Author Topic: Phaedrus: CB750 RestoMod - Update: 09/28/20 w/ new video  (Read 525498 times)

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Offline MRieck

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Re: Phaedrus: CB750 RestoMod - Update: 9/19/19 w/new pics- DYNO run
« Reply #4550 on: February 04, 2020, 03:02:21 pm »
After reinstalling the cam and rockers, we took it apart again for various reasons and pulled the threads out of at least 2 maybe 5 holes. So we signed up for helicoil 101. Any comments?
It happens Ron....to you, to me and many others. I have put many Helicoils in heads with no problems. There are some tricks. Finish tapping with a bottoming STI tap after using the tapered tap to avoid pinching the insert. I use some cutting fluid on the tapered tap. I also put a small amount of hi temp threadlocking compound on the inserts.
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Offline MCRider

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Re: Phaedrus: CB750 RestoMod - Update: 9/19/19 w/new pics- DYNO run
« Reply #4551 on: February 09, 2020, 06:44:52 am »
After reinstalling the cam and rockers, we took it apart again for various reasons and pulled the threads out of at least 2 maybe 5 holes. So we signed up for helicoil 101. Any comments?
It happens Ron....to you, to me and many others. I have put many Helicoils in heads with no problems. There are some tricks. Finish tapping with a bottoming STI tap after using the tapered tap to avoid pinching the insert. I use some cutting fluid on the tapered tap. I also put a small amount of hi temp threadlocking compound on the inserts.

Thx Mike and for the PM. Gonna experiment this AM on an old head... if I still have it.  :P
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1988 NT650 HawkGT;  1978 CB400 Hawk;  1975 CB750F -Free Bird; 1968 CB77 Super Hawk -Ticker;  Phaedrus 1972 CB750K2- Build Thread
"Sometimes the light's all shining on me, other times I can barely see, lately it appears to me, what a long, strange trip its been."

Offline MCRider

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Re: Phaedrus: CB750 RestoMod - Update: 9/19/19 w/new pics- DYNO run
« Reply #4552 on: February 09, 2020, 01:12:37 pm »
Had a nice morning in the shop today. We (Me, Bruce, and Ed Spengeman showed up, long time no see) were going to practice setting some helicoils. Remember we stripped 2 holes on the notorious cam bearing block hold down to the head holes.  But we realized that CBJoe took the helicoil kit home with him last week and called in today that he needed some home time after a rough week. So we decided to try an old farkle for stripped threads. I know I heard of this 25+ years ago, but can't swear that I ever did it. But I think I did, but used a 1/4-20 bolt. It worked, but I realized that one should really use a 1/4-28. For what you say? Fast forward 20+ years to today.

A 1/4-28 of the appropriate length, is almost a match for a 6mm x 1 bolt. It is slightly larger diameter, but still fits in the holes, and slightly coarser thread pitch. So since the 6mm threads are already removed, came out with the bolt, one doesn't need to drill anymore. Just take a 1/4-28 tap and make new threads in the old hole. Worked like a champ! (Let's hope).  The hole in question was the front main cam block holder downer. Was so easy we went ahead and did the back one as well. Both tightened down to 100 in/lbs.

We still have one to  do. Its the right rear cam bearing cap bolt. It has the dowel in it as well. The 1/4-28 fits through the dowel OK. But the head on the bolt is an 11mm (7/16 actually) and there isn't enough room to drop a socket on it. Maybe an open end will work. Or we'll use a helicoil.
« Last Edit: February 09, 2020, 01:15:02 pm by MCRider »
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1988 NT650 HawkGT;  1978 CB400 Hawk;  1975 CB750F -Free Bird; 1968 CB77 Super Hawk -Ticker;  Phaedrus 1972 CB750K2- Build Thread
"Sometimes the light's all shining on me, other times I can barely see, lately it appears to me, what a long, strange trip its been."

Offline Terry in Australia

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Re: Phaedrus: CB750 RestoMod - Update: 02/09/20 w/o new pics
« Reply #4553 on: February 13, 2020, 01:55:05 pm »
Ckuld you use an "allen bolf" Ron? The head won't be any bigger than tbe stock nut, and can be torqued properly with an adapter. ;D
I was feeling sorry for myself because I couldn't afford new bike boots, until I met a man with no legs.

So I said, "Hey mate, you haven't got any bike boots you don't need, do you?"

Offline MCRider

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Re: Phaedrus: CB750 RestoMod - Update: 02/09/20 w/o new pics
« Reply #4554 on: February 13, 2020, 02:37:16 pm »
Ckuld you use an "allen bolf" Ron? The head won't be any bigger than tbe stock nut, and can be torqued properly with an adapter. ;D

Genious! That could work fine.   :D
Ride Safe:
Ron
1988 NT650 HawkGT;  1978 CB400 Hawk;  1975 CB750F -Free Bird; 1968 CB77 Super Hawk -Ticker;  Phaedrus 1972 CB750K2- Build Thread
"Sometimes the light's all shining on me, other times I can barely see, lately it appears to me, what a long, strange trip its been."

Offline scottly

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Re: Phaedrus: CB750 RestoMod - Update: 02/09/20 w/o new pics
« Reply #4555 on: February 13, 2020, 07:14:50 pm »
Hey Ron, I did the 1/4-28 trick on one or two cam tower bolts the last time I had the top end off my motor in 1979, and it seems to have held up fine. ;D
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Offline 754

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Re: Phaedrus: CB750 RestoMod - Update: 02/09/20 w/o new pics
« Reply #4556 on: February 13, 2020, 10:09:23 pm »
Just turn or grind down a 7/16 or 11mm socket, it's only going to about 8 ft lbs..
Maker of the WELDLESS 750 Frame Kit
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73 836cc.. Green, had it for 3 decades!!
Lost quite a few CB 750's along the way

Offline MRieck

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Re: Phaedrus: CB750 RestoMod - Update: 02/09/20 w/o new pics
« Reply #4557 on: February 15, 2020, 01:53:59 pm »
 Are you using a grade 8 fastener Ron? I have replace the stock tower bolts with maximum length 12.9 grade Allen heads. That is done after installing 12mm long 6mm Helicoils....pretty strong after that treatment.
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Offline MCRider

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Re: Phaedrus: CB750 RestoMod - Update: 02/09/20 w/o new pics
« Reply #4558 on: February 16, 2020, 09:05:24 am »
Are you using a grade 8 fastener Ron? I have replace the stock tower bolts with maximum length 12.9 grade Allen heads. That is done after installing 12mm long 6mm Helicoils....pretty strong after that treatment.

Geez, throw me a curve ball.  ;) No, the bolts we used and were going to finish with are Grade 5 mush.
We decided to go 1/4-28, but use Grade 8+ Allen heads. We ordered up a set of 6mm helicoils too, just in case we decide to go that way.

So we got those on order, and called it a day.
« Last Edit: February 16, 2020, 10:53:11 am by MCRider »
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1988 NT650 HawkGT;  1978 CB400 Hawk;  1975 CB750F -Free Bird; 1968 CB77 Super Hawk -Ticker;  Phaedrus 1972 CB750K2- Build Thread
"Sometimes the light's all shining on me, other times I can barely see, lately it appears to me, what a long, strange trip its been."

Offline Don R

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Re: Phaedrus: CB750 RestoMod - Update: 02/09/20 w/o new pics
« Reply #4559 on: February 16, 2020, 10:01:01 am »
 I have a head and cylinder that were held together by 5/16" allen bolts under the cam pucks. The cam hold downs are also 1/4" fine. Someone in it's past didn't own a torque wrench. I haven't decided whether to helcoil or timesert them. Even though it seriously annoys me, it's apparently not hurting anything.
 Once I passed up a sandcast head, it was ported for a mini sprint and every thread had been heli coiled. What was I thinking?
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Offline MCRider

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Re: Phaedrus: CB750 RestoMod - Update: 02/09/20 w/o new pics
« Reply #4560 on: February 16, 2020, 10:54:50 am »
I have a head and cylinder that were held together by 5/16" allen bolts under the cam pucks. The cam hold downs are also 1/4" fine. Someone in it's past didn't own a torque wrench. I haven't decided whether to helcoil or timesert them. Even though it seriously annoys me, it's apparently not hurting anything.
 Once I passed up a sandcast head, it was ported for a mini sprint and every thread had been heli coiled. What was I thinking?

Good story! Key is "apparently not hurting anything". Doesn't leak oil? 
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1988 NT650 HawkGT;  1978 CB400 Hawk;  1975 CB750F -Free Bird; 1968 CB77 Super Hawk -Ticker;  Phaedrus 1972 CB750K2- Build Thread
"Sometimes the light's all shining on me, other times I can barely see, lately it appears to me, what a long, strange trip its been."

Offline MCRider

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Re: Phaedrus: CB750 RestoMod - Update: 02/23/20 w/o new pics
« Reply #4561 on: February 23, 2020, 12:04:03 pm »
Had a good session in the Busted Knuckle Garage. Me, Bruce, and CBJoe. HeliCoils 101. CBJoe procured a serving of everything we would need, an install kit, some spare taps, some 1/4-28 Allen head bolts of the Grade 8  etc. CBJoe has been instrumental in seeing that this project doesn't get stalled out.

I had an old head that has a real story behind it, too much for now. Has virtually every hole repaired with helicoils or KeenSerts. KeenSerts are really beefy but need some room for drilling the prep hole. So they were just used on the 4 hold down bolts. The bearing cap hold down holes had been rudely repaired with helicoils but the coil stood proud of the surface. Or they weren't installed cleanly. So we ripped them out and did some real clean installs, for practice. Joe had never done one and my experience is nearly 30 years ago.

With some positive vibes, Joe took to Phaedrus's head. Drilled the holes necessary, coiled them with the longer 12 mm coils, (I held the vacuum hose), and they look great and strong. We measured the depth to put the coil in the hole that takes the locating dowel. It seems to set right on top of the coil, nice and perty.

He wanted to go ahead and refix the 2 we did last week with the 1/4-28s. And I sympathize. But its all just a test bed now, so I vetoed the refix idea in favor of keeping the 1/4-28s. So if it ever gets sold, we'll need to tell the buyer ahead, the fixed holes on the right are 6mm x 1, and on the left 1/4-28s

Cleaned up and went home, literally and figuratively.  Next week we should get the cam back in.
Ride Safe:
Ron
1988 NT650 HawkGT;  1978 CB400 Hawk;  1975 CB750F -Free Bird; 1968 CB77 Super Hawk -Ticker;  Phaedrus 1972 CB750K2- Build Thread
"Sometimes the light's all shining on me, other times I can barely see, lately it appears to me, what a long, strange trip its been."

Offline Tintop

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Re: Phaedrus: CB750 RestoMod - Update: 02/23/20 w/o new pics
« Reply #4562 on: February 23, 2020, 04:26:02 pm »
Glad to hear things keep moving long.  Always pick up a tidbit, or your posts pull another dusty file card from the old brain. ;)
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Offline 754

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Re: Phaedrus: CB750 RestoMod - Update: 02/23/20 w/o new pics
« Reply #4563 on: February 24, 2020, 08:28:45 am »
I would not rip out helicoils. Get a good needle file, file a notch in the coil. Now put a triangular file or scraper in the hole and catch the notch.  Now turn it the  direction it needs to go. The helicoil gets a bit smaller and should wind right out..
Maker of the WELDLESS 750 Frame Kit
dodogas99@gmail.com
Kelowna B.C.       Canada

My next bike will be a ..ANFOB.....

It's All part of the ADVENTURE...

73 836cc.. Green, had it for 3 decades!!
Lost quite a few CB 750's along the way

Offline MCRider

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Re: Phaedrus: CB750 RestoMod - Update: 02/23/20 w/o new pics
« Reply #4564 on: February 24, 2020, 09:51:13 am »
I would not rip out helicoils. Get a good needle file, file a notch in the coil. Now put a triangular file or scraper in the hole and catch the notch.  Now turn it the  direction it needs to go. The helicoil gets a bit smaller and should wind right out..

Thanks. Yeah I went medieval on it. I'll be more polite next time.   ;D
« Last Edit: May 16, 2020, 01:48:13 pm by MCRider »
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1988 NT650 HawkGT;  1978 CB400 Hawk;  1975 CB750F -Free Bird; 1968 CB77 Super Hawk -Ticker;  Phaedrus 1972 CB750K2- Build Thread
"Sometimes the light's all shining on me, other times I can barely see, lately it appears to me, what a long, strange trip its been."

Offline MCRider

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Re: Phaedrus: CB750 RestoMod - Update: 02/23/20 w/o new pics
« Reply #4565 on: May 16, 2020, 01:50:02 pm »
At long last, reviving from covid19 lockdown. Soul searching, new to you pics. (Oops back in a few hours)
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Ron
1988 NT650 HawkGT;  1978 CB400 Hawk;  1975 CB750F -Free Bird; 1968 CB77 Super Hawk -Ticker;  Phaedrus 1972 CB750K2- Build Thread
"Sometimes the light's all shining on me, other times I can barely see, lately it appears to me, what a long, strange trip its been."

Offline MCRider

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Re: Phaedrus: CB750 RestoMod - Update: 02/23/20 w/o new pics
« Reply #4566 on: May 17, 2020, 01:31:37 pm »
Anyone who has been following this thread may realize that it has morphed into more than a typical 2-3 year project thread. My sickness (peripheral neuropathy/Parkinson's) has thrown a large monkey wrench into the whole process. I started out refurbishing the bike (72 K2 nicknamed Phaedrus)  that I had bought in 1974 and ridden all over the country, drag raced it, road raced it, crashed it (totaled twice). In it's final iteration it had an 888 kit in it with carbs, head work, and more, and serviced 50,000 miles without mishap. I had to park it in 1995 as it was bleeding from every orifice and I wanted to ride. My wife learned how to ride and we were in a Sport Touring club which meant sporting rides and good camaraderie. I graduated from the replacement 88 650 HawkGT, to the worlds most powerful sport touring motorcycle (at the time) a 02 FJR1300. She was soloing on a Kawasaki ZL600 which was a 75hp mini superbike with a cruiser layout.  With the FJR in the garage, Phaedrus got neglected.

In 2008, Build Buddy Bruce (BBB) suggested we spend 2-3 hours one day per week to get Phaedrus II on the road. And so the build began. The theme for the next iteration would be, to utilize all the latest technology that would have been available in the 70s, and try and capture the 70s look. It was to be fully functional as a bike to take trips on, as it had been in its earlier life. And I wanted to satiate my desire for a truly wild paint job: Plum Crazy Purple (Mopar color) metal-flake, airbrushing, and flames.

By 2014 we had the first "final" version up and running. I had been diagnosed with PN in 2013, the same year I totaled my FJR. I walked away, but it was close. Little did I know that would be the last of my riding.  I bot a "rampfree" trailer that would lower to the ground for easy loading. We hauled it around to several shows. I won the VJMC National Rally 1st place trophy for custom motorcycles, and was really proud. At that point the thread had several hundred thousand hits averaging about 700 per week.  But the engine smoked something terrible, due to my use of parts that had sat on the shelves too  long and got rust and corrosion and well, crap.

So we embarked on a truly entertaining build for a state of the art 900cc rebuild. Time went by. You don't break any records at 2-3 hours per week. But we were having fun, and I couldn't ride it anyway.  In 2016 I was diagnosed with the Parkinson's, though I'd been struggling with the symptoms for years before that. Mostly joint stiffness, loss of muscle mass, etc. The loss of balance progressed to the point where I can't walk safely and have to use a wheelchair. Thank goodness the technology for such things is real impressive. With the help of M Rieck we finished up a motor and got it dynoed at 78hp or such. I took it to Wilmington OH back when the East Coast Timing Assoc was running LSR runs. A friend of mine with many LSRs under his belt rode it for me and turned 125 mph. Not bad, but this engine is good for another 10-15 mph. The same guy rode it at the Lucas Oil Raceway drag strip a total of 12 times. Considering he had no experience launching he did OK.

A paragraph on "friends of the build". Besides BBB, the instigator of the whole thing, there's Ed, who just called (emailed?) one day and showed up for a few of the more active years. And Pat, who the first time by on a whim, it was the day we needed help getting the engine in, and there he was! And more recently there's CBJoe. Forum member, who breathed new life into the project at a time it needed it.

Then we had about 2 years of trials and errors and ridiculous errors, mostly on me. And that catches up as much as I want to write for now.

People are continuing to hit the thread even though my weekly updates have morphed into something much less frequent. And the COVID19 lockdown has done nothing to help that. But even so, we are near 500,000 hits, making the weekly average rise to 800 per week! With that much interest I'm going to suck it up and get back to work. When COVID19 allows, however as its close proximity work, and I am a high risk individual. I'm not really keen on dying for the build.

So if you're coming to this thread for entertainment, get what you can out of it. You'll know that I'm either going to discuss something pertinent to your 750, or I'm going to invite you to my pity party.  ;)  I've got the best caregiver a man could want, but she has banned me from the shop unless I have a strong adult with me to spot my fall. Its been so long I'm afraid to go out to the shop to see what I'll find.

I'll start with some older pictures from late Feb and early March. Then we'll regroup and when its allowable, get back to work. Peace Out

« Last Edit: May 17, 2020, 02:58:29 pm by MCRider »
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1988 NT650 HawkGT;  1978 CB400 Hawk;  1975 CB750F -Free Bird; 1968 CB77 Super Hawk -Ticker;  Phaedrus 1972 CB750K2- Build Thread
"Sometimes the light's all shining on me, other times I can barely see, lately it appears to me, what a long, strange trip its been."

Offline MCRider

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Re: Phaedrus: CB750 RestoMod - Update: 02/23/20 w/o new pics
« Reply #4567 on: May 17, 2020, 03:22:11 pm »
(PhotoBucket is not working, I'm following up.)

Here's some shots of the carbs:


I don't know why PhotoBucket has decided to put that unavailable tag on it. If you click it, it will still open.

The mysterious bench sync:




« Last Edit: May 21, 2020, 06:27:07 am by MCRider »
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Ron
1988 NT650 HawkGT;  1978 CB400 Hawk;  1975 CB750F -Free Bird; 1968 CB77 Super Hawk -Ticker;  Phaedrus 1972 CB750K2- Build Thread
"Sometimes the light's all shining on me, other times I can barely see, lately it appears to me, what a long, strange trip its been."

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Re: Phaedrus: CB750 RestoMod - Update: 02/23/20 w/o new pics
« Reply #4568 on: May 17, 2020, 03:36:33 pm »
I remember now, a little. We had to helicoil some head holes.


At first I thought we would try the old 1/4-28 bolt trick. They went in pretty good after tapping the holes.


The 1/4-28 is ever so slightly bigger than the 6MM.


Unlike diamonds, threads are not forever:


Successful retrieval of bolt


Practice helicoil in spare head:

We put 6mm in rt side, 1/4-28 in left:

carbs


« Last Edit: May 18, 2020, 11:03:04 am by MCRider »
Ride Safe:
Ron
1988 NT650 HawkGT;  1978 CB400 Hawk;  1975 CB750F -Free Bird; 1968 CB77 Super Hawk -Ticker;  Phaedrus 1972 CB750K2- Build Thread
"Sometimes the light's all shining on me, other times I can barely see, lately it appears to me, what a long, strange trip its been."

Offline CBJoe

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Re: Phaedrus: CB750 RestoMod - Update: 02/23/20 w/o new pics
« Reply #4569 on: May 18, 2020, 05:21:38 am »
Hard to believe its been months since we've been able to wrench on the bike.....when things lift up again we'll need a whole day to remember what the heck we were doing when we left off  ;D

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Online Jerry Rxman Griffin aka MuthaF'er

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Re: Phaedrus: CB750 RestoMod - Update: 02/23/20 w/o new pics
« Reply #4570 on: May 18, 2020, 08:14:21 am »
Copy and paste the IMG option

As of today 3/13/2012 my original owner 75 CB750F has made it through 3 wives, er EX-wives. Free at last.  ;-)

Offline MCRider

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Re: Phaedrus: CB750 RestoMod - Update: 02/23/20 w/o new pics
« Reply #4571 on: May 21, 2020, 06:29:31 am »
I thought that's what I did.  >:( 
Ride Safe:
Ron
1988 NT650 HawkGT;  1978 CB400 Hawk;  1975 CB750F -Free Bird; 1968 CB77 Super Hawk -Ticker;  Phaedrus 1972 CB750K2- Build Thread
"Sometimes the light's all shining on me, other times I can barely see, lately it appears to me, what a long, strange trip its been."

Offline bek1966

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Re: Phaedrus: CB750 RestoMod - Update: 02/23/20 w/o new pics
« Reply #4572 on: May 21, 2020, 07:03:05 am »
Hi Ron,

I stumbled upon this thread a few days ago and have thoroughly enjoyed reading through it - all of it!  It's so much more than a bike build thread thanks to your willingness to include your life experiences.  I think the interest this thread has drawn is as much about you as it is Phaedrus.  Thanks for sharing.

Regards,
Brad
1971 CB750 K1 - Candy Gold
1971 CB500 K0 - Star Light Gold
1974 CB350 F1 - Glory Blue Black

Pleasant Prairie, Wisconsin

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Re: Phaedrus: CB750 RestoMod - Update: 02/23/20 w/o new pics
« Reply #4573 on: May 21, 2020, 09:32:29 am »
I stumbled upon this thread a few days ago and have thoroughly enjoyed reading through it - all of it! 

Brad! 183 pages. In a single sitting??   :o
1975 CB550K1 "Blue" Stockish Restomod (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=135005.0)
1975 CB550F1 frame/CB650 engine hybrid "The Hot Mess" (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,150220.0.html)
2014 MV Agusta Brutale Dragster 800
2016+ Triumph Thruxton 1200 R (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,170198.0.html)

"There are some things nobody needs in this world, and a bright-red, hunch-back, warp-speed 900cc cafe racer is one of them — but I want one anyway, and on some days I actually believe I need one.... Being shot out of a cannon will always be better than being squeezed out of a tube. That is why God made fast motorcycles, Bubba." Hunter S. Thompson, Song of the Sausage Creature, Cycle World, March 1995.  (http://www.latexnet.org/~csmith/sausage.html)

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1973 CB750K2 "Bionic Mongrel" (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=132734.0) - Sold
1977 CB750K7 "Nine Lives" Restomod (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=50490.0) - Sold
2005 RVT1000RR RC51-SP2 "El Diablo" - Sold

Offline bek1966

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Re: Phaedrus: CB750 RestoMod - Update: 02/23/20 w/o new pics
« Reply #4574 on: May 21, 2020, 10:04:09 am »
What can I say, I'm running out of projects to do around the house and it's been raining a lot here!
1971 CB750 K1 - Candy Gold
1971 CB500 K0 - Star Light Gold
1974 CB350 F1 - Glory Blue Black

Pleasant Prairie, Wisconsin

 

;