Author Topic: CB750 Rocker Arm Shafts - Early vs Late  (Read 4566 times)

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Offline mystic_1

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CB750 Rocker Arm Shafts - Early vs Late
« on: June 04, 2008, 10:01:30 PM »
So, my CB750 engine is a late K0, mfg date 2/70.  Thus, it has the early cam support design with only one bolt holding the rocker arm shaft.  Note the undrilled location where bolts are added in the later design.



Here's the later design (this is a K3) - note the additional bolts (not installed in this pic) to lock the rocker shaft in place.



My understanding is that this was done to reduce valve train noise.

Now, it's my understanding that the earlier design has a certain friction advantage over the later design in that the shaft is theoretically free to spin under the rocker arms, however looking closely at my rocker shafts they have a groove cut across them, rather than all the way around as in the later shaft:


Upper:  Early Shaft
Lower:  Later Shaft

So, the earlier shaft is, in fact, locked in place and will not rotate, which is supported by the wear pattern on the shaft - one can see where there's some work polishing on the shaft from the rocker arm (note, left side of shaft has been polished already).

The later shaft, in addition to being able to rotate freely so long as the additional bolts are not used, also have those extra oiling grooves, which catch and distribute the meager oil that gets delivered to this are via splash oiling.  Correct me if I'm wrong, but all the oil that the rocker arms get come from oil landing in the machined holes on the shoulders of the rocker arms.  The later shaft's oil grooves align with these so a small resevoir of oil would form here making for better lubrication of the shafts.

So, I'm currently thinking that the way for me to go is to polish up the newer shafts and use them with my older cam holders.  No bolts to hold it in place and a full groove to allow the shaft to rotate, plus better oiling to boot.

Sound right?

mystic_1
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Offline 754

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Re: CB750 Rocker Arm Shafts - Early vs Late
« Reply #1 on: June 04, 2008, 10:09:21 PM »
Why not add the oil groove to the early shaft.

If you use the later shaft with just the center bolt and the rocker shaft breaks due to the middle being weaker, the shaft may slide over to far and cause damage..
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Offline bryanj

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Re: CB750 Rocker Arm Shafts - Early vs Late
« Reply #2 on: June 05, 2008, 05:32:20 AM »
You dont want the shaft to rotate or it will wear the alloy housing
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Offline mystic_1

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Re: CB750 Rocker Arm Shafts - Early vs Late
« Reply #3 on: June 05, 2008, 05:34:45 AM »
Why not add the oil groove to the early shaft.

No lathe thus no good way to accurately machine grooves in the old shafts.  Best I could do here in my shop is to chuck the shafts into a drill press and go to town with a Dremel, and that would be pretty dodgy I think.


If you use the later shaft with just the center bolt and the rocker shaft breaks due to the middle being weaker, the shaft may slide over to far and cause damage..

This is a good point, but I don't think there's much lateral force being applied at the center of the shafts, they're supported pretty well on both sides of the rocker arms, so I'm not TOO worried about breakage.

My basis for looking at this swap, btw, is this post from Hondaman in the FAQ:

CB750: Top End tricks

Unfortunately the pic in his post showing the early rocker shaft has tape covering the middle, so I cannot see if his early shafts have the groove going all the way around like the later ones, or just a lateral slot like my early shafts do.

mystic_1
"A ship in harbor is safe, but that is not what ships are built for."
- John Augustus Shedd

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Offline mystic_1

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Re: CB750 Rocker Arm Shafts - Early vs Late
« Reply #4 on: June 05, 2008, 05:36:57 AM »
You dont want the shaft to rotate or it will wear the alloy housing

Another excellent point.  I was thinking about this last night when I was taking the pics.  My cam holders are currently in good shape so I'd hate to wear them out, especially as K0 parts like this are getting harder and harder to source all the time.

mystic_1
"A ship in harbor is safe, but that is not what ships are built for."
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Offline MRieck

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Re: CB750 Rocker Arm Shafts - Early vs Late
« Reply #5 on: June 05, 2008, 07:09:52 AM »
You dont want the shaft to rotate or it will wear the alloy housing
. I'd say that's why Honda secured the late model 550 shafts.
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Offline mystic_1

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Re: CB750 Rocker Arm Shafts - Early vs Late
« Reply #6 on: June 05, 2008, 08:42:16 AM »
So then would y'all consider it a better option to swap in the K3 cam towers and run it with the bolts installed?


mystic_1
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Offline merc2dogs

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Re: CB750 Rocker Arm Shafts - Early vs Late
« Reply #7 on: June 05, 2008, 11:52:24 AM »


No lathe thus no good way to accurately machine grooves in the old shafts.  Best I could do here in my shop is to chuck the shafts into a drill press and go to town with a Dremel, and that would be pretty dodgy I think.

mystic_1

 If you have a drill press and a vise for it, mount the dremel on the moveable jaw and use the vise as a compound to feed the dremel in controlled amounts.

ken.

Offline 754

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Re: CB750 Rocker Arm Shafts - Early vs Late
« Reply #8 on: June 05, 2008, 11:38:17 PM »
Drill press would definitely work with a dremel or a thin cut off disc on an angle grinder..

Just put a felt pen mark where you want the groove and have at er..
Maker of the WELDLESS 750 Frame Kit
dodogas99@gmail.com
Kelowna B.C.       Canada

My next bike will be a ..ANFOB.....

It's All part of the ADVENTURE...

73 836cc.. Green, had it for 3 decades!!
Lost quite a few CB 750's along the way