Topic: Phaedrus: CB750 RestoMod - Update: 09/23/21 w/ new video

[traveler]

How in the world are we supposed to maintain a bike budget with this stuff surfacing?

~Joe

[Zaipai]

I agree! Man I was just drooling over it.

[MCRider]

G'Day Ron, you beat me to it, but yep, that's a K0 hub mate. Stick it in the box with those fork seals, I'll take it! Oooh, and I'll need the early speedo drive flange thingy and the chrome cover too? That's a pity about your wheel, what about a wider set of "triple trees" like the one's Rob (Voxonda) in Holland is making? 225 Euro's and he'll make them any width you like? Cheers, Terry.

Well we'll have to talk serious about money. I'll PM you. Today's uncoverings means I'll have to up the budget, so I'll be scratching for parts money

I guess i actually have 2 of the narrow hubs, the one in the wheel, with new bearings and seals, and the one on the bench. I'll have to ask around for value.

Wider trips, as cool as they are, would just inject another round of expenses: instrument mounts, handlebar mounts, spacers for the brakes, another axle with spacers...

So I'll stick to lacing up another wheel. I've about settled on a 2.15x18, and hoping that will give me clearance in 2 directions. A 110/80/18 or a 70 series if available, would be the tire. Probably look better anyway, the 17 is real small.

I really wasn't thinking when I bot the 17", so many years ago. But no way to tell either without giving it a try.  Aargh!

[MCRider]

Well that is all part of the adventure isn't it? How ever I am sure you will find a really good way to fix that fork travel. Sounds like you have the tire thing figured out. Its good to know as I did not even think that a shorter front rim might cause clearance issues. I have to say it looks good so far. Hope you get it all figured out soon. Can't wait to see it running down the road..

Have a safe New Years!

Surely the fork travelcan be easily fixed, but requires removal. Glad I hadn't oiled them up yet.

The smaller diameter rim puts the edge of the rim right at the bolt level for one of the brake bolts, on both sides. And the 2.5 width v the 1.85, hogs all available room. The tire won't even slide thru the brake brackets, I had to remove them to get the wheel in to where it is.

But, we shall persevere. A 2.15x18 will likely work just fine giving more room in two planes.

Others have put 17s on the front, but I don't know what all they went thru. Maybe GL front end (wider) custom made brake mounts, etc.

[MCRider]

I'm sure you could put a spacer between the hub and the rotor...of course that might throw off the speedo pickup.

Sorry to hear of this misfortune...

~Joe

Yeah, but that's just one of the problems. Major issue is that I can't get the brake bracket mounting bolts in from any angle, no room, rim is right there. Back to the drawing board.

[Zaipai]

Yea, it bites when you have to spend more then you thought.. especially now. I am in the same boat. I am spending money for a gas tank because mine decided to split at the seam, the good news is I have the money, the bad news is its going to come at the cost of a new speedometer and tach, so I have to use the old grimy ones for now. Keep at it its looking really good so far, and perhaps you can make it up some place else if you need too. I can't stop looking at it the gold frame with the polished and chrome bits are just awesome!

[Terry in Australia]

Well we'll have to talk serious about money. I'll PM you. Today's uncoverings means I'll have to up the budget, so I'll be scratching for parts money

I guess i actually have 2 of the narrow hubs, the one in the wheel, with new bearings and seals, and the one on the bench. I'll have to ask around for value.

Wider trips, as cool as they are, would just inject another round of expenses: instrument mounts, handlebar mounts, spacers for the brakes, another axle with spacers...

So I'll stick to lacing up another wheel. I've about settled on a 2.15x18, and hoping that will give me clearance in 2 directions. A 110/80/18 or a 70 series if available, would be the tire. Probably look better anyway, the 17 is real small.

I really wasn't thinking when I bot the 17", so many years ago. But no way to tell either without giving it a try.  Aargh!

No worries Ron, no rush, when you're ready mate. Have you got an 18 inch wheel you can slot in just to confirm caliper bracket clearance etc? I'm wondering how much clearance another 1/2" either way will give you? The 17" rear/18" front is a good combo and tire availability isn't an issue, my BMW has the same tire sizes and there are plenty of choices available. Cheers, Terry.

[MCRider]

snip

No worries Ron, no rush, when you're ready mate. Have you got an 18 inch wheel you can slot in just to confirm caliper bracket clearance etc? I'm wondering how much clearance another 1/2" either way will give you? The 17" rear/18" front is a good combo and tire availability isn't an issue, my BMW has the same tire sizes and there are plenty of choices available. Cheers, Terry.
[/quote]
No 18" to look at. But if I go with a 2.15 instead of the 2.5, and the 18 v the 17, I'm thinking I'll be all right. I'll definitely spend some time with the measuring stick first. Bucahanans is closed till the 3rd. I'll be calling them for help. If they can't replace or swap out my 17" rim I'll put it on ebay. Don't know about the spokes, maybe just ebal them as well. Pity, waste. I spent the money 10 years ago so the pain is not severe.

I got to thinking the 17 front was just too much, I did it on impulse. Sure enough.

The 18 is much more sensible for the bike and its purpose. ASsuming it fits.

[MCRider]

Yahoo! 3 freakin degF!  But, with enough clothes and some decent heat we put in our time...sort of. I'm shooting for 5 hours per week. Usually I want that to be shop time, time on the computer doesn't count. But this week....

Sold several parts during the week, with leads on more, gotta build up the coffers...

Anyway, I got to Cycle Outfitters to remove the front tire yesterday. I just can't do that with tire irons anymore. And with their machine the rim is never scratched. Which is important now that it seems I'll need to go with a 2.15x18 vs the 2.5x17 I tried out for. And sell the 2.5 x 17" rim

A 2.15 will still hold a 110/70 properly so I'll be satisfied with that. Phone calls to Buchanans Monday as they've been closed for the Holidays.

For today, we had to tackle why one fork leg would travel more than the other. Removed the legs from the trips and disassembled.



Nothing obvious, just trial and error. So here's what we found. I had thouroughly cleaned the lower legs (I thought). The damper rod is not listed in the parts books nor covered in any manual. But when i wanted to have the lowers Cryogenically treated, the tech told me to loosen the studs and the bolt that hold the damper rod in as they are steel and will expand/contract at a different rate than the aluminum leg. So I figured well if i have to loosen them I might as well take them out. Lo and behold the dampers were packed with ages of crud, so i'm glad for that. Got them squeaky clean.

(I forgot to get a picture with the damper rods out)

So now upon reinstall, there must be just enough play in the damper rods to interfere with the full travel of the fork. We reinstalled the dampers tightening the bolts almost tight. Then installed the tubes to full compression and finished tightening the dampers. Now both legs travel equally to full extension/compression with no interference.



Finally, I was suspicious that the Forks from Frank's legs were longer than the 2" over I ordered as there seemed to be a lot of free leg under the lower trip. But as the tape in above pic indicates they are 25", exactly 2" over the stock 23", so all's well.

With 1.25" above the top trip, that leaves .75 below the bottom trip, which is just enough to make up for the smaller diameter wheel, depending on the tire aspect I end up with. There's just a lot of free leg under the lower trip, even on a stocker.



So, during this week, I'll blow the 17" front wheel apart, sell the pre k1 hub (maybe to Terry) and the 2.5x17 rim, polish up the Phaedrus 1 hub for reuse, new bearings, and order the 18" rim and spokes from Bucahanans.

Bit by bit...

PS: for you CB750 guys, ever notice how far off the left and rt footpegs are from each other? With the engine its hard to see, but without it, its pretty obvious.
PPS: I had a nightmare last night that it was all together and on start up the headcheeze leaked oil all across the backside of the gasket like a waterfall.  Yikes!

[Ecosse]

computer time doesn't count? mc, i'm hurt! 




 




i'm glad your fork travel mystery was resolved and a reminder for me to retrace steps even if i'm positive everything i've done thus far is correct. i'll swear to god i'm squared away... but then it HAS to be something, right?

what do you reckon the reason for the peg offset?

[wannabridin]

so MC, going with an 18" front?  are you going to keep the 17" rear?  i remember you told me awhile back to go with 18's front and rear for the best handling effects, which i plan on doing later this year!  i'm glad the fork dilemma worked itself out, that could of been a HUGE headache!!  and don't worry about the nightmare, it's just the motorcycle god's way of testing your reaction to possible disaster!!  all WILL be well friend!

[Terry in Australia]

Nice work Ron, looking good! If you're not using gaitors, you could probably push your tubes back down the extra 1.25" with no problems, I'm running 2 inch overs on my K1 "Kruiser" with no handling problems, even with a (slightly) lowered rear end.

I think the footpeg offsets had something to do with the relative distances to the pedals, although I was recently given a set of K0 footpegs (the non-hinged variety) and there is no offset, so to speak? That's one of the things that fascinates me with CB750's, the subtle changes made during their evolution. Cheers, Terry.
 

[MCRider]

computer time doesn't count? mc, i'm hurt! 




 




i'm glad your fork travel mystery was resolved and a reminder for me to retrace steps even if i'm positive everything i've done thus far is correct. i'll swear to god i'm squared away... but then it HAS to be something, right?

what do you reckon the reason for the peg offset?

Can't say for sure, many bikes have it. Boxer BMWs are offset IIRC. The cylinders are one forward of the other and so are the pegs. On our CB, the left is about straight out from the bolt as that's what it takes to give big shoes like Terry's room to shift without hitting the alternator cover. I don't have the motor in, maybe that isn't an issue?

The right one is a good inch or so forward, as the crankcase bulge is smaller on the ignition. Gives a little more relaxed ankle bend for the brake. Gives a little more clearance for the kicker too, maybe.

[MCRider]

so MC, going with an 18" front?  are you going to keep the 17" rear?  i remember you told me awhile back to go with 18's front and rear for the best handling effects, which i plan on doing later this year!  i'm glad the fork dilemma worked itself out, that could of been a HUGE headache!!  and don't worry about the nightmare, it's just the motorcycle god's way of testing your reaction to possible disaster!!  all WILL be well friend!

Yeah, only cuz the 17 won't fit between the brake brackets. I've seen CB750 cafe racers with 17 fronts, they must be using the wider GL front end.

I'll keep the 17 rear no problem there, it was standard size on later CBs, but a step down from the 18 on mine.

18s front and rear are arguably the best. I have a rolling chassis 75 750F with a 3.5x18 rear and a 2.5x18 front. The guy I bot it from had them made by Buchanans. But it doesn't have brakes on it so we're guessing they'll fit. For a cafe racer I would vote for the 18s for all around performance. Especially ground clearance, which can be dear. I may be too low on Phaedrus, but i can get some taller shocks.

That's the first really identifiable dream I've had about this bike and it didn't go the way i could have wished. Its been a while, But I've built engines before that never leaked a drop, so let's hope.

[MCRider]

Nice work Ron, looking good! If you're not using gaitors, you could probably push your tubes back down the extra 1.25" with no problems, I'm running 2 inch overs on my K1 "Kruiser" with no handling problems, even with a (slightly) lowered rear end.

I think the footpeg offsets had something to do with the relative distances to the pedals, although I was recently given a set of K0 footpegs (the non-hinged variety) and there is no offset, so to speak? That's one of the things that fascinates me with CB750's, the subtle changes made during their evolution. Cheers, Terry.
 

Yeah, I went with the 2" overs so I could do whatever I wanted/needed to do.  Thought a little more volume might help the airforks too. I'll have the cables/hoses made to accept a little length if i want to use it.

Curious about the pegs. My 67 Bonneville had solid pegs. Stuck em into the asphalt on a hard left hander. Picked up the rear end and sent me into the weeds, my first get off. Left a nice long gouge in the asphalt.   

[Ecosse]

That's the first really identifiable dream I've had about this bike and it didn't go the way i could have wished. Its been a while, But I've built engines before that never leaked a drop, so let's hope.

fwiw: i wouldn't take that dream as a bad omen. it's logical if you think about it; sorta like preparing for the worst (and hoping for the best) not to mention the obvious point this project means a bunch to you.

[MCRider]

That's the first really identifiable dream I've had about this bike and it didn't go the way i could have wished. Its been a while, But I've built engines before that never leaked a drop, so let's hope.

fwiw: i wouldn't take that dream as a bad omen. it's logical if you think about it; sorta like preparing for the worst (and hoping for the best) not to mention the obvious point this project means a bunch to you.

Yup.

[mystic_1]

Curious about the pegs. My 67 Bonneville had solid pegs. Stuck em into the asphalt on a hard left hander. Picked up the rear end and sent me into the weeds, my first get off. Left a nice long gouge in the asphalt.   

I contemplated getting some K0 pegs from Yamiya, but discarded the idea for exactly this reason.

mystic_1

[MCRider]

Yikes, It was 2 degF Sunday morning. But the heaters knocked the chilloff and we got our time in. During the week I sold quite a bit of parts. The 17" rim and spokes are gone, a Dyno cover, 2 hubs, axle, speedo drive, misc, kick starter shaft, probably some other stuff. Raised enough to pay for the new Excel rim and spokes which should be here from Buchanans any day. That all takes time to do the deals, pack the stuff up and ship. Not true shop time but i count it towards the project.

So we spent the shop time blowing apart the 17" wheel for shipping to the buyers. Stood at the solvent tank for an hour cleaning parts. I didn't want to put away my last Dyno cover without getting it ready for the next purpose. One of the three screws holdong the primary field in was fubar, so we set about to drill it out. The one on the right



Drilled the head off in 3 stages, going smoothly:



Tapped it with a punch and the field coil fell out as expected:



Cut the stub flush to the surface with a cutoff wheel on the Dremel



Filed it flat, the centerpunched it



The drilling went smoothly stepped up the sizes one by one, then went to tap out the remaining threads...and broke the G--D---- tap!



Threw the whole mess in the trash and went back to the solvent tank.

For next week, hope to assemble the new wheel, maybe put the headlight and brakes on.

[HavocTurbo]

Oh man!!

I'm sorry to hear that. There was no saving it? I might be able to get it all out.

Hope everything else is going smoothly for you.

[MCRider]

Oh man!!

I'm sorry to hear that. There was no saving it? I might be able to get it all out.

Hope everything else is going smoothly for you.

It was an extra. Just thought i could save it, but lost an hour+, so it felt good to can it. In drilling it I'd run the bit thru to where it was kicking out some copper, so I may have ruined it anyway. Fate's way of telling me to can it. Thanks anyway.

I got my 18" rim from Buckys and spokes yesterday. So I gotta polish up my hub to lace the thing up.

Hows the rehab?

[Ecosse]

It was an extra. Just thought i could save it, but lost an hour+, so it felt good to can it. In drilling it I'd run the bit thru to where it was kicking out some copper, so I may have ruined it anyway. Fate's way of telling me to can it. Thanks anyway.

man i know the feeling. 



hope all is well havoc. 

[HavocTurbo]

Hurts....

I can walk with a cane now. Slowly but I can do it. They have still confined me to a wheelchair for daily use but that all changes next week.

Got my shoulder harness off last week (4th separation on this shoulder) and they pretty much said if I do it again I'll be looking at total joint replacement. Then again they told me I'd never be able to use full motion either but I move jsut fine so.... eh.

Glad to see the build is still progressing nicely.

[MCRider]

Man stop doing that!   

[MCRider]

A pretty good session, shortened by domestic chores. First eyeball the new rim for clearance. remember, scrapped the 2.50 x17" in favor of a 2.15 x 18. Still, wider and lighter than stock, just not so much. Problem was getting the brake bracketbolts in.  Found the center of the rim, pushed the axle thru, centered it in the forks and it appears the worst of the brake bracketbolts will fit.




Did the grease gun trick on the stubborn caliper piston. The threaded part of the gun hose would only catch a few threads, but that was enough.



A few easy pumps



And it was out! Too freakin easy!



It did fill the caliper with grease, but such a small price to pay!



On to the front hub. Didn't get to polish it, save that chore for later. tried to get the bearing retainer off, drilled out the stakes. Retainer wouldn't budge, but without the rim laced up there wasn't much to hold on to. Soaked it in solvent, set aside. Just occurred to me I can stick two disc bolte thru the hub, then chuck it up in the vice. That should hole it steady enough for retainer removeal.

On to the front turn signals. Someone else had a thread this week about how to put turnsignals on this style fork ear. I mentioned they should go thru the headlight mount bolt holes. Sure enough they will

Swapped out the old headlight into the new hardware, new mounting and chrome rings.

Old headlight is a 7" CIBIE lens, will use over, very nice low and high beam patterns.



Mounted all in fork, mock up.






Gotta run, things to do.

Next week, hopefully I can polish the hub during the week and lace the wheel in next session.