Author Topic: Yeah, Yeah I know...Buffo and his God D@mn carbs!!!  (Read 2667 times)

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Buffo

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Yeah, Yeah I know...Buffo and his God D@mn carbs!!!
« on: August 25, 2005, 04:37:19 PM »
Well. I have turned my pilot screws out so far that I have forgotten how many turns. It runs pretty good. Actually I have turned them so far out that I am not real sure if it would anything when I turned them anymore....however I am able to travel at a low rpm without much fuss from my bike. But it is happier at rpms above 3500.

Sense this is my first bike like this one I have no reference to what it is supposed to be like. It is kinda acting like a CBR600f2 that I use to have. which was not happy at all at lower rpms. Anywho back to the CB750k8.

At 3500 rpms it turns into a roaring beast from hell and pulls like MAD and I mean MAD all the way to 8000.  Is the low rpm range on these...wanting?

Another question is...I have pulled my carbs of God knows how many times. I have checked and rechecked my slow jets at least 4 times...they are clean. but when I turn the pilot screws It only makes a noticable difference in rpms on when the second (or maybe the third...I cant remember) pilot screw is turned. the rest of them dont chand the idle speed nearly the same amount....Do I need to go in again?  :'(   They are clean.

At any rate...My bike is running...well to very well...It depends on if the low idle thing is a problem with other K8's

Things I have done:

Dyna S ignition, 3 Ohm coils and wires
K$N OEM replacement in the stock air box
4 into 1 running on header only

Don

Offline lrutt

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Re: Yeah, Yeah I know...Buffo and his God D@mn carbs!!!
« Reply #1 on: August 25, 2005, 05:09:52 PM »
How do you know all the passages in the carbs are completely clean. That often is as much of a culprit as the jets.
06 Harley Sporster 1200C, 06 Triumph Scrambler, 01 Ducati Chromo 900, 01 Honda XR650L, 94 Harley Heritage, 88 Honda Hawk GT, 84 Yamaha Virago 1000, 78 Honda 750K w/sidecar, 77 Moto Guzzi Lemans 850, 76 Honda CB750K, 73 Norton 850, 73 Honda Z50, 70 & 65 Honda Trail 90, 70 & 71 Triumph 650s, 65 Honda 305 Dream, 81 Honda 70 Passport, 70 Suzuki T250II, 71 Yamaha 360 RT1B, 77 BMW R75/7, 75 Honda CB550K, 70 Honda CT70

Buffo

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Re: Yeah, Yeah I know...Buffo and his God D@mn carbs!!!
« Reply #2 on: August 25, 2005, 05:27:20 PM »
One of my favorite carb tools is the little red straw you get with a can of carb cleaner. I take the straw and with my dremel, I file down the tip to a point. This way I can make a tight seal in any of the little jet holes. and see first hand how and where they are or are not flowing.

I  dipped my carbs in berrymans chem dip 3 times.

all new seals, mains needles, seats.......

cleaned all the passages with wire...(carefully) then clearing with can carb cleaner and compressed air many many times

Many hours of checking and double checking jets ansd passages...air and fuel.

pulled all four slow jets and cleaned them and the passages that lead to them (mine are pressed in)

new fuel filter

clean tank

fresh gas

Offline TwoTired

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Re: Yeah, Yeah I know...Buffo and his God D@mn carbs!!!
« Reply #3 on: August 25, 2005, 06:11:42 PM »
How do your plugs look?

None of us can feel how your bike pulls at low speed over the internet.  We rely on data you provide about your bike.  Each engine has a horsepower and torque curve.  The shape of this curve determines where you feel power from the bike in terms of acceleration.  Take a look at the curves here:
http://www.totalmotorcycle.com/school-SectionSixB.htm

These are curves there for A DOHC CB750. But, the SOHC 4 should be similar.

Short of a dyno that measures horsepower/torque at any given RPM, the home mechanic is limited to time/distance and total weight moved measurements during the event. With this data you can make charts for your bike and determine specificaly if something need adjusting.   Reading the spark plugs can also help dial in for the best carburation adjustments.

Your carburetors have an idle mixture screw that has a very limited range of effectiveness and also only effects  very small and low increments of throttle position.  You've seen the idle screw end taper and the orifice it fits into. It's pretty small.  And, the slow jet that feeds it is even smaller.  The I.M.S. ceases to have much restrictive control when it is turn out quite far. Opening up the slow jets should have wider throttle range effect in the band you seem to be concerned about.

Something else to consider is how you think about your carbs and engine performance.  The RPM you are turning effects the total airflow demand on the carb.  The slide position allots what is to be provided.  A CV carb controls the slide opening based on engine demand.  Your slides are mechanically linked to your throttle grip and that position is important to note for whatever speed you wish out of the engine.
Put differently, while the fuel metering devices in the carb do respond to pressure demands of the engine (RPM), the slide exerts direct control over the Main and needle jet fuel flow, but, NOT the slow jet or idle mixture screw.

I mostly ride a CB550, also an inline four.  It does not make the horsepower and torque of a CB750.  But, the shape of its horspower and torque curve should be similar to the 750 of the same vintage.
I consider its low speed pickup to be good.  But, if I want to really scoot I do so in the lower gears as high RPM is where it makes it's best horsepower.  For example, if I'm cruising at 50MPH and want to quickly pass a car, I'll drop two maybe even three gears if I'm riding two up.  I'll want, at least, 4000 RPM to achieve best acceleration.  But then, my red line is 9300.  And, I'm not shy about using anything and everything below that limit and sometimes beyond.  With the clutch disengaged, it will wind to red line from idle in less than a second or, "right now" for all practical driving purposes.  If I want a high power band, I select a gear the puts the engine in that band.

If you want a bike that responds to throttle without regard for transmission gear selection, you'll probably be happier with a V twin like the Harley configuration.  It's Horsepower and torque curves are pretty flat from low RPM and throttle positions.  Gear selection is less critical for these bikes.
Cheers,
Lloyd... (SOHC4 #11 Original Mail List)
72 500, 74 550, 75 550K, 75 550F, 76 550F, 77 550F X2, 78 550K, 77 750F X2, 78 750F, 79CX500, 85 700SC, GL1100

Those that learn from history are doomed to repeat it by those that don't learn from history.

Buffo

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Re: Yeah, Yeah I know...Buffo and his God D@mn carbs!!!
« Reply #4 on: August 25, 2005, 06:37:36 PM »
Well that about answers my question...ride it like you stole it.

I did figure it would be a little smoother at lower rpm but...like I said this is my first SOHC4.

I am sure it would be smoother off the line with the original muffler setup...or any muffler for that...but I will say this:

My bike runs great. I am sure bigger slow jets would improve its low end but I have ridden crotch rockets my whole life and I am at home at 6000+ Rpm..

I would like to ride a more stock one and feel the difference between it and mine. Just to see where I am now.

Thanks

Don

Buffo

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Re: Yeah, Yeah I know...Buffo and his God D@mn carbs!!!
« Reply #5 on: August 25, 2005, 06:42:25 PM »
just pulled my plugs...They look spot on to me. I would like Kghost to take a look when he comes down...he has a bit more knowledge that I about these bikes. But They look fine to me.

Don

Offline Kevin D

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Re: Yeah, Yeah I know...Buffo and his God D@mn carbs!!!
« Reply #6 on: August 25, 2005, 07:21:25 PM »
 Buffo - I would say that this bike has multiple personalities depending on where the tach needle is -

        0-4000rpm - sedate cruiser

        4000-6000rpm - spirited sport rider

        6000-8000rpm - rocket ship

 Mine is just about box stock and it's all that I know - I haven't ever ridden any CBR's, GSX-R's , Gold Wings or anything else for a long time. It's idling a lot better @ 1100 rpm since an ignition tune and new spark plug caps, smooth off idle but needs a few revs to get rolling. Carbs haven't been synched since ????. Starts good, runs great.
71 CB750 K1
104,000 miles
Original Owner
———past———
70 SL100/125/150
70 Candy BlueGreen CB 750 K0
————————————————-
Former Honda parts kid/counter kid/do all
—————————————————————-
Whether you think you can or think you can’t, you’re right
Genius is 99% perspiration, 1% inspiration

Finbar20

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Re: Yeah, Yeah I know...Buffo and his God D@mn carbs!!!
« Reply #7 on: August 25, 2005, 07:40:19 PM »
Don, after reading your post I've got to tell you about my latest experience with a 550F I just picked up a month ago. The bike came with 4into1 open header and no carb filtration of any kind. It sounded great and ran better!  
No hesitation right up to  redline.  My son sent me a stock airbox , plenum, filter & hardware that I installed a week ago. Immediatly I noticed a bit of hesitation rolling off a dead stop and low speed cruising it feels as though it misses just a little.
Although when you pour on the coals it still runs like it did before the airbox.  Obviously what I did to the intake side affected the bikes' running. My next step is to dig out an old baffle I've got laying around and experiment with the length of it. I do have an original exhaust for it but I like the looks and sound of the header. Although I don't think the neighbors feel the same way. The boy runs 4into1 with a baffle cut in half and velocity stacks and it screams. The local sheriff finally caught up with him and cited him for noise. Hence the cut down baffle. After changing out the rear shocks I've fallen in love with the way this "old" bike rides and handles. I hope I've shed some light on the subject. Barry

Buffo

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Re: Yeah, Yeah I know...Buffo and his God D@mn carbs!!!
« Reply #8 on: August 25, 2005, 07:43:44 PM »
mine idles like a top. and i think I am right on with the pilot screws. I just thought it would lift off a little easier. Not a big deal.


I didnt get it to coast around on anyway.

This..well, mine at least, would be a horrible first bike.

Buffo

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Re: Yeah, Yeah I know...Buffo and his God D@mn carbs!!!
« Reply #9 on: August 25, 2005, 07:47:32 PM »
Maybe I will take the bottome of my airbox off tomarrow. I live on an island made of sand so I NEED  a good filter but maybe I could run pods and clean the hell out of them every week...if it makes a difference that is.

Don

Finbar20

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Re: Yeah, Yeah I know...Buffo and his God D@mn carbs!!!
« Reply #10 on: August 25, 2005, 07:58:08 PM »
Yea, I agree with having a decent filter. I keep tellin the kid he'll send his to an early grave with the stacks. But he always tells me the air is so much cleaner in
Arizona!

Offline TwoTired

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Re: Yeah, Yeah I know...Buffo and his God D@mn carbs!!!
« Reply #11 on: August 25, 2005, 11:39:58 PM »
Maybe I will take the bottome of my airbox off tomarrow. I live on an island made of sand so I NEED  a good filter but maybe I could run pods and clean the hell out of them every week...if it makes a difference that is.

Worth A try, I suppose.  But, note that reducing intake restriction brings the carb throat closer to atmospheric pressure and will draw less fuel through the jet orifices.  If you believe you need to richen up the low speed to improve low end performance, taking off the airbox and/or using pods seems unlikely to give you the improved performance you seek.

Let us know how your experiment turns out.
Cheers,
Lloyd... (SOHC4 #11 Original Mail List)
72 500, 74 550, 75 550K, 75 550F, 76 550F, 77 550F X2, 78 550K, 77 750F X2, 78 750F, 79CX500, 85 700SC, GL1100

Those that learn from history are doomed to repeat it by those that don't learn from history.

Offline bryanj

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Re: Yeah, Yeah I know...Buffo and his God D@mn carbs!!!
« Reply #12 on: August 26, 2005, 04:06:17 AM »
From one of your answers i get the feeling you are running LOUD open pipes and lack of back pressure does tend to loose you the low end power.
Semi Geriatric ex-Honda mechanic and MOT tester (UK version of annual inspection). Garage full of "projects" mostly 500/4 from pre 73 (no road tax in UK).

Remember "Its always in the last place you look" COURSE IT IS YOU STOP LOOKIN THEN!

Offline dusterdude

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Re: Yeah, Yeah I know...Buffo and his God D@mn carbs!!!
« Reply #13 on: August 26, 2005, 05:33:00 AM »
just to add my two cents.im running open 2 into 1 pipes and 4 k&n pods.i dont have the issues don is having.i do agree with some that it appears to be a jet issue of some type.
mark
1972 k1 750
1949 fl panhead
1 1/2 gl1100 goldwings
1998 cbr600 f3