Author Topic: Wiring Fried Question  (Read 1180 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Hawkster318

  • I can't even spell
  • Enthusiast
  • **
  • Posts: 135
    • Zeughaus Hawkster
Wiring Fried Question
« on: June 11, 2008, 07:17:00 AM »
OK, so I am tearing into my 76 550 and finally had a chance to take a good look at the wiring.

I knew the ground (running from above the coils to the fuse center) showed some melting. The extent is pretty much complete.

From the Ground contact back to a solder joint, then on to another solder joint where it seems to split into two different runs to different pieces.

(Yeah, I know, I'm getting pretty technical there), My apologies about not having all the correct terms down yet.

It looks now that the wire sections can just be replaced. They burn doesn't go through to any other wires and nothing is fused together.

So, I have down some reading of previous posts and I am thinking this was caused by someone trying to jump the bike from a car.

Are there other possibles causes?

Am I just looking at the wire or should I be digging into other components deeper?

Thank you in advance for your input.

I will try to get pictures tonight and update the post then.


Did we give up when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor? NO! ~ Bluto = Animal House

Offline Gordon

  • Global Moderator
  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *****
  • Posts: 12,114
  • 750K1, 550K2
Re: Wiring Fried Question
« Reply #1 on: June 11, 2008, 08:16:44 AM »
I'll have to wait for pictures to get a better idea of which wire you're talking about, but jumping your battery from a car won't hurt anything unless it's hooked up backwards.

Offline bryanj

  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 14,135
  • CB500 Number 1000036
Re: Wiring Fried Question
« Reply #2 on: June 11, 2008, 09:07:51 AM »
That wire melts when the ground connection at the engine is high resistance (dirty or loose)
Semi Geriatric ex-Honda mechanic and MOT tester (UK version of annual inspection). Garage full of "projects" mostly 500/4 from pre 73 (no road tax in UK).

Remember "Its always in the last place you look" COURSE IT IS YOU STOP LOOKIN THEN!

Offline stresssolutions

  • 4 years on a motorcycle, Time Flies!
  • Enthusiast
  • **
  • Posts: 221
  • 03 RoadStar, I miss my Honda
    • bloggy thoughts
Re: Wiring Fried Question
« Reply #3 on: June 11, 2008, 09:13:56 AM »
I'd say that if it all still works, but not well...then it's wires and not components.  looking forward to seeing pics
Enjoying life, one day at a time.

Offline Hawkster318

  • I can't even spell
  • Enthusiast
  • **
  • Posts: 135
    • Zeughaus Hawkster
Re: Wiring Fried Question
« Reply #4 on: June 11, 2008, 12:04:29 PM »
This is a project that had sat in the weeds for 12 years or so. Not running yet, although I have gotten the tail light to turn on.  :)

I tried taking pics at lunch, but that was when the camera batteries decided to die. I have them charging this afternoon.

Here goes. I'm sorry about the blurries. It is a borrowed camera and sort of odd.



The melted wire runs from the frame



To a soldered splice



To a Connector



To the Rectifier (?? Not sure if I have it identified right) A finned aluminum piece.



So, it seems to be along this path only.


« Last Edit: June 11, 2008, 03:13:04 PM by Hawkster318 »
Did we give up when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor? NO! ~ Bluto = Animal House

Offline Butchbaby

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 35
  • 1977 CB550F
Re: Wiring Fried Question
« Reply #5 on: June 11, 2008, 02:56:29 PM »
My 77 550 had wiring melted. The PO had hooked up the battery backwards. It melted the wires to the rectifier. I bought a new one from Oregon Motorcycles. Then I unwraped the subharnes and replaced melted wires there. I also unwrapped the wiring harness to the coil and replaced melted wires there. Thanks to Twotired I got everything working after replacing all the melted wires. They were mostly ground wires.

Offline Gordon

  • Global Moderator
  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *****
  • Posts: 12,114
  • 750K1, 550K2
Re: Wiring Fried Question
« Reply #6 on: June 11, 2008, 03:49:32 PM »
My 77 550 had wiring melted. The PO had hooked up the battery backwards. It melted the wires to the rectifier. I bought a new one from Oregon Motorcycles. Then I unwraped the subharnes and replaced melted wires there. I also unwrapped the wiring harness to the coil and replaced melted wires there. Thanks to Twotired I got everything working after replacing all the melted wires. They were mostly ground wires.

+1

That's a big sign that your rectifier has been fried.  It can happen from reversing the polarity at the battery terminals (don't ask me how I know ;)), or probably from hooking up jumper cables backwards.  It only takes a split second to kill the rectifier. 

On the plus side, my 550 has a nice, new rectifier from Oregon Motorcycle Parts! ;D

Offline Hawkster318

  • I can't even spell
  • Enthusiast
  • **
  • Posts: 135
    • Zeughaus Hawkster
Re: Wiring Fried Question
« Reply #7 on: June 11, 2008, 06:27:29 PM »
Ok, so if I am hearing things right, I should get ahold of Oregon Motorcycle Parts and order some ground cleaner, I mean a rectifier.
Did we give up when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor? NO! ~ Bluto = Animal House

Offline 333

  • Time for change
  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 7,558
  • Mail List Member #162 - Call me Stan
Re: Wiring Fried Question
« Reply #8 on: June 11, 2008, 08:19:26 PM »
First, I'd like to clarify something.  Yes, you can jump start from a car, but DO NOT have the car running.  This will fry things on your bike.  With the car off, the bike will "draw" exactly what it needs, no more,no less.  If the car is on, the 100+amp alternator will push enough current into the bike to fry many things- rectifier, wiring, even the alternator windings.

So, we are talking about a previous owner, so who knows what happened.  But another possibility is running the bike with a bad battery.  Say you have enough juice to kick or bump start the bike.  Your alternator is desperately trying to charge the battery.  It will cause resistance just like the other causes that have been suggested.  And considering the age of these bikes we love, it could be multiple reasons.  Until we have time machines, we'll never know exactly what the cause(s) may be.  Just another reason to go through the entire bike.
Go metric, every inch of the way!

CB350F0  "Scrouching Tiger"
CT70K0    "Sneezing Poodle"

www.alexandriaseaport.org

Offline TwoTired

  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 21,805
Re: Wiring Fried Question
« Reply #9 on: June 11, 2008, 10:22:26 PM »
First, I'd like to clarify something.  Yes, you can jump start from a car, but DO NOT have the car running.  This will fry things on your bike.  With the car off, the bike will "draw" exactly what it needs, no more,no less.  If the car is on, the 100+amp alternator will push enough current into the bike to fry many things- rectifier, wiring, even the alternator windings.

Are you drunk?   ???  You haven't clarified anything, only added heresay and contrived a fiction.
These statements have no basis in reality, electrical theory, or even practical reasoning. 

The car alternator can make power available, but it can't push anything into the bike it does not demand.  Current flow is determined by the load requirement, not source potential or capability.  You can't make something draw 100 amps that normally draws 10 unless you significantly raise the offered voltage potential.  Learn basic ohm's law; Current equals voltage divided by resistance.

If your contrivance were true, the battery is capable of delivering at least 600 amps (see CCA rating).  In fact, they can deliver over 1000 amps for short periods of time, which is more than 10 times the capability of a car alternator.
If your fiction became reality what would stop the alternator from delivering 100 amps to the cars own headlights and melt them, or any of the other electrical devices in the car's electrical system?

A car's alternator system provides the very same peak voltage as the MC charging system produces, 14.5V max.  The bikes load resistance does not change when you connect jumper cables from a car regardless of whether the car is "ON" or not.  If you electric start the MC, then the starter motor will draw 100-150 amps from the car's electrical system, either the battery or the alternator can make this power available.  Neither will "push" power into a circuit that is not demanding it.

Jeesh. Where does such odd mysticism originate, and why does it fester so?


Lloyd... (SOHC4 #11 Original Mail List)
72 500, 74 550, 75 550K, 75 550F, 76 550F, 77 550F X2, 78 550K, 77 750F X2, 78 750F, 79CX500, 85 700SC, GL1100

Those that learn from history are doomed to repeat it by those that don't learn from history.

Offline Gordon

  • Global Moderator
  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *****
  • Posts: 12,114
  • 750K1, 550K2
Re: Wiring Fried Question
« Reply #10 on: June 12, 2008, 06:51:57 AM »
I saw that one coming... ;D