentality, a peculiar mix of low style, high speed, pure dumbness, and overweening commitment to the Cafe Life and all its dangerous pleasures. I am a Cafe Racer myself, on some days - and it is one of my finest addictions. ~H. S. Thompson~

Offline scondon

  • No way my run was THAT slow, must be an
  • Old Timer
  • ******
  • Posts: 3,137
  • Mmmm......tasty bugs
Re: using an engine that has been sitting outside uncovered
« Reply #60 on: June 16, 2008, 02:51:27 PM »
 Wow, that is pretty cool JAG, thanks for sharing :)

   I am the same as you, I leave the critical areas and machine work to the pros ;)
Logged
Give me..a frame to build a bike on, and my imagination will build upon that frame

Offline bunghole

  • Hot Shot
  • ***
  • Posts: 649
Re: using an engine that has been sitting outside uncovered
« Reply #61 on: June 16, 2008, 02:54:40 PM »
Quote from: scondon on June 16, 2008, 02:51:27 PM
Wow, that is pretty cool JAG, thanks for sharing :)

   I am the same as you, I leave the critical areas and machine work to the pros ;)

Where are you located?
Logged
'05 HD FLSTCI (Heritage)
'06 Suzuki DRZ400S
'08 Honda VFR800
'77 Honda CB750K

Offline bunghole

  • Hot Shot
  • ***
  • Posts: 649
Re: using an engine that has been sitting outside uncovered
« Reply #62 on: June 16, 2008, 02:55:59 PM »
Never mind.  I just checked your profile.  I was going to recommend a shop in So Cal if you lived in the area.
Logged
'05 HD FLSTCI (Heritage)
'06 Suzuki DRZ400S
'08 Honda VFR800
'77 Honda CB750K

Offline scondon

  • No way my run was THAT slow, must be an
  • Old Timer
  • ******
  • Posts: 3,137
  • Mmmm......tasty bugs
Re: using an engine that has been sitting outside uncovered
« Reply #63 on: June 16, 2008, 02:59:41 PM »
Quote from: bunghole on June 16, 2008, 02:55:59 PM
Never mind.  I just checked your profile.  I was going to recommend a shop in So Cal if you lived in the area.

   Who do you use, bunghole(haha, love it). I'll be shipping any future cylinder work out anyway since my local guy is too much $$$ ( 75 a hole for the big bores ) and takes half a year to get them back. Was thinking of using APE next time.
Logged
Give me..a frame to build a bike on, and my imagination will build upon that frame

Offline bunghole

  • Hot Shot
  • ***
  • Posts: 649
Re: using an engine that has been sitting outside uncovered
« Reply #64 on: June 16, 2008, 03:29:23 PM »
Quote from: scondon on June 16, 2008, 02:59:41 PM
Quote from: bunghole on June 16, 2008, 02:55:59 PM
Never mind.  I just checked your profile.  I was going to recommend a shop in So Cal if you lived in the area.

   Who do you use, bunghole(haha, love it). I'll be shipping any future cylinder work out anyway since my local guy is too much $$$ ( 75 a hole for the big bores ) and takes half a year to get them back. Was thinking of using APE next time.

I used Ali's Machine Shop in Signal Hill CA, but I only used him for cleaning and surfacing the decks.  I asked him if he could overbore my cylinders and he doesn't have small enough bores as he does mostly car stuff.  I paid $110 for cleaning and surfacing of the head and cylinders.  He also welded my number one intake flange.  He got it back to me same day on a Saturday, so I was happy.

I also just realized that I live right around the corner from Branch Flowmetrics and they ported and polished my Harley heads.  I've seen their shop and its like pyramids of gleaming jewels.  But unfortunately, they no longer touch anything but Harleys.

Does APE do nice work?  Anyone know what they cost for various work?
Logged
'05 HD FLSTCI (Heritage)
'06 Suzuki DRZ400S
'08 Honda VFR800
'77 Honda CB750K

Offline scondon

  • No way my run was THAT slow, must be an
  • Old Timer
  • ******
  • Posts: 3,137
  • Mmmm......tasty bugs
Re: using an engine that has been sitting outside uncovered
« Reply #65 on: June 16, 2008, 03:43:49 PM »
 APE has been doing nice work for a long time. I've only gotten crank work and heavy duty studs from them so far but am happy with the quality and service. Big Jay is a member here and just lately is working on getting some high strength rods made for the 750's at a price less than Falicon or Carillo's. See the "connecting rods" sticky at the top of this page.

http://www.aperaceparts.com/
Logged
Give me..a frame to build a bike on, and my imagination will build upon that frame

Offline JAG

  • Expert
  • ****
  • Posts: 907
  • '74 CB750K, '72 CB500, '76 550K
Re: using an engine that has been sitting outside uncovered
« Reply #66 on: June 16, 2008, 04:31:37 PM »
any suggestions on finding that intake flange, or should I just go to my local honda dealer?
Logged
Cafe Racing is mainly a matter of taste. It is an atavistic mentality, a peculiar mix of low style, high speed, pure dumbness, and overweening commitment to the Cafe Life and all its dangerous pleasures. I am a Cafe Racer myself, on some days - and it is one of my finest addictions. ~H. S. Thompson~

Offline bunghole

  • Hot Shot
  • ***
  • Posts: 649
Re: using an engine that has been sitting outside uncovered
« Reply #67 on: June 16, 2008, 04:38:33 PM »
JAG,

I might be able to pull one off a donor head I have, but it might be a bit chewed up.  I also may destroy it completely in the process, but I'll give it a go.  If I can get one, I'll be happy to send it out to you.  I'll see if I can try tonight, but its my anniversary, so I could possibly also get in trouble if caught in the garage with a wrench and grease on my hands :)
Logged
'05 HD FLSTCI (Heritage)
'06 Suzuki DRZ400S
'08 Honda VFR800
'77 Honda CB750K

Offline scondon

  • No way my run was THAT slow, must be an
  • Old Timer
  • ******
  • Posts: 3,137
  • Mmmm......tasty bugs
Re: using an engine that has been sitting outside uncovered
« Reply #68 on: June 16, 2008, 04:41:06 PM »
   Keep asking JAG, and post in Parts Wanted.  They don't show up as a separate part on any fiche I've looked at and some one here has got to have a bungered head that they can pull one from.


   And bunghole steps to the plate as I type :) :)
Logged
Give me..a frame to build a bike on, and my imagination will build upon that frame

Offline JAG

  • Expert
  • ****
  • Posts: 907
  • '74 CB750K, '72 CB500, '76 550K
Re: using an engine that has been sitting outside uncovered
« Reply #69 on: June 16, 2008, 05:59:15 PM »
Sweet..  I really do appreciate it!

But I'd highly recommend you not getting greasy on your anniversary.. My wife absolutely hates it when we go out for a special occasion and my fingernails have dirt and grit in them from a few hours before our evening. (When I went out and secretly turned a few wrenches while she was getting ready)  :P
Logged
Cafe Racing is mainly a matter of taste. It is an atavistic mentality, a peculiar mix of low style, high speed, pure dumbness, and overweening commitment to the Cafe Life and all its dangerous pleasures. I am a Cafe Racer myself, on some days - and it is one of my finest addictions. ~H. S. Thompson~

Offline bunghole

  • Hot Shot
  • ***
  • Posts: 649
Re: using an engine that has been sitting outside uncovered
« Reply #70 on: June 17, 2008, 08:51:48 AM »
Hah!  I came home from work yesterday right as she was coming home from work.  I got out of the car in my white collar clothes and grabbed a dirty gas tank that was delivered to my office from Ebay out of the back of my truck.  She didn't even flinch.  She must be getting used to my obsession :)

And JAG.  I'll see what I can do tonight.  I think I have free garage reign as I haven't been out there in two days.
Logged
'05 HD FLSTCI (Heritage)
'06 Suzuki DRZ400S
'08 Honda VFR800
'77 Honda CB750K

Offline JAG

  • Expert
  • ****
  • Posts: 907
  • '74 CB750K, '72 CB500, '76 550K
Re: using an engine that has been sitting outside uncovered
« Reply #71 on: June 17, 2008, 10:55:47 AM »
Hahaha.. Thank you sooo very much bunghole.. I really do greatly appreciate it!

Oh how I love days of having free reign in the garage!!
Logged
Cafe Racing is mainly a matter of taste. It is an atavistic mentality, a peculiar mix of low style, high speed, pure dumbness, and overweening commitment to the Cafe Life and all its dangerous pleasures. I am a Cafe Racer myself, on some days - and it is one of my finest addictions. ~H. S. Thompson~

Offline bunghole

  • Hot Shot
  • ***
  • Posts: 649
Re: using an engine that has been sitting outside uncovered
« Reply #72 on: June 17, 2008, 09:14:32 PM »
Jag,

500 ft lbs of torque from an pneumatic impact wrench and...



The threads are pretty shot, but if you're welding them in, no problem.  PM your address and I'll ship them out to you.
« Last Edit: June 27, 2008, 09:57:15 AM by bunghole »
Logged
'05 HD FLSTCI (Heritage)
'06 Suzuki DRZ400S
'08 Honda VFR800
'77 Honda CB750K

Offline mrbreeze

  • Not your average
  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 5,902
  • Shut up when you're talkin' to me!!
Re: using an engine that has been sitting outside uncovered
« Reply #73 on: June 17, 2008, 09:21:30 PM »
You guys rock!!!!!......Its so cool when a bro helps a bro out!!!!! 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8)
Logged
MEMBER # 257
Fool me once..shame on you. Fool me twice..I'm kickin' your a$$......

Offline Hush

  • Finally they realise that I am an
  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 6,761
  • "Lady, I've heard it all before"!
Re: using an engine that has been sitting outside uncovered
« Reply #74 on: June 18, 2008, 12:28:09 AM »
Nice one BH, as Mr Breeze observed.....Honda guys...feel the love. ;D
Just an aside, can you glue these suckers in with some heavy duty industrial strength glue?
Logged
I think the thing I most like about motorcycling is the speed at which my brain must process information at to avoid the numb skulls who are eating pies, playing the ukulele, applying make-up etc in the comfort of their airconditioned armchairs as they make random attempts to kill me!!!!!!!
Pages: 1 2 [3] 4   Go Up
« previous next »