Author Topic: HELP A NON-MECHANIC.  (Read 1150 times)

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Offline dramsell

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HELP A NON-MECHANIC.
« on: June 15, 2008, 07:19:25 PM »
Can anyone tell me the procedure to check the swingarm bearing and the front roller bearings?

Wanting to know how to diagnose an apparent wobble and sliding of the rear wheel.

The bike is a 1978 Cb 750K.

Dave R

Offline super pasty white guy

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Re: HELP A NON-MECHANIC.
« Reply #1 on: June 15, 2008, 07:41:23 PM »
As I understand it, just check for play.  Put the bike on the center stand and try to move the swingarm left to right.  If it moves laterally any significant distance, you have issues.  Same with the front, but this time try to move the wheel front - back.  Also, notchiness in the front steering is a good sign that the races are shot.

spwg
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Offline dramsell

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Re: HELP A NON-MECHANIC.
« Reply #2 on: June 16, 2008, 05:07:41 AM »
DOES ANYONE KNOW WHAT THESE SHOULD COST TO REPLACE?

Offline Bodi

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Re: HELP A NON-MECHANIC.
« Reply #3 on: June 16, 2008, 07:29:56 AM »
The steering bearings may just need cleaning and regreasing. If there's some "slop" that's usually all, if there's a notchiness on centre that means the bearing race(s) are worn out and need replacement, usually installing a tapered bearing kit is the best answer - these bearings are much better than the original bicycle style ball bearings. But those bearings are actually fine and work great if not abused...
It's really just a lot of time to remove all the stuff on the steering head and then checking, cleaning, greasing, and reassembling the bike to fix stock bearings. I would guess 2 to 4 hours but I don't know what the "book" says. Shops have these books that indicate the time to do a job, they usually will either charge "book time" (and then if they take longer that's tough for them but if they do it faster that's toght for you) or "straight time" which is on the time clock. With older bikes the straight time is usually your only choice because the mechanic probably has never seen the bike before and has to figure everything out. It's not a huge job to do yourself with a shop manual and simple tools. Take a lot of pictures of the front end showing where wires and cables go, this is critical to get right on reassembly and is not at all easy to guess at. Just be careful when you drop the steering stem, it's easy to lose some of the balls when they drop out. The actual ball count is a bit funny, the top and bottom have different numbers of balls. Reassembly is easy as you just glop grease in the races and set the balls into the grease, they stay in place while you put the stem and top race on. Tighten the nut fairly tight and turn the steering, loosening it until the rotation has just a bit of bearing friction. Check again after the top bridge is on before you install all the attached parts.
The rear bushings are a bugger no matter how experienced you are. The old fibre bushings will be a right ba$tard to get out, the collar they wear against will be worn out of round so that the new bushings can't fit very well. Fibre bushings are near impossible to drive in without breaking. Bronze bushings are good but my experience is that the ones available aftermarket are a sloppy fit, often worse for side play that before changing them. New bushings from Honda are reported to be steel... I don't know how steel-on-steel bearings is a good idea. Hondaman had a service rejuvenating swingarm bushings where you sent him the swingarm and collar... that would be best I think if he still does it.

Offline MCRider

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Re: HELP A NON-MECHANIC.
« Reply #4 on: June 16, 2008, 07:53:46 AM »
Can anyone tell me the procedure to check the swingarm bearing and the front roller bearings?

Wanting to know how to diagnose an apparent wobble and sliding of the rear wheel.

The bike is a 1978 Cb 750K.

Dave R
(Repeating somewhat of what's been said) Put bike on centerstand, detach bottom of shock absorbers as they will give a false feel of firmness. Hold the swingarm and pressure it side to side. ANY amount of play side to side is suspect. Only the slightest of "click" is acceptable.

Reassemble. Have someone push down on rear of bike to elevate front. Remove any cables (clutch is the easiest.) If you don''t then allow for their friction and resistance in your evaluation. Move the fork left to right through its range of motion. ANY "bump, bump, feel is suspect and the deadly "center detent" is unacceptable. Time to replace.

On a endurance raod racer in the late 70s, we broke the races in the front end. While they stayed together in the bike, once we loosened the steering stem the pieces just fell out. Tapered bearings have more drag, but are much stronger and will never "detent".

$50 for the fronts, $175 for rear bronze bushings, thrust washers, new felts, and a new collar. I just bought them for the rear and the fit between the aftermarket bronze bushings and the OEM collar is quite good. Two to 5 hours each with a good manual. But you can do it.
Ron
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1988 NT650 HawkGT;  1978 CB400 Hawk;  1975 CB750F -Free Bird; 1968 CB77 Super Hawk -Ticker;  Phaedrus 1972 CB750K2- Build Thread
"Sometimes the light's all shining on me, other times I can barely see, lately it appears to me, what a long, strange trip its been."

tett

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Re: HELP A NON-MECHANIC.
« Reply #5 on: June 16, 2008, 08:08:47 AM »
The rear bushing on my CB750 was a little sloppy and all it took was a good shot of grease and having the nuts tightened.  Every thing was fine after that.

tett

75 CB750K5
98 Valk

Offline dramsell

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Re: HELP A NON-MECHANIC.
« Reply #6 on: June 16, 2008, 08:17:56 AM »
What about the safety issue?

If I cannot afford to fix these until say August are they still safe to ride?

Thanks guys!

Dave

Offline MCRider

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Re: HELP A NON-MECHANIC.
« Reply #7 on: June 16, 2008, 08:26:24 AM »
What about the safety issue?

If I cannot afford to fix these until say August are they still safe to ride?

Thanks guys!

Dave
Depends on how bad they are. I've seen people ride things I wouldn't sit on sitting still. (slight exageration)

The Center detent condition will really affect your steering once in a turn as slight  movements at the steering head are necessary to be smooth and "safe" and the detent won't allow it.

The rear will make it feel like it has a hinge and will steer against you.

Go slow and tip toe through turns.
Ron
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1988 NT650 HawkGT;  1978 CB400 Hawk;  1975 CB750F -Free Bird; 1968 CB77 Super Hawk -Ticker;  Phaedrus 1972 CB750K2- Build Thread
"Sometimes the light's all shining on me, other times I can barely see, lately it appears to me, what a long, strange trip its been."

Offline super pasty white guy

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Re: HELP A NON-MECHANIC.
« Reply #8 on: June 16, 2008, 08:31:54 AM »
You might want to contact HondaMan about the swingarm.  He's custom machining new parts to fit for a very reasonable price and when it comes back you know it'll be good.

spwg
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Offline dramsell

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Re: HELP A NON-MECHANIC.
« Reply #9 on: June 16, 2008, 03:23:00 PM »
Well, when I got home I put the bike on the centerstand and tried to move the back tire side to side-NO PLAY AT ALL.  I then tried to move the front wheel side to side-NOTHING.  I then turned the handlbars side to side and it DID NOT catch anywhere. It was in fact real smooth.

I then took the bike to a parking lot and did some turns and side to side and could not get it to duplicate what I felt before.

I also checked the rear wheel to see if an excess amount of lube was making it do that and it was dry.

I am stumped.

Any other ideas?

Dave R

Offline Aaron J Williams

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Re: HELP A NON-MECHANIC.
« Reply #10 on: June 17, 2008, 06:15:33 AM »
Low tire pressure? Ply separation in the tread? Loose or uneven spoke tension? Bent rim or tire out of balance?
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Offline MCRider

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Re: HELP A NON-MECHANIC.
« Reply #11 on: June 17, 2008, 11:22:58 AM »
Can anyone tell me the procedure to check the swingarm bearing and the front roller bearings?

Wanting to know how to diagnose an apparent wobble and sliding of the rear wheel.

The bike is a 1978 Cb 750K.

Dave R

We may need to revisit the event. You say you slid and wobbled? If not the fork/swingarm, or the tire as mentioned, then maybe it was the road. Did you cross over a painted stripe while leaned over? That can lead to an exciting slide and wobble.
Ron
Ride Safe:
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1988 NT650 HawkGT;  1978 CB400 Hawk;  1975 CB750F -Free Bird; 1968 CB77 Super Hawk -Ticker;  Phaedrus 1972 CB750K2- Build Thread
"Sometimes the light's all shining on me, other times I can barely see, lately it appears to me, what a long, strange trip its been."