Topic: Phaedrus: CB750 RestoMod - Update: 09/23/21 w/ new video

[Terry in Australia]

Sorry that the FJR is a write-off Ron, but glad that you're being compensated, did the insurance cover your riding gear too?

If you haven't done this already, get a sheet of glass and using a light coat of spray adhesive, glue some medium emery paper to it, wet it with a light spray of kerosene, and rub your alternator cover in a "figure of 8" pattern, and that will flatten out the gasket sealing surface pretty quick.

Dumb question but I'll ask it anyway, do the three screws that secure the stator to the alternator cover have copper washers behind them? I've had leaks at these screws before, and also at the rubber grommet that the alternator wires pass thru. I use a little gasket sealant around the three screw heads, and around the grommet. Cheers, Terry.

[MCRider]

Thanks Terry. I'm terrible about selling bikes when I should. This may have been nature's way of telling me it was time to move on. There have been some later FJRs (which are much better than my 03 in many ways) that have sold for not much more than i got for the wreck. Also, if i let it cool off, i may go another direction altogether. I wasn't putting enough miles on it to justify having a big bike.

The bike wreck covered my helmet, which was new, this being its first outing. My homeowner's insurance would cover the rest, but there is a $500 deductible, so no coverage. The pants show no damage and the jacket has a hole in the sleeve which is a $50 repair at most. Don't ask me why the helmet was covered under the bike policy.

I'll likely try something like that on the dyno cover, good tiip. Yes I've got the copper washers in place. And the grommet is from a low mileage stator i got off eBay. Wiring is like brand new, supple and fresh. I'll putadab on the grommet.

Leak is pretty sure dead center bottom.

[Doctor_D]

For the forward-most of the bottom screws, I could not get it to stop leaking for the life of me. I lapped the cover, tried another gasket, etc.

Turns out that I'd forgotten the 8x20 dowel.

[MCRider]

For the forward-most of the bottom screws, I could not get it to stop leaking for the life of me. I lapped the cover, tried another gasket, etc.

Turns out that I'd forgotten the 8x20 dowel.

Thanks, its nice to know others struggle too, misery loves company and all that.

Unfortunately, my dowel is in place. However, that brings up the issue, it may be too long or not seating. I'll check.

[Doctor_D]

I put some Permatex thread sealer on the bottom screws (that go all the way through the case) as well.  Insurance more than anything.

Bikes as beautiful as ours shouldn't leak. 

[MCRider]

I put some Permatex thread sealer on the bottom screws (that go all the way through the case) as well.  Insurance more than anything.

Bikes as beautiful as ours shouldn't leak. 

Thanks, I'll do that too. Agree, it shouldn't leak anywhere.

Moving on, as posted several slots back, Joe finished my new golder jewels and we got them Thursday last. Swapped them out with the first yellow gold ones.

Yel Gold left, dark gold installed.


Yellow Gold sold quickly, to grace another CB. The yellow is more stunning, but the darker gold matches better.

Seems my bike is wet sumping. I pulled the pan plug and ALL the oil came out. I never checked it at the tank, as I've changed it a few times and each time I put 3.5 qts in so no need to check it. So I don't know if it was wet sumping while running, or sitting or what. And don't know enough to know if this could be contributing to my smoking problem.

Front tire wasn't holding air either, so we pulled it, which isn't hard but requires removal of both brake calipers and each bolt has to be turned by hand, no room for wrench,  to replace the tube. But stopped short. Now I pulled the valve to deflate it and then for grins reflated it and after 3 days its still holding air. So maybe the valve wasn't seated from the last time I pulled it. Anyway another day holding full pressure I'm going to call it OK and remount it.

Next step is to pull the oil pump and check the stopper valve. It was a new to me pump from eBay. Obviously low mileage, but i didn't check beyond looking at the rotors. So I suppose the stopper valve could be hardened or something. I know another forum member was wet sumping and it was the return line to the tank was kinked.

Emotional week. They came and hauled off my FJR, totaled. Won't replace it soon. No more distractions from finishing the CB.

[FrankenFrankenstuff]

great eye man.

[MCRider]

great eye man.

Thanks!
The metalflake jewels, along with the sidecovers, are creations of Joe (frankenfrankenstuff).

Simply the best.   

[MCRider]

I felt the need to watch the debates. But usually I can't stand listening to politicians, even those i support. But since there's TV in the shop, 2 birds..

The front wheel is still holding air. Crazy, it deflated on me twice. But its all new parts, rim strip, tape, tube. I can only hope its the valve. I removed it, cleaned it, Q tipped the stem, reassembled with 50psi. I'll check again tomorrow.

I pulled the oil pump, no mean feat as the pipe has to come off. To my amazement the filter screen was covered with a filmy substance, that when rollled up looks like fabric, very fine. WTF?

This stuff was smeared across the screen fairly uniformly, till I balled it up.

Getting the pump off, I see that the stopper valve is hanging wide open. Not knowing that this wasn't the natural state of things, I don't know if it was this way before or not.  I've looked at some spare pumps and sure enough the stopper should be closing off this port completely.



Sure would be nice if this was the reason for my smoking. I'll completely disassemble the pump now as that filmy fabric stuff may be in it. Lord knows what that is, debris from the oil tank? Can't imagine what.

At least there is an obvious problem. Fix it and reassemble. Try again.

[MCRider]

The goop on the screen may be clutch fibers. What type of plates do have? Are they kevlar or so other non-standard material?

Ah, could be. Its the clutch from Phaedrus I, which worked fine when i parked it in 1995. A Barnett, or Action4 or RC Eng. equivalent i think. Cleaned them in solvent tank, oiled and reassembled. Most likely thing though, assuming there isn't a shop rag in the oil tank.

Maybe i should get a new one on order?

[Terry in Australia]

Maybe i should get a new one on order?

Clutch or oil tank? Ha ha, I know how anal you were with the build Ron, so the film thing is interesting to me, it wouldn't be residue from case or thread sealing compound would it? It's amazing what you find in oil tanks, when I restored my blue K2 a couple of years ago, I found a handfull of what looked suspiciously like 'Roo poo.

I'd bought the tank years earlier and hung it with some other parts in my garage so I don't remember who I bought it from, but from memory it came with the remains of a bike that had some serious engine damage due to oil starvation. It's a pity I can't remember who I bought it from, I might have been able to tell him what probably caused his bike to expire. Cheers, Terry.

[MCRider]

Maybe i should get a new one on order?

Clutch or oil tank? Ha ha, I know how anal you were with the build Ron, so the film thing is interesting to me, it wouldn't be residue from case or thread sealing compound would it? It's amazing what you find in oil tanks, when I restored my blue K2 a couple of years ago, I found a handfull of what looked suspiciously like 'Roo poo.

I'd bought the tank years earlier and hung it with some other parts in my garage so I don't remember who I bought it from, but from memory it came with the remains of a bike that had some serious engine damage due to oil starvation. It's a pity I can't remember who I bought it from, I might have been able to tell him what probably caused his bike to expire. Cheers, Terry.

Clutch. I was just joking about the oil tank. I had the tank glass beaded in prep for powder coating and really cleaned it thoroughly before oiling it up. I just used non-hardening Gasgacinch, and only sparingly, so while not eliminated, its less likely.

You know anal only goes so far. In the paraphrased words of our illustrious Donald Rumsfeld "Reports that say that something hasn't happened are always interesting to me, because as we know, there are known knowns; there are things we know we know. We also know there are known unknowns; that is to say we know there are some things we do not know. But there are also unknown unknowns -- the ones we don't know we don't know. And if one looks throughout the history of our country and other free countries, it is the latter category that tend to be the difficult ones." ... "And each year, we discover a few more of those unknown unknowns. It sounds like a riddle. It isn't a riddle. It is a very serious, important matter."

This is really my first go around with oil pumps and learning the whole oiling system.  I'd just assumed the low milieage pump I got from eBay was OK. I didn't know to even look at the stopper valve. So there is some learning going on here.

As to the film, I think the clutch plates make the most sense. But it does seem like a finely shredded shop rag. They are decades and 10s of thou miles old. I'll get some new ones ASAP. Pulling the oil pump again is not what i want to do. And I'd have to if I try to run those old plates more,even though they seem to be fine otherwise. Can't trust them.

[MCRider]

I'm ordering an APE extra disc clutch today. Cheaper than stock.

Also, FYI: I drained the sump overnight. It emptied the tank as the stopper valve is not working. Then I pulled the pan and it held a fair amount. Then I pulled the pump and got another cup or so.

So a drain and refill will not take as much oil as the manual may say it might, as a lot is retained. I think its trial and error. Won't go wrong with 3 qts, then run, then check and top up.

[Terry in Australia]

Sounds like a plan Ron, and I hope you didn't quote Rumsfeld from memory, if you did, your memory craps all over mine! I wonder if those fibres are responsible for blocking your stopper valve open? Interesting.

[MCRider]

Sounds like a plan Ron, and I hope you didn't quote Rumsfeld from memory, if you did, your memory craps all over mine! I wonder if those fibres are responsible for blocking your stopper valve open? Interesting.

Well, I remember the basic concept from memory. I was channel surfing one day in 2002 and just happened to hit the press meeting where he said that, and it struck me as being so true. He pulled it from another source, it wasn't his originally. He just said it better. He got a lot of flack from the press for it. I went to Wickipedia for the full quote.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/There_are_known_knowns

"Its the unknown unknowns that'll get ya." How can that not be true?

"'Unk-Unk' as an abbreviation used at Lockheed for 'unknown unknown'.[7] An earlier use of the term in a military context comes from a 1984 paper about warfare:
 
“To those things Clausewitz wrote about uncertainty and chance, I would add a few comments on unknown unknowns – those things that a commander doesn't even know he doesn't know. Participants in a war game would describe an unknown unknown as unfair, beyond the ground rules of the game. But real war does not follow ground rules, and I would urge that games be "unfair" by introducing unknown unknowns.[8]"

Yes I was wondering the same thing about the fibres and the stopper valve. We'll soon know. IF so, once again I shot myself in the foot by cheaping out and trying to reuse some old parts. Had i done the rebuild in 1996, a year after i parked it, maybe. But 17 years later? I tell everyone else time takes its toll as much as use does. Should take my own advice.

[Terry in Australia]

Ha ha, don't beat yourself up Ron, I can only remember two entirely successful "first time out" rebuilds out of all the CB750 engines I've built. My F2 engine came apart twice before I was happy with it, and my K1 engine (although it's the fastest CB750 I've ever owned) was never "perfect", and will come apart again shortly so I can fix all those corners I cut the first time out.

No biggie, as frustrating as it can be, every time I get the spanners out, I learn something new about these amazing engines. I love those quotes Ron, after 35 years in the military I've heard a lot of terms and expressions that seem to contradict themselves, but actually make a lot of sense. Cheers, Terry.

[MCRider]

Ha ha, don't beat yourself up Ron, I can only remember two entirely successful "first time out" rebuilds out of all the CB750 engines I've built. My F2 engine came apart twice before I was happy with it, and my K1 engine (although it's the fastest CB750 I've ever owned) was never "perfect", and will come apart again shortly so I can fix all those corners I cut the first time out.

No biggie, as frustrating as it can be, every time I get the spanners out, I learn something new about these amazing engines. I love those quotes Ron, after 35 years in the military I've heard a lot of terms and expressions that seem to contradict themselves, but actually make a lot of sense. Cheers, Terry.

Thanks for that! I'll keep plugging along. Without the FJR, this becomes my "big bike" and i gotta get it running.

I'm a pro-military civilian. Lots of respect for military guys and realize they come in all stripes (opinions) too. Rumsfeld was controversial, but in this instance, I think profound.

[Terry in Australia]

Ha ha, well he delivered it a hell of a lot better than George W with his "Fool me once, shame on you" speech!

President Bush -- Fool me Once

[brandEn]

Hey Ron, I just read the post about the film on your oil pump screen. I pulled my pump not long ago with only 3000 miles on it since I rebuilt the engine including a brand new clutch with OEM plates. I had the exact same stuff as you described on my oil pump screen. I pulled the screen cleaned her up and pressed on. Makes me wonder though...

[MCRider]

Ha ha, well he delivered it a hell of a lot better than George W with his "Fool me once, shame on you" speech!

Oooo that's painful to watch.   

[MCRider]

Hey Ron, I just read the post about the film on your oil pump screen. I pulled my pump not long ago with only 3000 miles on it since I rebuilt the engine including a brand new clutch with OEM plates. I had the exact same stuff as you described on my oil pump screen. I pulled the screen cleaned her up and pressed on. Makes me wonder though...

And you had new plates?!  Really weird stuff.

[MCRider]

So we've decided the front tire deflating was an unsettled air valve. I've pumped it to 50psi first of the week. Checked it every day since and allowing for losses from the air gauge, it didn't lose any more. So we reinstalled the wheel. Getting pretty good at pulling and reinstalling the brakes.

Cleaned and disassembled the oil pump. My stopper valve was completely locked open. Blowing open the holder plate with the air gun, the piston would not move. I had to push REALLY hard to get it to budge. It pushed forward to full close, which leaves the predicament of getting it back out again. Finally arrived at using the duckbill long nose pliars. Insert, expand, and with four hands wiggled the piston free.


Ths piston had some black grit on it. Unidentifiable. This brushed off easily, ran a rag thru the cylinder and the piston fit in and moved easily. WTF?

The rubber piston appears good. The spring measures shorter than the OEM measurement. new springs are NLA, so I'm thinking to just stretch the existing spring to build in a littel pre-load. Thoughts? The piston now slides back and forth with gravity, so should be good to go.

Anyway, there is no sign of the fibrous crap found on the pump filter screen. We broke apart the pump to look at the pump pistons. They were completely clear of debris (or scratches, that most pumps have ).

Think I'll pull the pressure relief piston too just to say i did and look for fibres.

Looking forward to the VP debate and another night in the shop!   

Swapped in some really cool chrome button license plate bolts. A litttle bling every day...   

[Terry in Australia]

Looking good Ron, well done! I'm not sure that stretching the spring is gonna do much, if it'll stretch out, it'll sag just as quickly, unless you re-tension it with heat and quenching etc, but that seems too hard for me, why not just take the spring to an engineering supply and see if they don't have a replacement?

I did some work on Tom's K2 over the Easter weekend (he had a badly leaking output shaft seal) and his bike ran fine with no leaks after I fixed it. He left it all winter, and lo and behold, when he checked the oil in the tank a month ago, it was empty!

I guessed that it was a problem with the stopper valve in his oil pump, even though I haven't seen that before myself. I told him to strip, clean and rebuild the oil pump (he wanted to do some work on it himself) and I haven't heard back from him yet, but after reading your posts and looking at your pics, I feel a lot more confidant that I know what I'm talking about now! Cheers, Terry.    

[MCRider]

Looking good Ron, well done! I'm not sure that stretching the spring is gonna do much, if it'll stretch out, it'll sag just as quickly, unless you re-tension it with heat and quenching etc, but that seems too hard for me, why not just take the spring to an engineering supply and see if they don't have a replacement?

I did some work on Tom's K2 over the Easter weekend (he had a badly leaking output shaft seal) and his bike ran fine with no leaks after I fixed it. He left it all winter, and lo and behold, when he checked the oil in the tank a month ago, it was empty!

I guessed that it was a problem with the stopper valve in his oil pump, even though I haven't seen that before myself. I told him to strip, clean and rebuild the oil pump (he wanted to do some work on it himself) and I haven't heard back from him yet, but after reading your posts and looking at your pics, I feel a lot more confidant that I know what I'm talking about now! Cheers, Terry.    

I don't remember "Phaedrus I" ever bleeding out its oil tank. But I'd read about it here several times. Lucky I resisted the urge to top off the tank, as the urge was there. But I knew I'd just filled the system and I couldn't have blown out that much oil as little as its run. It will be interesting to see if this fix will affect the smoking or alt cover leaking. Don't really expect so, but you never know. There was 3.5 qts in the cranckcase.

It would be curious to know if this pump had the stopper jammed open when i installed it or did it happen after i started it? I didn't know at the time to look. We'll never know now. Both of my used pumps have the valve properly closed. But the movement of the piston/valve is very difficult, notchy with high resistance, so this is a potential problem on any used (all) pumps. Evidently NOS aren't immune either re: a post in another thread where a guy had a NOS pump, and his tank wouldn't stay full either.

[Old Scrambler]

MC.....Maybe you would consider 'replacing' your sagged pump-spring from one of your other unts.

Too much bling for me.....but then I don't care for FJRs either. Phaedrus II will get you through the winter.