Topic: Phaedrus: CB750 RestoMod - Update: 09/23/21 w/ new video

[Zaipai]

Wow that is one super clean build, can't wait to see what you do with it next. I will have to try the grease gun trick, I have a stuck puck also and had not seen that before.. Watching with great interest.

Thanks!

.: Scott :.

[wannabridin]

MC,

nice progress!!  looks like you were able to find a bit more "real" wrenching time, and not waste it on uneventful tasks that seem to wreak havoc on your progress!  how much does that new front rim weigh compared to stock?  also, do you have the stainless spokes ready to go on?

[MCRider]

MC,

nice progress!!  looks like you were able to find a bit more "real" wrenching time, and not waste it on uneventful tasks that seem to wreak havoc on your progress!  how much does that new front rim weigh compared to stock?  also, do you have the stainless spokes ready to go on?

Thank you.

I suppose the aluminum vs steel rim is a couple of pounds. Don't really know. The wider, smaller tire, and the /70-18 tire vs a /90 -19 tire is the real weight savings probably 4 pounds or more.

The 17" tire was way lighter than the 19"er that came off. It was a 110/90-19 and was a monster carcass. But ca't use it so the 18 is a good compromise.

Yes I bot the rim and spokes from Buchanans. THey drilled the rim for the CB750 hub ( part of the rim price) and cut the spokes to proper length. About $92 for the "custom spoke kit".

[mystic_1]

I like the way your steering head area is shaping up, Ron.  Nice proportions and flow.

mystic_1

[MCRider]

I like the way your steering head area is shaping up, Ron.  Nice proportions and flow.

mystic_1

Thanks.

THe fork ears hold the headlight bucket a little more forward than the stockers I think. May also be an illusion as that bucket may not have as much meat on its backside as a stocker.  Which leads to the question, will the wiring harness reach? Here's hoping. MAybe I'll stretch out the harness next week and hook up some electrics.

[MCRider]

Hooray, just got the last (yeah right) box of parts back from the Cryo. Spare cams, sprockets, clutch pressure plates, shift drums, shift forks, pistons and pins.

Engine is ready to start back together. But I want to get the frame on wheels first. That'll get the workbench completely cleaned off before unloading engine parts onto it.

[MCRider]

I couldn't wait. I've bot these LED fluted chrome bullet turn signals for Phaedrus. I think they fit the style better than the alloy ones that are on it now. Closer in, chrome, fluted, tapered.

Real 70s Chic!      

http://www.customdynamics.com/led_mini_bullets.htm

[wannabridin]

i used to have a pair of those on my 01 spirit, the fluted ones, just like that!  they were pretty nice, but just not bright enough for me...

can't wait to see the rolling chassis!!!

[MCRider]

i used to have a pair of those on my 01 spirit, the fluted ones, just like that!  they were pretty nice, but just not bright enough for me...

can't wait to see the rolling chassis!!!

I think they look really cool. And that's what I want at this stage. But they may not be bright enough, for sure. The minis that I've run, and that are mounted on Phaedrus now are not. None of them are DOT legal, I know.

THe new ones are LED and are supposed to be brighter, I don't understand all this high tech stuff.   

If I seriously take the bike for a trip, I really hope to, I won't be adverse to putting a set of stockers on. They won't be hard to switch out if it comes to that.

[HavocTurbo]

You should've PM'd me.... I could have murdered that price.

Anyway... serious progress on the bike this week. May not seem like much but man does that front end look sweet. Way further than I am on my XS850. I'm finally able to touch it without wincing in pain.

How do the cryoed parts feel? Any different?

As always... I'm extremely jealous of all the little things you are doing that I seem to have forgotten about. 

[MCRider]

You should've PM'd me.... I could have murdered that price.

Anyway... serious progress on the bike this week. May not seem like much but man does that front end look sweet. Way further than I am on my XS850. I'm finally able to touch it without wincing in pain.

How do the cryoed parts feel? Any different?

As always... I'm extremely jealous of all the little things you are doing that I seem to have forgotten about. 

Darn:
I don't think of you as a source so much. On the one hand that's good, means you're not abusing the site. On the other hand I do want to patronize members. Sorry.

No difference in feel. If anything the parts look a little worse for wear after being frozen then baked. My kickstarter shafts looked reall #$%*in after the shot peening. Then the Cryo made them look like they were covered with exzema. Same with the transmission. Good thing those parts are buried away in the engine.

That's my goal, make everyone jealous, eat your heart out!          

[MCRider]

The new signals are LED and seem to be VERY bright. Probably not more candlepower, just a more concentrated look. Pictures on Sunday.

[Ecosse]

regarding the finish of cryo treated parts i wonder if polishing is an option for alum. and chrome. also, if something should be treated before chroming or after.

can a part be shot peened after the deep freeze?

notice how i assume you are all knowing in matters of cryogenically treating parts?

 

[wannabridin]

i'd reckon to say you'd wanna cryo parts AFTER shot peening.  the shot will increase the surface stresses of the part which hardens the surface to a certain depth, and a good cryo freeze will help to homogenize the grain structure which will increase its strength and tie the shot treatment together which results in a tougher and stronger part.

doing it the other way will cause the residual stress to be created after the cryo's grain structure is created, which will in turn defeat the purpose of a cryo treatment.

after a peening and cryo treatment the surface would have a uniform yet pitted appearance which isn't pretty and chrome will make it look worse.  you could polish it some with sand paper and other abrasive media, but will decrease some of the surface hardness by smoothing out the surface and reducing the total area.  so you could still gain benefits by peening then cryo'ing the part followed by chroming, but it wouldn't be to the highest strength potential. 

i don't know if this is correct, but i went to school for my metallurgy and materials degree, so this is what makes sense to me based on my background...

[MCRider]

regarding the finish of cryo treated parts i wonder if polishing is an option for alum. and chrome. also, if something should be treated before chroming or after.

can a part be shot peened after the deep freeze?

notice how i assume you are all knowing in matters of cryogenically treating parts?

 

Regarding the finish, other than the rear sprocket, none of the parts I've had treated are exterior, so the finish is of no concern. I powdercoated the sprocket shield and will run it over the sprocket.

I take that back, I did have my lower legs treated as well, for the internal friction, and they look fine. They were polished to begin with.

My Cryo guy said as a rule, he would prefer cryoing first before any other machining or treatment. Without putting words in his mouth, essentially the cryo is a deep treatment and others are surface treatments. Hence do the deep first, then work your way out to the surface. We never discussed shot peening specifically. But machining for sure.

The only part I had done both to were the kickstarter shafts, and purely by chance the shotpeening was done first.

I think from what Jeff (tech) has said, it doesn't make a huge difference, gains will be realized either way you do it. And I haven't run across any testing either way.

Lots of testimonials from drag racers that they are getting quite a few more runs out of blocks and cranks that have been treated. They have the rapid turnover of runs necessary to accumulate data. Hundreds maybe in a season. Us street bike guys will hardly get a few good tests in a lifetime

I have tried to educate myself as much as possible from the internet and from talkimg with the tech.

[MCRider]

And so, here we go. I got the front hub pretty much polished. Took hours. I'm not very good. But i'll tell you its not something I'm drawn to. ant the polish wheel really makes a mess putting dones of dust and stuff in the air, and on the bike. I need to spend a little more time with it in brown then white finish rouge. So I didn't get to lacing the wheel.  

The little mini lights are really cool, and I got sidetracked on installing them. It all has to be done sooner or later, so I guess its not really a sidetrack. I wanted toi see how bright they are and realized I could plug them in to the electric vest outlet on my FJR. Looking right at them they are very bright.

Look off to the side, and they dim down

Still pretty cool though. But being LEDs, the instructions say I'll need an "equalizer", which they sell I suppose. I'll have to learn up about it. I know many of you here are into LEDs.
Here's a comparo against the satin finish alloy jobs. Front

From the riders perspective:

Rear


And installed they virtually disappear into the chrome background

and really tuck in, on the rear. Polished up the rear brackets.

I'm not kidding myself, I know these are not DOT approved or even reasonable signal lights. But for this purpose they're what I want for now. I started out on bikes that didn't even have signals, so its a nostalgia thing.

Goal continues to be, get the front wheel finished and get the frame on rubber.  Get all frame parts off the workbench and get the motor up on it.

need new bearings. Z1 has a front wheel kit for $16, seems way too cheap. i called them and they said they were "all ballz" which many here seem to like, so I'll buy them.

[hoodellyhoo]

Looking good as usual. I really like how those signals are so well camouflaged!

[wannabridin]

MC,

The LED's don't have any load to get them to light up, they're solid state electrics.  The reason you don't need a resistor (a current drawing device) on an incandescent bulb is because the filament acts like a resistor, hence the "warm up" and "cool down" times you see when they turn on and off.  this current draw will give the delay to the flasher and allow it blink at the right rate.  with no current draw in an LED, there is no delay to the flasher which causes it to flash quickly.  I'm sure you know why LED's are so popular, so I hope this helped to answer questions you may have had 

[MCRider]

MC,

The LED's don't have any load to get them to light up, they're solid state electrics.  The reason you don't need a resistor (a current drawing device) on an incandescent bulb is because the filament acts like a resistor, hence the "warm up" and "cool down" times you see when they turn on and off.  this current draw will give the delay to the flasher and allow it blink at the right rate.  with no current draw in an LED, there is no delay to the flasher which causes it to flash quickly.  I'm sure you know why LED's are so popular, so I hope this helped to answer questions you may have had 

Thanks for that and thanks for thinking I know more than I do. I know nothing about LEDs, or why anyone would want them. Incandescent bulbs were good enough for my dad and good enough for me dag gummit.

What's this new fangled gadgetry no one needs?      

[Zaipai]

MC,

The LED's don't have any load to get them to light up, they're solid state electrics.  The reason you don't need a resistor (a current drawing device) on an incandescent bulb is because the filament acts like a resistor, hence the "warm up" and "cool down" times you see when they turn on and off.  this current draw will give the delay to the flasher and allow it blink at the right rate.  with no current draw in an LED, there is no delay to the flasher which causes it to flash quickly.  I'm sure you know why LED's are so popular, so I hope this helped to answer questions you may have had 

Thanks for that and thanks for thinking I know more than I do. I know nothing about LEDs, or why anyone would want them. Incandescent bulbs were good enough for my dad and good enough for me dag gummit.

What's this new fangled gadgetry no one needs?      

Lol.. You forget the " Now get off my lawn you punks!! "....

Also nice choice on the turn signals. They look great!

.: Scott :.

[wannabridin]

haha, oh come on MC, you can't be that old!

well LED's are desired because they usually only draw about 1/10th or less the amount of power that a conventional incandescent bulb draws.  this is because it only takes a very small amount of voltage, and therefore power, to release electrons in the semi-conductor material to their respective "holes" which cause a release of energy in the form of a photon, light.  they're also great because they have a life of 10,000-100,000 hours, meaning they practically last forever.  the only drawback is that unlike incandescent's, LED's only "throw" light in a narrow field, which negates the use of special reflector housings.  incandescent's only need a parabolic reflector so they can be seen everywhere needed easily.

have you ever looked at a bare LED, like one on a circuit board.  if you turn it to the side, you can tell that it's not REALLY where the light is coming from.  now turn a standard turn signal bulb to the side, and the light is the same everywhere due to the filament being omnidirectional.  this is the reason that LED's aren't seriously used as headlights.  that and the fact that true high power LED's are BIG $$$$.  well, i hope this helps you understand them a little bit more.  i could get into some more details if you really want, but i think you have more important matters to attend to!   

[MCRider]

A couple of other things to round out the report. A very comfortable 50 degF this weekend, odd for Indy in Jan.

A bonus for buying the lights were a promotional bag of "chrome plated zip ties". What'll they think of next, and just what I needed!   

[MCRider]

haha, oh come on MC, you can't be that old!

well LED's are desired because they usually only draw about 1/10th or less the amount of power that a conventional incandescent bulb draws.  this is because it only takes a very small amount of voltage, and therefore power, to release electrons in the semi-conductor material to their respective "holes" which cause a release of energy in the form of a photon, light.  they're also great because they have a life of 10,000-100,000 hours, meaning they practically last forever.  the only drawback is that unlike incandescent's, LED's only "throw" light in a narrow field, which negates the use of special reflector housings.  incandescent's only need a parabolic reflector so they can be seen everywhere needed easily.

have you ever looked at a bare LED, like one on a circuit board.  if you turn it to the side, you can tell that it's not REALLY where the light is coming from.  now turn a standard turn signal bulb to the side, and the light is the same everywhere due to the filament being omnidirectional.  this is the reason that LED's aren't seriously used as headlights.  that and the fact that true high power LED's are BIG $$$$.  well, i hope this helps you understand them a little bit more.  i could get into some more details if you really want, but i think you have more important matters to attend to!  

I had sortof gathered some of those facts, the ones I could from observation, but not the technical. Since the instructions say I'll need an "equalizer" (resistor?) and that I may have to experiment with flashers to get one that I like, doesn't that negate the energy saving quality? I don't really care just curious.

It appears that the company I bot the lights from gives technical help and probably sells what I'll need.

[wannabridin]

ya, the load equalizer is just a bundle of resistors in a neat little box to make it easy to install in line.  they emulate the bulbs filament so they can flash with the proper timing.  the resistor doesn't necessarily cause the system to suck up more energy, since they still have to turn on and off.  it's just in line to slow down the flash rate a little, but i would bet that your energy savings with LED equivalent bulbs is high enough to offset the cost.  i will hopefully be using LED bulbs when i do my build, just to help keep the load off the charging system as much as i can.  but for applications in a brake light assembly, a dual intensity LED will save a lot more energy over a standard dual filament bulb, without the use of a resistor pack.

and 12v LED will work as long as there's 12 volts or so going into it, but when you must consider load levels, like in turn signals, you need to start thinking about some resistance

[mystic_1]

Actually, so-called "load equalizers" ARE there to consume extra power.

Standard blinker relays use a bimetallic strip.  This is a strip made of two pieces of different metals that are joined to each other.  One end is firmly mounted, the other end is touching a contact point.  When current flows through the strip, the two metals expand at different rates and so the strip flexes to one side.  As a result, the end of the strip breaks contact with the contact point, and current stops flowing.  The strip cools and returns to it's original shape, making contact again, allowing current to flow again.  Lather, rinse, repeat.


Now, since LED's have so little energy consumption, the current flow isn't enough to heat up the bimetallic strip, or it heats it only very little.  So, you get either no blinking, or very fast blinking.    Fast blinking because the bimetallic strip doesn't heat up (and therefore flex) very much at all, so it cools off very quickly and returns to it's resting shape quickly.



Now, "load equalizers" are installed across the turn signal leads, not inline with the LED's.  In other words, they're hooked up in parallel rather than in series.  If they were hooked up in series, they'd affect the operation of the LEDs, making them dimmer.  When hooked up in parallel, they allow some current to flow through themselves and then to ground.  This extra current is what "emulates" the bulb filaments, resulting in more current flow through the blinker, and restores your flash rate.



Instead of going this route, you can get a flasher relay that's specifically designed to work with LED turn signals.  Consider that more and more late-model cars have LED signals and brake lights.   The right flashers are out there, you just have to find them.

Load equalizers are for people who want to install LED signals without changing anything else at all on their bike.  Based on this thread, I suspect you're not in that camp

mystic_1