Topic: Head gasket leak (pics) OR: The Debacle.

[gregimotis]

I little photo blogging on head gasket replacing (and replacing, and replacing)

Here's the history (with mistakes):

1: I decided to do away with my minor head leak.  I bought a gasket set from Cycle-X (Emgo) but did not buy the HD studs as recommended.

2:  Tear down number one, replaced base gasket, head gasket, valve cover gasket, pucks and o-rings.
     A: The valve cover gasket did not fit properly.  I cut it in two places to make it narrower and used HondaBond to seal it

3:  Tear down number two The bike began leaking badly after about 50 miles.  I assumed without checking that the leak was the valve cover gasket.  I was wrong - replaced the valve gasket and nothing else.

4:  This last time, I used athletes foot powder to locate the leak (see picture).  This was a miracle trick.  The leak was very obviously in the head gasket.  So now we are at...

5:  Tear down number three  I have gaskets from Honda, Heavy duty studs from APE race parts.

Pics in the next post...

[gregimotis]

First pic is the athletes foot powder residue.  I sprayed a whole can of the stuff and ran the bike.  When oil started to appear, it was dead obvious right on the head gasket.

[gregimotis]

Now on to the tear down:

[gregimotis]

In this next photo you can see the black rubber pucks which are often a source of leaks.  Normally they are hidden beneath the cam races.  I dropped one of these buggers into the cam chamber (pic two) and retrived it with a pair of hemostats I use for fly fishing.

[mazingerzeca]

maybe the valve cover gasket was upside down and because of that it didn't fit and you had to cut it?

[gregimotis]

After we remove the pucks, we can access the screws underneath, the two bolts on the fore and rear of the head, and the sixteen nuts which actually secure the head to the crankcase.

The next photo show the head and cylinders laid out with thier mating surfaces exposed.  Then I've pulled the o-rings and guides from the cylinders and laid them out in their relative positions.

[gregimotis]

And finally:  The culprit.

Two o-rings support the high presure oil senders (to the top) and eight chambers with o-ring like tubes on metal guides keep low pressure oil returns.

My leak (as reported by the athelets foot powder test) occured all along the gasket to the rear and outside of cylinders One and somewhat along two.

[gregimotis]

maybe the valve cover gasket was upside down and because of that it didn't fit and you had to cut it?

It's a good guess, but not the case.  The gasket was too broad front to back by about 1/4 inch.  I could get it lined up with the rear or the front, but not both.  Eventually I cut a bit of material off either side.

For future readers, the engine is not exactly symmetrical left to right.  It's close enough that one can't see it, but lay a gasket wrong side down on the surface and it becomes obvious.

[gregimotis]

If I put this engine back together and it still leaks, I don't know what I'm going to do.


  Medic09 sort of suggested before I started this project that I might be better off leaving well enough alone and I now wish I had.

[Kevin D]

Are you sure its not the outside puck? It looks like you used the Hondabond on them.

the engine is not exactly symmetrical left to right

I'm thinking the primary chains are centered on the crank and the camchain is offset a little.

[gregimotis]

Are you sure its not the outside puck? It looks like you used the Hondabond on them.

It might be the puck also, but the head is defiantly draining oil.  I did use HondaBond on them - a smear around the top and a bit at the bottom of their recess'.  I'm not using HonaBond on the gaskets themselves - I'm using gaskacinch there.

I know folks say I don't need anything, but I'm not feeling like taking a lot of chances.

[medic09]

Greg forgot to mention that in the midst of all this, they also managed to have a new baby boy!

 

[Jerry Rxman Griffin aka MuthaF'er]

Take the cylinders and the head to a machine shop and have them check for "flatness" of both. A good decking never hurts if needed, only helps. Both with oil leaks and a slight increase in compression. Don't get to this point on #3 and not do it. Also, when you put it back together do not forget to torque it down in the proper sequence.

[Kevin D]

Greg forgot to mention that in the midst of all this, they also managed to have a new baby boy!

Well, Congratulations are due, Greg!!!


As far as the CB goes, I recommend that you assemble it as quickly as possible, because your free time will be rapidly diminishing. Dont ask me how I know.

[gregimotis]

Greg forgot to mention that in the midst of all this, they also managed to have a new baby boy!

Well, Congratulations are due, Greg!!!


As far as the CB goes, I recommend that you assemble it as quickly as possible, because your free time will be rapidly diminishing. Dont ask me how I know.

Thanks
Yes, I have a 19 day old boy.  My moto fixing time is ten minutes here, ten minutes there.

[Gordon]

Yes, I have a 19 day old boy.  My moto fixing time is ten minutes here, ten minutes there.

Congratulations!

I'm right there with you.  My wife and I have a 5 month old boy, and when he's napping I'm in the garage or working in the yard with the baby monitor hooked to my belt.

[hymodyne]

Mazeltov on the new baby... get that boy to wrenchin!

hym

[Terry in Australia]

I'm with Jerry on getting your head and deck "skimmed" mate, do that and you won't need any gasket sealers, and it won't leak.

When you torque the head down, (using the correct torquing sequence) start at 5 ft lbs, then ten, then 15, then 20, then 25. (on the lightly oiled APE studs only)

I leave the engine overnight at that point and next day I loosen them all off (in the reverse sequence) and re-torque it again, once again, in 5 ft-lbs increments. I'm always surprised at how much more it pulls the head down when I re-torque it the next day. Cheers, Terry.

[72 yellow]

Congrads on the newest member of the SOHC family.  I also purchased a gasket set from Ken at CycleX.  It was a emgo also.  The valve cover gasket also seemed oversized.  I picked up a stock Honda gasket and there was a difference in size.  The Honda part fit perfectly.  I called Ken and talked to him about it and he refunded the cost of the Honda gasket.  Nice guy to do business with.   

[gregimotis]

  I called Ken and talked to him about it and he refunded the cost of the Honda gasket.  Nice guy to do business with.   

Agreed.  I've bought other stuff from CycleX which was great.   They seem like good folks.

[kghost]

Good advice from Terry...

I'd second that.

[gregimotis]

Good advice from Terry...
I'd second that.

I intend to take it.

[gregimotis]

So now it's eleven days later:

My boy is one month old tomorrow

My head and cylinders came back from the machinist (120$) and this evening I did the initial torque.  Tomorrow I will loosen (in sequence) and re-torque.  No gasket sealer of any kind on the advice of:  Several members here, two mechanics, my manual, and Cycle-X.

While at the shop, the parts got a bath in the hot tank and are cleaner than I've ever seen them.  Also, a stripped thread got heli-coiled.

Pictures of the assembly tomorrow.  Thanks for the advice so far - I am feeling very nervous about the whole thing.

 Do you know how it feels when you've come too late into a corner and realize that you're too hot and you're afraid of the brake, but you've gotta hit it and the safety rail is coming up and you MUST lean so you do, but GOD SHE ISN'T GOING TO HOLD!!! F**K!...    Well, that's the fear I feel right now only in slow motion. 

[Terry in Australia]

Take it slow and easy mate, you've done all the right things so there's no reason why it should leak with all that prep, it'll be fine!

[jtb]

Greg,
At Mike Reick's suggestion, I used Hylomar on the pucks.  No leaks after 2+ years.