Topic: Phaedrus: CB750 RestoMod - Update: 09/23/21 w/ new video

[MCRider]

Hi Chris, maybe you can plan on this? Doesn't include Clifty Falls, too much for one day. Maybe next time.

http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=93497.msg1042151#msg1042151

[MCRider]

Back to work. No more getaways planned, for Sundays anyway. Its been really hot here. New record, 22 straight days at or above 90. And it is the humidity.   

Nice breeze thru the shop yesterday (doors at each end) so rolled a few chassis out, and cleaned up. Did some wire repair to the Prestolite ignition, shrink tube, installed it. Farted around with the brakes. Still not really right, but I'll get it. Dragging awful hard.  Easy for the hours to melt away on details. Polishing covers never ends.

Could be wrong. I think this points cover is fairly rare.


Hope to make some headway during the week, supposed to be pleasant evenings finally.

[MCRider]

Got my time in again but just barely.  No pics.

Last week we rolled the bikes out to clean. That's when I realized the front brakes on Phaedrus weren't releasing. The calipers seals, pistons, pads etc are all new. They responded to taps, so I suspect the used master cylinder. Couldn't get much further into it. Found another VF500 MC on eBay and won it last night. I really like the shape and look of the VF500 MC.  Supposedly off a working bike a salvage yard was parting out.

Checked with PartsNMore at Forum member suggestion. They have a universal one, but it has a left hand thread on the mirror. Adapters are available but I'd prefer a rt hand to start with.

I ordered some misc brake parts, lines and fittings from BikeBandit (Goodrich) which are not likely the problem, but will eliminate some variables as I've used the old lines and fittings.

Worked on the brake pedal. The pivot end was chromed, at my request. Brown said they would mask off the splines and they did a good job but still it needed some hand work to get the pedal on.

A few other mundane details, but each one is something that has to be done.

[Dyrden]

Keep up the good work.  The "sohc" points cover is still produced today.  They run about 100.00 from a Japanese aftermarket company.

[Terry in Australia]

Looking good Ron, I've got a points cover like that one mate, I thought it was quite rare too, I'll have to check the Yamiya site for a repop as mine has a fin missing on the bottom.

You mention the "Prestolite" ignition, have you used it before? I bought a few of them for Suzuki GS1000's from a guy I know in Oregon back in 1999, and after several problems I decided the one I'd fitted was faulty, so I asked the question of the members on TheGSResources.com site, and everyone told me they are rubbish? What's your experience with them? Cheers, Terry.   

[bwaller]

Terry I'll jump in ahead of Ron on the Prestolite ignition. I installed one on my 750 in 75 and it failed 33 years later. In that time the bike never started or idled better. It's obviously only a single trigger, but for a street bike I won't bad mouth it.

[MCRider]

Looking good Ron, I've got a points cover like that one mate, I thought it was quite rare too, I'll have to check the Yamiya site for a repop as mine has a fin missing on the bottom.

You mention the "Prestolite" ignition, have you used it before? I bought a few of them for Suzuki GS1000's from a guy I know in Oregon back in 1999, and after several problems I decided the one I'd fitted was faulty, so I asked the question of the members on TheGSResources.com site, and everyone told me they are rubbish? What's your experience with them? Cheers, Terry. 

Its a leftover from Phaedrus I. Installed in 1980, used till 1995 about 50K miles. never a peep. I don't think i ever touched the settings again either.

So here's hoping for good luck. It may be mad at me for keeping it in a plastic bag for 16 years.

A quick search shows they are still in business http://www.thefind.com/cars/info-prestolite-ignition  but I can't find any reference to Japanese ignitions. Mostly car stuff. ACCEL is a Prestolite compnay. I think they sell ignitions for Harleys under either the Presto or Accel badge.  http://www.accel-motorcycle.com/News/tabid/230/EntryId/80/-Unilite-Electronic-Ignition-Module-Testing-a-How-To-Video.aspx

Clicj the Products link. Tons of stator based stuff for Japs.  Curious why they got out of our market. Maybe just not enough volume to play.

[Terry in Australia]

Thanks guys, that's interesting. Cheers, Terry. 

[MCRider]

My point cover is the only one like it I've seen, leave it to Terry to have another. Not likely ourbikes will ever be seen together.    And at $100+ bucks (dyrden) won't see many others. Don't know where i got mine, cheap I suppose.

So ever take 1 step forward and 2 steps back? One thing I never thought I'd have to spend much time on with this project was the brakes. I had a fully functional 2 brake setup, figured it would transfer forward. But somewhere between 1995 and now something happened. i changed out the hub, thinking they were all the same. Not! And I got some newer (lower mileage, but from an ealrier model) fork lower legs thinking they were all the same, Not! So now were struggling trying to shim this thing up to work. After getting it bled it had a great feel, but wouldn't release. This problem has been covered in depth in other threads. 95+% of the time the problem is the master cylinder. We're using a junkyard MC from a VF500. Not knowing for sure if it's return was plugged and not seeing any access to clean it, I scored a new/used one from eBay. The seller (junkyard) couldn't even take the time to drain it, just wrapped it in celophane and sent it full of fluid. Amazingly it didn't leak.

We got it installed and bled without difficulty, practice making perfect. At the time of the swap i see that the chrome banjo bolt was several mm longer than the OEM bolt, so we cleaned it (OEM) up and used it to eliminate the variables.

Still wouldn't release. So gotta tear into the calipers. Low probability problem as all parts are reconditioned and/or new. new ORings, new phenolic pistons, new pads that were sized to fit without binding. Still gotta do it.

During the removal process I noticed that the left caliper (rt side on backwards) kinda shifted as I was taking it off. I'd had to saw a lug and shim up a lug due to the new to me fork legs. So looking at the rotors i see the pads have been touching only on the inside radius, so maybe that caliper is in a bind. Sort that out. If I'd caught it soon enough i could have checked to see if it was only the lft caliper hanging up, that would have told the tale. but I already had the rt one off. It fits with no shimming so if it is hanging its totally the puck/piston/Oring dynamic.

While I'm at it, wasn't happy reusing the Phaedrus I brake lines. They were AN4 automotive styles made up back in the 70s and I am having trouble getting them to stop leaking. The new stuff is all AN3, much more petite and well, new. I'm going with Goodridge stuff from BikeBandit. I asked the forum supplier http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=54790.0 and he declined the work as i have too many variables and he was afraid it may not come out right. I appreciate that.

The Goodridge stuff is priced good and trimmed in chrome, and I'm a chrome whore. Hope to have everything back in time for next Sunday.


The SS braid is dipped in clearcoat, the fittings are chrome.

So brakes on the workbench. If that's boring the clutch and alternator are calling me too. Sigh.

[MCRider]

Off topic: Cat in the inbox. (recent rescue from humane society)

On topic:
Back to a full Sunday session. During the week, I ordered the balance of the parts from Goodridge at BikeBandit to replumb my brakes with AN3 size hoses and fittings. I was going to reuse the AN4 stuff I'd had made and procured back in 1980. But with the brake problem (pucks won't retrack) I took the opportunity to get all new clearcoated hose and chrome fittings.
The lower 3 parts are the new, the upper parts are going into archive.

Non-retracting pucks are usually a result of 1 of 2 things: calipers or master cylinder. Last week we'd aquired a new to us MC from ebay. it bled out quickly but still the pucks wouldn't retract. Of course its not totally new, so there's the remote chance its still the MC. We'll see.

The calipers have all new parts. But the left one upon inspection, may have been in a bind with a poorly sized spacer. That's what I'm voting on. Its been redone. I took the right caliper off to remove the tapered seat I left in it. Without that seat, I can run the hose straight into the caliper with a straight adapter. Much cleaner look. So we went to remove the seat. I used a succession of drill bits, using a "numbered set" which are closer together than standard drill bit sizes. First time I'd used this numbered set in a long time. after about 10 drill thrus, the seat hooked up on the drill bit and spun right out.



We did a bunch of other details. Checking some parts i see that I have 4 right side exhaust clamps, instead of 2 left and 2 right. I bot these years ago when I learned my pipe required the old style install of spigots and star clamps. So either I bot 4 rights from eBay, or I bot 2 full sets and accidentally sold 4 lefts to some unsuspecting soul. I have no other clamps anywhere, looked thru every box. So I'll be looking for 2 lefts, however i can get them.

Should get the brake parts Monday. Hope to get the plumbing and bleeding done before next Sunday. And hope the pucks will retract with no further problems. The VF500 MC i'm using does not have an obvious return hole like the OEM MC does, so i don't know how to clear it if that's the problem.

[Tintop]

I've got a VF500 front end packed away (not sure which box though ).  I'll see if I can dig out the master, and have a look.  If these have an issue with blocked returns from sitting, I'll need to know the fix too.   Won't be able to get to it until Thursday though, out of town until then.

[MCRider]

I've got a VF500 front end packed away (not sure which box though ).  I'll see if I can dig out the master, and have a look.  If these have an issue with blocked returns from sitting, I'll need to know the fix too.   Won't be able to get to it until Thursday though, out of town until then.

That would be great to get another set of eyes on it. My first MC came from a junkyard and was in amazingly poor condition. It had probably been dry about 20 years and full of debris. I sodablasted it inside and out which really seemed to do the deal, as far as a thourough cleaning. Then i installed a rebuild kit and put it on the bike. The one i just got was also from salvage but from a bike which recently functioned properly according to the seller, and still had clean fluid in it. Both MCs seemed to perfrm the same.  I'm hoping my problem was the mis-alignment of one of the calipers.

I got all my remaining brakeline parts today and hope to do the replumbing tomorrow and then bleed it and see in the next few days.

I love the MC. The profile, look and feel is just what i wanted, with the brakeline coming out the front really helps with a narrow low bar.

[mystic_1]

Well?  So have you finished processing that cat yet?

mystic_1

[Tintop]

Well?  So have you finished processing that cat yet?

mystic_1

 

[phaedrus314]

LOL, new guy here but I've been using this ID on various forums for almost 15 years now.  It's just a habit, I'd almost forgotten where it started...

[MCRider]

LOL, new guy here but I've been using this ID on various forums for almost 15 years now.  It's just a habit, I'd almost forgotten where it started...

I've got a FADRUS License plate from 1995. had the reservation since 1990. My bike is my "alter ego".

I saw some of your posts earlier, was wondering if we'd cross paths.   

[MCRider]

Well?  So have you finished processing that cat yet?

mystic_1

Yup, copied, filed, original in today's FedEx.   

[Tintop]

Found the box with the MC & calipers.  Turns out its off a CBX 500, not sure if that makes a difference.  I did open it up, and there is a little steel cover beside the main hole (were I would expect the return).  I will take a picture on Saturday.  It had a small amount of fluid, and I could hear air, on the return stroke.   On this one it looks like the steel cover is there to prevent aeration.  Also noticed that there are air vents in the cast cap (each end @ side).  If partially plugged would that not restrict retraction of the MC diaphragm (& fluid return?).

Oh, and glad to hear the cat has been processed.  'Out' basket now?

[MCRider]

Found the box with the MC & calipers.  Turns out its off a CBX 500, not sure if that makes a difference.  I did open it up, and there is a little steel cover beside the main hole (were I would expect the return).  I will take a picture on Saturday.  It had a small amount of fluid, and I could hear air, on the return stroke.   On this one it looks like the steel cover is there to prevent aeration.  Also noticed that there are air vents in the cast cap (each end @ side).  If partially plugged would that not restrict retraction of the MC diaphragm (& fluid return?).

Oh, and glad to hear the cat has been processed.  'Out' basket now?

Thanks TinTop! No need for the picture. See my next post.

[MCRider]

Got all the new brake lines and fitting installed. Really looks sharp! The pucks refusing to retract may have been natures way of telling me to ashcan those 30+ year old brake lines and pop for some new ones.

So I got to the master cylinder. AS you can see there is one hole visible, and the little sheet metal cover. Tiintop found this in his CX500 MC as well.

So I started poking around at it, pulling and prying and it went "ping" and popped off. It had little tabs that positioned it in the visible hole chamber.

The cover pushed back into position easily.
So that was covering the second return hole. It is really teeny tiny.  It was bubbling and spitting at me so I think it is clear. next is to bleed it and see if straightening out the tilted caliper was the problem.

[Tintop]

Well now I know mine is good.   Couple of interesting differences though.  Mine has an eight cast in the corner, and a 'waffle' area on the curved inner surface.  It was obviously added to the earlier mold (plug that held it visable), and then a new mold was made.  The front end was from an 83.

[MCRider]

Well now I know mine is good.   Couple of interesting differences though.  Mine has an eight cast in the corner, and a 'waffle' area on the curved inner surface.  It was obviously added to the earlier mold (plug that held it visable), and then a new mold was made.  The front end was from an 83.

The MC I bot from eBay has that "waffle" surface too, very strange. I'll get a picture of it for the fans. Don't know about the "8".

[Tintop]

The '8' is probably a mold #.  It would be interesting to know when the waffle was added.  What year is the one you have with out the waffle?

[MCRider]

The '8' is probably a mold #.  It would be interesting to know when the waffle was added.  What year is the one you have with out the waffle?

I don't know the years, barely discovered the model. Right now we assume they are both VF500s, of different years. The ebay seller didn't disclose and I didn't ask.

[Tintop]

Well at least the MC is off the list of possible issues.  It could very well have been one of the old lines collapsing inside the SS braid, and the tilted caliper wouldn't have helped.