Topic: Tire age question

[BobbyR]

The manufacturers will tell you to not use anything on your tires.  Most of these products have some form of alcohol and will prematurely dry out the tire.

True, that is what i stated above, I have been told to use mothers or meguires brands if I used anything on my tires, and actually my bro said not to use anything on them that they are sealed by the  manufacturer.

Back in the day we used paste shoe polish.

[Gordon]

Back in the day we used paste shoe polish.

Ol' Burt would be proud!

[333]

The manufacturers will tell you to not use anything on your tires.  Most of these products have some form of alcohol and will prematurely dry out the tire.

True, that is what i stated above, I have been told to use mothers or meguires brands if I used anything on my tires, and actually my bro said not to use anything on them that they are sealed by the  manufacturer.

They are not sealed in any way.  What it is is the rubber naturally has lubricants that keep it pliable.  Alcohol will rob these lubricants prematurely.  Just keep them clean and if possible, out of the sun and heat.  And when I say heat, I'm referring to parking it on asphalt at home.  Obviously, the perfect scenario is a garage w/cement floor, but we don't always have that.  An idea I had was to build a plywood platform, painted white.  This would keep it off hot pavement, and provide a solid sidestand spot that won't soften like tar will.

[ralt12]

This seems to me to be a crazy debate. Riding on older tires is like waiting for a time bomb to explode. The question is--when to replace?? Lots of views, but if you are riding 25+ year old tires, you need to rethink the risk/reward of that stance.

[Tower]

I admit that 26 year old tyres still in service is extreme.  However, that does not change the analysis that is needed to determine if a tyre (of any age) is acceptable for service. 

The original poster implied by his question that a 6 year old tyre may not be acceptable as "new".  Indeed, it may not be acceptable, if the tyre was not stored properly.  On the other hand, as I mentioned before, age alone is not the determinant of acceptable serviceability.

As for my own deep thoughts on my own tyres ages.....I'll ride the 1982 Michelin's....as they grip as rubber should (like street compounds did from the late 1970's and 1980's, not like silicone compounds of the 1990's), they have been stored away from UV sources (so there is no cracking or micro cracking), they are undamaged (no tears, cuts, gouges, etc), they are unworn (lots of tread).

I would encourage @Canada, the original poster, to examine his 2002 tyres in the same way.  And, depending on how quickly and how much wear those tyres are going to get - tyre age may not be an issue at all.

[BobbyR]

To each his own of you want to risk injury running 1982 tires, I would at least dismount them and have a look at the tubes and the rim strips if nothing else. In my industry we us rubber parts on critical components. We recommended 7 years. We removed the air bags from trains that were 7 years old and sent them for analysis. The lab tests showed they were still serviceable. We took sets that were in service 10 years and 60% failed. That industry data shows that the degradation is not constant, it accelerates rapidly after 8 years as more of the elastic compounds evaporate out of the rubber.

[Helo229]

So now, this whole armor-all thing. Who has actually had it happen to them and how long did it take?

I have not used it on tires but on dashes I have and there was never a problem. And no, I do not apply regularly unless regularly is once every couple of years. Never had a dash crack except from age. 80s cars were horrible about that.

I had a 91 Toyota Celica who's PO used to armor-all the dash constantly, and it was in great shape when I bought it. I don't use armor-all if I can help it, so I never applied it. Within 6 months (bought it in the spring) the dash was drying out and was starting to peel on the corners. I spoke to a couple people, including a guy I knew who ran a detail shop, and the general answer I got was that armor all is basically an penetrating oil/moisturizer. The longer you use it on a regular basis, the more dependant the material you're using it on becomes.

Imagine hanging a cinder block from a cloth rope, and keeping the rope wet. So long as the rope is wet, it will hold. But if you're only wetting the rope once a week, being wet and drying will make the rope's fibers expand, and the cinder block will get lower and lower to the ground over time. Same thing with your dash. It's vacuum formed to the console, so when it gets moisturized/dries/moisturized/dries it becomes loose. When it gets loose, you start to get bubbles as it pulls away from the dash. Those bubbles trap moisture and heat, and turns into cracks, which pop open.

[Tower]

Great point @BobbyR about the inner tubes.  Those did not hold up 26 years and were replaced with new ones.  Inner tube deterioration is a whole new ballgame.  Obviously, there is no place for the rubber to loose compounds except to the air inside the tyre.  However, as the air gets older and older it becomes super saturated with chemicals, including water, and under pressure.  As many of these chemicals are solvents (water is a very good solvent), any weak or stressed spot is rapidly exploited, and blam...so therein lies the problem with old inner tubes - they don't harden, they dissolve.

[BobbyR]

This brings up another excellent point. I was reading an article in Transportation that Truck and Bus fleets are now filling tires with nitrogen. All race cars have been using nitrogen for years. When you fill a tire with air you are introducing oxygen into the space and some moisture also. The Oxygen will begin to oxidize the rubber inside the tire or tube over a period of time. Nitrogen is dry and inert, it will not react with the rubber. It is also a larger molecule and does not migrate through the rubber so your pressure will not decrease as quickly. here is an interesting article on the topic. http://www.innovativebalancing.com/Nitrogen.htm

[troppo]

Another reason they use nitrogen or so ive been told is since its totally inert it wont collapse like normal will meaning you never (theoretically anyway) need to top up your tyre pressure again. A lot of tyre places have it as an option over here.

[markjenn]

Another reason they use nitrogen or so ive been told is since its totally inert it wont collapse like normal will meaning you never (theoretically anyway) need to top up your tyre pressure again. A lot of tyre places have it as an option over here.

Air is 78% nitrogen, 21% oxygen, and 1% trace gases.  It's news to me that the oxygen and trace gas "collapse like normal".  Junk science.

Nitrogen does have some small advantages with respect to moisture and temperature stability over air, but they're very marginal.

- Mark

[eldar]

For historically thrifty services like buses, I doubt they would just throw the money at a nitrogen system if there where marginal results.

The "junk science" you refer to, is actually real.

Air is much more compressible than nitrogen. Meaning the a tire with 35 pounds air will flex more than a tire with 335 pounds nitrogen. As stated before, air leaks out of tires faster which means more time spent airing tires back up, more fuel used and more tire wear.

Did you also know that at a certain temp, you can lose air from your tires that you would not if you used nitrogen?

One final point, if it did not benefit a racecar, it would NOT be used.

Junk science? I doubt it. If you still think so, post sources that claim this so we can all read them and decide for ourselves.

[Tower]

The use of nitrogen is a compromise between efficacy, cost, availability, and side effects.

More stable (inert) and larger molecule alternatives are available, e.g. Neon, Argon, Krypton, Xenon.  These gases will not combine with water and oxygen at all. (Nitrogen forms highly corrosive oxides such as nitric acid, when mixed with water, oxygen and energy)

However, Neon and Argon have very low surface tension and would require much better sealing than tyres, tubes, rims, valves can normally provide.  Krypton and Xenon are very expensive.  All of theses gases are also not atmosphere friendly.

[magnus72]

do you guys know where the datestamp is on the tires?

I'm unsure of the age on a tire i have on there now.

[333]

I think the use of nitrogen has it's place, but not in personal vehicles.  In racing, where 1/2 a pound of pressure makes a difference.  In fleet vehicles, where the cost of maintaining air pressure is calculated.  If you want to pay for nitrogen, go ahead.  But I see it as lazy.

[Tower]

the attached pic shows the location of the tyre code - the last three digits indicate age (371 = 37th week of 1981)

Edit:
On tyres made in the 199Ys the 3-digit code will be followed by a little symbol

On newer tyres it will be a 4-digit code in the format of WWYY, where WW is number of the week of the year, and  YY is the year 20YY.

[eldar]

333,why is it lazy for bus mechanics? They are usually understaffed the way it is. Anything to save time for more important stuff. i mean, do you not have ANY lbor saving devices in your home? A garage door opener for example? I mean, they work fine do they not? Saves time. So is a person lazy just cause they use on? I do not think so. that is like saying a roofing company is lazy for using air hammers instead of a regular hammer.

[Gordon]

Read his post again...

[goon 1492]

333,why is it lazy for bus mechanics? They are usually understaffed the way it is. Anything to save time for more important stuff. i mean, do you not have ANY lbor saving devices in your home? A garage door opener for example? I mean, they work fine do they not? Saves time. So is a person lazy just cause they use on? I do not think so. that is like saying a roofing company is lazy for using air hammers instead of a regular hammer.

Us americans we are lazy 

[eldar]

I guess maybe I am not reading between the right lines gordon. To me, he is saying the bus companies are lazy for using nitrogen.

[Gordon]

I think the use of nitrogen has it's place, but not in personal vehicles.  In racing, where 1/2 a pound of pressure makes a difference.  In fleet vehicles, where the cost of maintaining air pressure is calculated.  If you want to pay for nitrogen, go ahead.  But I see it as lazy.

He's citing examples of where "nitrogen has it's place, but not in personal vehicles".  In racing, and in fleet vehicles.  I'd consider a bus a fleet vehicle, not a personal vehicle.   

[333]

You hit it, Gordon.  Although I knew a dude who had a "personal" bus.

And Eldar.  Your other examples are flawed as well.  I have a bad back.  So if I had a garage(I wish!!), I would have a garage door opener.  Even if my back was good, I'd probably have one to stay dry on a rainy day.  And while roofers are lightning fast with standard hammers, air tools make them that much faster, saving time AND money.  Nothing lazy about a business saving money.

[shoemanII]

well this is pretty weird.  have just been on the bridgestone site looking for date codes for my spitfire 11F tires, i'd like to know how old they are.  plenty of tread, but does anyone know the code?
F are DOT CJ M5 PCD 1603
R are DOT CJ H4 PCE 1303
many thanks,
bobp

[shoemanII]

ah, found it, nevermind.

[eldar]

So it is lazy to use nitrogen in personal vehicles, thus preventing you from having to air them up as often? Wow, I guess  i would rather be lazy than do work I should not have to do. That is kinda like using a 10 year old pc instead of a new one. Oh well, not like I will afford a nitrogen system so I guess it does not matter does it. I figure if there are benefits, then that is good. Continuing technology is good.