Topic: Tire age question

[Canada]

I just had a Bridgestone Spitfire 11R shipped to me from a supplier that is marked as manufactured in 2002. Is it safe to run this tire based on the 6 year rule or should I send it back and demand a newer one?

[eldar]

If you bought a new tire, you did not get one. Send it back and demand a new tire. I would not settle for anything less than 2006 and maybe not even that depending on how much I paid.

[BobbyR]

There have been news reports about this: http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/Story?id=4822250&page=1

[smasheromalley]

Interesting article. So the ~13+ year old cheng shin tires that are on my bike should be replaced even tho they look almost like new with no visible rot?

[Gordon]

Interesting article. So the ~13+ year old cheng shin tires that are on my bike should be replaced even tho they look almost like new with no visible rot?

If it were my bike I'd replace them.  After 13 years the rubber is significantly harder and has much less grip than when they were relatively new. 

[joecool14u2]

i wish the rubber on my tires where harder, man that rear tire is like gas on fire

[BobbyR]

Interesting article. So the ~13+ year old cheng shin tires that are on my bike should be replaced even tho they look almost like new with no visible rot?

Your 13 year old tires are like that guy who looks fit and trim and drops dead from a heart attack. 

[Tower]

The industry and the retailers are being very cautious to talk a line between safety and tyre sales.  On the one hand saying tyres are "aged" and need to be replaced after 10 years, on the other, by suggesting a shorter life span, tyres sales should improve.  Retailers have a different problem, and so they are saying that there is no proof and no law that requires limiting the sale of "aged" tyres. Car makers add a safety margin (to cover their butts, perhaps, since its no skin to them to do so) thus they reduce the suggested life span to 6 years.

My own experience suggests there is a lot of leeway here.  My 26 year old Michelin radial tyres look solid and still work well enough to keep using - and that is arguably the worst of all worlds - way aged hardened, radial ply construction, and older rubber compound.

Compared to brand new BT45s there is a night and day road gripping performance difference.  But, is that a safety issue? Hard to say (no pun intended).  Consider a suggestion that my "old" Michelin's are much better after 26 years, then brand tyres were in the 1940s-50s.

I would agree with the manufacturers when they say age is not the key determinant of tyre performance, but rather, exposure to UV light and resulting cracking, tread wear, pressure, and damage are much more serious safety factors.

[rhinoracer]

Motorcycle tire rubber is different than auto tire rubber. Try this:

Park your bike in the sun and new tire sidewalls will crack in 1-2 years.

'Protect' the sidewalls with ArmorAll and they will crack in 1 year.

Which means bike tires have a much shorter lifespan than auto tires.

[Gordon]

Compared to brand new BT45s there is a night and day road gripping performance difference.  But, is that a safety issue? Hard to say.

I find it very easy to say that yes, it is definitely a safety issue.   

[eldar]

It is certainly a safety issue. Just cause you do not ride hard does not mean you will not call upon your bike to stop hard to avoid something.

[BobbyR]

+1 on safety. Even if your old tires are structurally sound but are hard as hockey pucks and have 1/3 less grip, you are exposing yourself to at least 1/3 more danger. These are monotrack vehicles, we do not have 3 other wheels helping out. At some point that 1/3 may mean you either steer around something and keep going or hit it. Since there is nothing between me and the pavement but air, it's a no brainer.  

[goon 1492]

Motorcycle tire rubber is different than auto tire rubber. Try this:

Park your bike in the sun and new tire sidewalls will crack in 1-2 years.

'Protect' the sidewalls with ArmorAll and they will crack in 1 year.

Which means bike tires have a much shorter lifespan than auto tires.

no brother thats good ol armour all for you that crap will do it to the dash of your car too, use it once and you have to keep using it or the tire/dash or whatever will start showing signs of drying out the first time you miss an application.  Mothers is a much better brand. Its the tire compound that accounts for it all, if you want a longer lifespan tire buy the better brand.  My brother in law is a bridgstone/firestone salesman and he will even tell you all tire compounds are crap, its the ammount of sicila, grade of rubber and several other factors that consider the grade of tire and how long it will last. You buy a 80,000 mile tire it will get too hard to safely run on before the tire even runs out of life. you buy a 15,000 mile tire it will give you a very good 15,000 mile life span because it has more sicila hence making it a more soft sticky tire that has more time to dry out, all tires will dry out over time, wrap them in plastic over winter or when they need long term storage and you'll get a longer life out of them.

[eldar]

So now, this whole armor-all thing. Who has actually had it happen to them and how long did it take?

I have not used it on tires but on dashes I have and there was never a problem. And no, I do not apply regularly unless regularly is once every couple of years. Never had a dash crack except from age. 80s cars were horrible about that.

[markjenn]

+1 on safety. Even if your old tires are structurally sound but are hard as hockey pucks and have 1/3 less grip, you are exposing yourself to at least 1/3 more danger. These are monotrack vehicles, we do not have 3 other wheels helping out. At some point that 1/3 may mean you either steer around something and keep going or hit it. Since there is nothing between me and the pavement but air, it's a no brainer.  

The problem with these rationales is that you have to draw a line in the sand somewhere and say enough is enough.  If a 5-year-old tire has 33%  less grip (I doubt anybody has any hard data to back this up BTW), then probably a 2.5-year-old tire has 20% less grip and a 1-year-old tire has 10% less grip.  Wouldn't that 10% less grip possibly make the difference in an emergency situation?  Shouldn't we therefore replace tires on a yearly basis?  Maybe even six-months?  Where do you draw the line?

There are a multitude of hazards in motorcycling and if always err on the side of safety, you'd never ride at night, never ride when it is wet, never ride with tires more than six-months old, never ride without full leathers/back-protector, never ride unless the helmet was less than a year old, etc. etc. etc.  Better yet, you'd never ride at all - the accident statistics of motorcycles are appalling compared to cars.

As someone else said, there are a lot of factors affecting the aging of tires. Calendar time is certainly one, but a one-year old tire exposed to a lot of ozone, industrial pollution, and sunlight might easily be in worse shape than ten-year-old tire stored under ideal conditions.

I think the customary five-year rule is conservative, assuming average conditions.  If the tire looks good, I'd probably ride beyond five-years on a classic I rode as a Sunday afternoon cruiser.  OTOH, I just replaced two-year-old, half-worn tires on my sportbike because I'm doing a track day with this bike.  On the track at maximum lean angles, I want new tires under me.

IOW, some judgment and common sense needs to be applied, rather than just blinding saying that you always need to err on the safe side.

- Mark

[BobbyR]

The 1/3 was a for instance statement. Actually the outside is no real indicator. What about inside. If you bought the bike used did the PO run underinflated, maybe over city streets in and out of potholes. What about the tubes. Motorcycles are dangerous, so as they told me in the MSF Course, you manage the risk. I can't stop someone from pulling out of a parking space in front of me, I can change my tires every 7 or 8 years.
The thread was originally about someone buying an aged tire as new, and was that proper way to do business.

[rhinoracer]

So now, this whole armor-all thing. Who has actually had it happen to them and how long did it take?

I've done it on almost new Dunlops, bought new tires for riding season, used to take sunday rides from March thru Sept, washed the bike for storage, sprayed the seat and tires with armor-all and next riding season they were cracked.

After that I never sprayed them again, Dunlops and Bridgestones would last 1-2 years before tiny cracks started to appear on the sidewalls.

[goon 1492]

So now, this whole armor-all thing. Who has actually had it happen to them and how long did it take?

I have not used it on tires but on dashes I have and there was never a problem. And no, I do not apply regularly unless regularly is once every couple of years. Never had a dash crack except from age. 80s cars were horrible about that.

I was just noting that armour all is not the best way to go, i grew up using it and i'm sure alot of other people did too. I never realized it until it was explained to me buy my brother in law, just skip an application or two of it on your dash/tires whatever and notice how you start to see a faded or not in as good of condition as the original dash was before any applications, ok now your thinkin well what ever how can you tell if it is any worse than before even using it, i have owned many cars and new cars when i learned this i stopped using it on the current new car i owned  I noticed a difference in the apperance of the dash after the next time i cleaned and did not apply armour all, ok the next new car i bought i didn't use it at all and never noticed any fading and that was even after having the car for three years, and yes if you use it on your tires you will have to keep using it because it breaks down the seal on the outer surface in order to soak in and have a lasting apperance, but when its gone you see flat dry rubber, do your own experiment and tell the class your results.

[eldar]

Well like I said, I have used it on a very irregular basis and it never caused issues. I would not use it on tires since unless you are very careful, some gets on the tread and well that just is not good for corners.
I suppose maybe climate has something to do with it. I live in ND, we get lots of sun but maybe not as much heat as some areas. We also do not have the pollution that many other areas have. These factors could be contributing to issues. 

Oh well, I will use it when ever and others do not have too. It has worked fine for me. If something ever does crack, I will check on the model of car to see if cracking is common or not, then draw my conclusion. Like I said, some cars in the 80s were extremely prone to cracking on dashes regardless of weather or not armor-all was used.

[goon 1492]

yeah i hear ya bro, i live in kc missouri, it gets hot here but tolarable, I just want to share my experiences, and +1 on putting it on the scooter tires I would consider it a no no unless of course the good ol 750k made it to a bike show....

[Kevin D]

Heres an 8 year old Spitfire that came off my front this spring. It was 2 years old when I got it. I've used NoTouch on it a few times but not more than once a year. Bike is garaged and tire has about 10000 on it. Rear was cracked the same, but these cracks were not obvious until I stretched it using the tire levers while removing it.

[eldar]

So then that would indicate that tire cracking is not just caused by armor-all. Other products seem to do it too.

[goon 1492]

no that looks like typical cracking do to a 10 year old tire.
hell an 60-80,000 mile tire will do that in one year thats why its good to buy the good stuff, buy a 20$ tire and you know...

[333]

The manufacturers will tell you to not use anything on your tires.  Most of these products have some form of alcohol and will prematurely dry out the tire.

[goon 1492]

The manufacturers will tell you to not use anything on your tires.  Most of these products have some form of alcohol and will prematurely dry out the tire.

True, that is what i stated above, I have been told to use mothers or meguires brands if I used anything on my tires, and actually my bro said not to use anything on them that they are sealed by the  manufacturer.