Topic: Phaedrus: CB750 RestoMod - Update: 09/23/21 w/ new video

[MCRider]

I promise I will learn how to use Photobucket. From left to right, removable frame tube unit; period lockhart oil cooler black with chrome trim, one new, the smaller crome one (also period Lockhart) was used on old Phaedrus and may leak, tweak bar, upper is built by machinist has clamps inboard and outboard of tubes. Lower one is chopper style period piece, clamps only inboard of tubes. Henry Abe period tappet covers; ZL900 Eliminator fender, 18" as I have built front wheel at 17", may be too small. Radically drilled discs from Mares cycles in chicago. Retired. He drilled them that way at my request and I may have gone overboard. They are thinned also from previous Phaedrus by 40 thou, max allowed.

[MCRider]

Looks like I scored some spigots and exhaust clamps from the "Parts Wanted" section of this site. I think I'll weld a tab on each of the Engine Guards to mount the horns and that gives me room where the original horn was to mount the oil cooler. It'll be next Sunday though before I can dry fit everything one more time. Waiting on the 3.5x17 rim and spokes for the rear. Thinking of powdercoating the rim to match the frame Gold metallic.

[Terry in Australia]

Hey that's looking good mate! Sorry I haven't been back to visit, I've been away doing Army stuff for the last 4 days, but I gotta say I'm impressed so far, as I said originally, I love all that old period stuff, I really like your discs and chrome swingarm, they look really cool.

I've got to get a swingarm chromed, but I might wait until I've done the rear disc conversion, as I'm thinking about making a box section swingarm rather than use the F2 swingarm that I was gonna use. What shocks are you using? Works? They look pretty cool too.

I'm currently doing up a Suzuki GS1000E to sell, and it's got good Koni 7610 series shocks on it. I'm gonna take them off to install on my CB750K1 (in the pic I posted earlier) they're an inch and a half shorter than the ones on my K1, so should drop it down some, and it won't matter if I raise the Suzy, because I've fitted later GS1100 forks which are an inch and a half longer coincidentally, so as long as the new owner is as tall as me, he won't have any problems with handling as it won't change anything but the height.

Who did your painting? Very impressive mate, and I like that Corbin seat too. I've also gotta say how impressed I am with how neatly laid out your shop is, mine looks like a bombs hit it, twice! Cheers, Terry.

[MCRider]

Hey that's looking good mate! Sorry I haven't been back to visit, I've been away doing Army stuff for the last 4 days, but I gotta say I'm impressed so far, as I said originally, I love all that old period stuff, I really like your discs and chrome swingarm, they look really cool.

I've got to get a swingarm chromed, but I might wait until I've done the rear disc conversion, as I'm thinking about making a box section swingarm rather than use the F2 swingarm that I was gonna use. What shocks are you using? Works? They look pretty cool too.

I'm currently doing up a Suzuki GS1000E to sell, and it's got good Koni 7610 series shocks on it. I'm gonna take them off to install on my CB750K1 (in the pic I posted earlier) they're an inch and a half shorter than the ones on my K1, so should drop it down some, and it won't matter if I raise the Suzy, because I've fitted later GS1100 forks which are an inch and a half longer coincidentally, so as long as the new owner is as tall as me, he won't have any problems with handling as it won't change anything but the height.

Who did your painting? Very impressive mate, and I like that Corbin seat too. I've also gotta say how impressed I am with how neatly laid out your shop is, mine looks like a bombs hit it, twice! Cheers, Terry.

hey there! Thanks for kind words. The chrome swingarm was on Phaedrus I (1980), and will be rechromed as it looks bad close up. The big holes in the discs may be too big, but After dragging them out of storage for that pic, they don't look as big as i remebered, and I like the whole pattern. The chrome shocks are...period S&W. They have S&W stamped in the body, very rare I think. Most stuff is Progressive as you may or may not know Progressive bought S&W way back when. Mine are the actual stock length where Progressives are 3/8' longer I think. Found them in original box at a vintage bike swap meet.

Once again I'm interested in your rear disc work. If I ever finish Phaedrus, next project is a 76 CB750F and the rear brake on that thing is HUGE, really want to downsize it.

Paint was done by a local here "BillyJay". Lots of Hot Rod and performance/show car painters in Indy, Motor Racing's Capital of the World.  The Corbin was the last mod done to Phaedrus I before I parked it in 1995. Stock seat was sacked and we needed more comfort. Corbin was still doing one-offs back then. Had to send it back twice for adjustments, they were so pxxed at me they said they would never do another one.   

The shop cleans up nice for photos, its a wreck right now. The wire shelving from Lowe's and using the same size boxes for parts (bankers boxes from Office Depot) gives the illusion of organization.    later dude.
Ron

[MCRider]

Got my 5 hours in again this week. Here's some pics:

Since the Marshall Pipe splays the 2 and 3 pipe so far apart, I can mount the oil cooler between them and slightly above the oil filter. I'd weld a bracket across the two downtubes.

The Magnum Blaster Horns have plenty of room in the area of the original horn. Its bracket will be removed and fresh bracket for the MB installed.

Sideview of period Ventura Rack from NZ. They told me the CB750 was one of their first racks and they had one left in the warehouse. No discount though. I think I'll have it shortened to get it closer to the seat.

More soon.
Ron

[MCRider]

I wanted to say thanks publicly to Eric "mrblasty" for providing me some much needed parts. Last week, I unboxed the Marshall Deeptone for the second time in X years and realized I needed the original exhaust spigots and clamps. He responded to my plea in "parts wanted" and after a vary reasonable deal was struck i had the parts in enough time for this weekend's thrash.

He also wanted me to alert the forum to his impending attempt at launching his CB750 over the Ohio River near his homeport but hoping to find a spot a little narrower. Full color postings will be forthcoming I'm sure.   

[MCRider]

More pics: The exhaust collector is not accepting the headers without a battle. This cannot be, so I am honing each with a brake hone. After looking inside I see that there are parts of a "chicken Sh-t weld that are holding things up as well. So I'm attacking them with a small but sharp chisel.

And finally for today, I've assembled the truing and balancing stand I purchased from eBay supplier "PitPosse". It is a well constructed heavy unit. I am due to receive the rear wheel and spokes next week, but the hub is still off at the polishers.

See ya next week.

[MCRider]

Got my 5 hours in (committed to 5 hours per week minimum.) But not much real headway, sometimes its that way. Kept working on getting the headers to fit into the collector without resistance. Lots of chrome on inside of collector, header pipes not exactly round. Brake hone and Valve Grinding Compound just not getting it done. Dremel Tool with grindstones next time. Suggestions?

Polishing parts that have been sitting for a long time. BMW style European touring bars just starting to degrade. 20 minutes of polish and rust remover brought them back.

Pulled the ported reworked head off shelf from many years ago. Oops very embarrased as valve springs and keepers are rusty. Even the tops of the valves are rusty and they are Stainless. So will disassemble it for clean up, valve guide seals probably hard by now anyway. Hoping the seats are OK. Should have taken more care storing it, but I didn't think it would be this long before getting back to the project.

Cylinder is OK (New sleeves and 888cc bore job) I must have oiled it down good before storage.  Forged ARIAS piston kit looking good.

I have some colored retainers in a bag with colored springs. Must be high end stuff I got from somewhere. Anyone know how to tell if they may be titanium? If aluminum I'll stick with the stock steel retainers as Phaedrus II is primarily a long distance street bike.

No sign of the rear rim and spokes, way overdue. Phone calls to be made this week.

Maybe better headway next week. Time to go back to work. 

[Terry in Australia]

Ha ha, keep going mate! Now if you've got an air compressor, ditch that Dremel toy and go buy a cheap air die grinder with a good cutting burr, and a set of "drum sanders" to finish it off, and you'll have the pipes together in 5 minutes, not 5 hours. Over here I can buy all that for under $100, and at that rate, I imagine it's probably free, in the land of the free, ha ha!

I don't know how to tell Ti parts from aluminium either sadly, PM Mike Rieck, (MRieck here) he's our resident "head man" and built a ball-tearer of a head for my bike with oversize stainless valves and Ti retainers, shims etc, so I'm guessing he knows the difference, is it usual to anodize Ti though? Mine are just plain silver, so I'm guessing that your anodized parts are probably aluminium, as Ti stuff was pretty uncommon, back in the day?

I think next time you get your 5 hours free it'd be good to snap some more pics mate, I'm drooling over indecent thoughts about all those wonderful parts and using the third (?) commandment, "Thou shalt not covet thy (distant) neighbor's wife bike parts", as a mantra, ha ha!

[MCRider]

Ha ha, keep going mate! Now if you've got an air compressor, ditch that Dremel toy and go buy a cheap air die grinder with a good cutting burr, and a set of "drum sanders" to finish it off, and you'll have the pipes together in 5 minutes, not 5 hours. Over here I can buy all that for under $100, and at that rate, I imagine it's probably free, in the land of the free, ha ha!

I don't know how to tell Ti parts from aluminium either sadly, PM Mike Rieck, (MRieck here) he's our resident "head man" and built a ball-tearer of a head for my bike with oversize stainless valves and Ti retainers, shims etc, so I'm guessing he knows the difference, is it usual to anodize Ti though? Mine are just plain silver, so I'm guessing that your anodized parts are probably aluminium, as Ti stuff was pretty uncommon, back in the day?

I think next time you get your 5 hours free it'd be good to snap some more pics mate, I'm drooling over indecent thoughts about all those wonderful parts and using the third (?) commandment, "Thou shalt not covet thy (distant) neighbor's wife bike parts", as a mantra, ha ha!

I do have a compressor and a grinder but no accessories. Whatever I do it'll have more horsepower than what I've been using. I thought I could finesse it, but I'll have to get medieval on its a--.

I'll find the box the retainers are in and ask Mr. Rieck, thanks. They are just a memory right now. Don't want to use the HD springs as this is a high mileage (I hope) street bike. I'm using a low bump cam and stock springs with shims. Worked well once before. Even though I have a reinforced cam cover, its mainly just for the "wow" factor.

I didn't spend the whole 5 hours on the pipe, but several. Other time cleaning parts, looking at things, piddling around. Not very productive.   

More pics next week, promise.

[MCRider]

Got my five hours in this week. A little more productive than last. Final positioning of horn and oil cooler brackets, headers fit collector now, brainstorming some motor mount upgrades, parts boxed up for glass beaders. Disappointment about repositioning steering damper.

Pics to follow.

[MCRider]

No nephew handy, I'm trying to do Photobucket unaided, lets see...

Side Covers match tank previously posted, purple with pin striping, looks good with emblems and i hope with Gold Frame...

http://s313.photobucket.com/albums/ll384/rondison/Phaedrus/?action=view&current=P7200006.jpg

lockhart oil Cooler mounting bosses were 5/16". I retapped them to metric. Can't stand non-metric hardware on my bike.
http://i313.photobucket.com/albums/ll384/rondison/Phaedrus/P7200007.jpg[/img]]
To mount the cooler between the frame rails, the nuts on the right side motor mounts will interfere. I'll have the welder close off those holes, grind flush and I've tapped out the frame to 10x1.25 metric hardware.
http://i313.photobucket.com/albums/ll384/rondison/Phaedrus/P7200008.jpg[/img]]
My contribution to hand hygiene. The Invisible Glove product is my favorite. The purple gloves are favored by my assistant.
http://i313.photobucket.com/albums/ll384/rondison/Phaedrus/P7200009.jpg[/img]]

A break from Phaedrus II, here's the oil tank and smaller battery box for next project, Freebird II, a kick start only 76F Cafe.
http://i313.photobucket.com/albums/ll384/rondison/Phaedrus/P7200010.jpg[/img]]
a shot of battery box and oil tank sitting in the 76F frame
http://i313.photobucket.com/albums/ll384/rondison/Phaedrus/P7200012.jpg[/img]]

Here's an underside shot of the triple tree and steering damper mount. Some have mentioned that there were 2 spots, a left and right, for mounting the damper, but I only have a right. Is there a lower tree with a left mount? I want one if so. Help?
http://i313.photobucket.com/albums/ll384/rondison/Phaedrus/P7200013.jpg[/img]]
Cooler with template...
http://i313.photobucket.com/albums/ll384/rondison/Phaedrus/P7200014.jpg[/img]]
Horns template and in position...http://i313.photobucket.com/albums/ll384/rondison/Phaedrus/P7200015.jpg[/img]]http://i313.photobucket.com/albums/ll384/rondison/Phaedrus/P7200016.jpg[/img]]
Cooler in position. Now I have a problem. I was going to mount it with the spigots on the bottom. But I've read that doing so the cooler may not fill completely. Any comments on this? Also, the cooler has an In and Out marking on the spigots. I'm using an adapter plate off of the oil filter. Which would be the in and out?
http://i313.photobucket.com/albums/ll384/rondison/Phaedrus/P7200017.jpg[/img]]
These are mystery valve springs mentioned in previous post. Its obvious from color and thickness of the wire that they are HD springs, but are the keepers aluminum or titanium? One keeper in one set has a nasty scratch in it so I'm guessing its aluminum.
http://i313.photobucket.com/albums/ll384/rondison/Phaedrus/P7200020.jpg[/img]]
And finally...me    http://i313.photobucket.com/albums/ll384/rondison/Phaedrus/P7200019.jpg[/img]]

[Ichiban 4]

Really nice pictures Ron..enjoying seeing all the work..ideas your coming up with.

Regarding your Lockhart oil cooler..being mounted with spigots up or down: I've got exactly the same unit..have seen multiple others..all mounted with spigots DOWN.  So it must not be that big of an issue with filling properly with the spigots down.

The only time I even heard that spigot position was an issue..was on another thread here..where they were using a later model oil cooler (off a 900 VF?)..which had a different tube and dimension configuration than the Lockhart units.  Also..I believe you said that you were filling the cooler from an oil filter adaptor..am I correct?  If so..because you wouldn't be tapping into the oil tank..having long runs of oil line..the filling issue would seem even less of a concern.  But maybe Terry..or Hondaman..or any of the other more savvy 750 guys here could comment on that.

In any event..I'll bet that the filling issue for that Lockhart unit is not a big deal..as they have been running them spigot down primarily..and for a long time without any reports of problems..@ least that I'm aware of.

Hey Terry..why don't you weigh-in on this a little?  I'd like to have the issue clarified a little more myself.

Thanks again Ron. Please keep the pics and narrative coming.

Al / Ichiban 4

[MCRider]

Really nice pictures Ron..enjoying seeing all the work..ideas your coming up with.

Regarding your Lockhart oil cooler..being mounted with spigots up or down: I've got exactly the same unit..have seen multiple others..all mounted with spigots DOWN.  So it must not be that big of an issue with filling properly with the spigots down.

The only time I even heard that spigot position was an issue..was on another thread here..where they were using a later model oil cooler (off a 900 VF?)..which had a different tube and dimension configuration than the Lockhart units.  Also..I believe you said that you were filling the cooler from an oil filter adaptor..am I correct?  If so..because you wouldn't be tapping into the oil tank..having long runs of oil line..the filling issue would seem even less of a concern.  But maybe Terry..or Hondaman..or any of the other more savvy 750 guys here could comment on that.

In any event..I'll bet that the filling issue for that Lockhart unit is not a big deal..as they have been running them spigot down primarily..and for a long time without any reports of problems..@ least that I'm aware of.

Hey Terry..why don't you weigh-in on this a little?  I'd like to have the issue clarified a little more myself.

Thanks again Ron. Please keep the pics and narrative coming.

Al / Ichiban 4

Thanks Ichiban:

Thinking about it, I had a Lockhart on Phaedrus I that had the spigots pointing straight down on either side. I assume if filled properly, i ran it for MANY years. But the warning label on the Lockhart in question is so positioned that the spigots must be on top to read it. Hmmm... I'll wait to see if Terry or anyone else weighs in.

The thread you refer to is the same one I read, and planted the seeds of confusion.

The warning has to do with being sure the "IN" spigot goes to the correct hose, in my case coming from the Oil Filter Adapter Plate. Any comments on that issue? It was not an issue with the prior oil cooler.

[MCRider]

I just got my 3.5 x 17" Excel rim for my "Phaedrus" project. It has "Excel" and related ID twice on both sides in Red and it doesn't appear to be a decal. It looks cool, so now I hesitate to cover it up with some other color. I'll post a picture this afternoon.

Rim (and HD SS spokes) was ordered from East Coast Wheels, but the box has a Buchanan's return address on it.  Took nearly 6 weeks. Curious. Now waiting on the hub assembly from polishers. Delay is my fault. Then I'll build the wheel.

I'll post a Pic of the Rim and new Rear and the Front I had built by Buchanan many years ago before the project got stalled. It is a 2.5 x 17 Akront with a 120/70 x 17 dummy tire mounted on it. Its a good 3 inches lower than the old 110/90x19 that was on it and a darn site lighter. (quicker steering)  I wanted to lower the bike, however it may be overkill. I have 3 inch longer tubes from Franks so I can play around with the ride height. I could put a 110/90x17 on the front to raise it as well. Gotta work today Sat, will be in the shop on Sunday, Yeah!

[MCRider]

Got my 5 hours in. First I gota admire those of you here who have started and finished a project in what seems to me record time. I keep plowing along, but 15+ hours per week is needed to see real results. Anyway... got my 3.5x17 Excel Rim this week from East Coast Wheels. But the return address on the box was Buchanans...

The red label is attractive. I had thought of powdercoating the wheels Gold but that wasn't in the original plan and I must stick to a plan or this will take forever.
For perspective, here's the front i plan to use. it was built by buchanans and has a worn out 110/80x17 tire. i don't know for a fact how this will fit betweeen dual disc calipers, but it is smaller and lighter...

Phaedrus I on left; Phaedrus II on right

Recess from Phaedrus, here's a shot of a wheel for my 650 Hawk which was widened to a 3.5x17 by Kosman Wheels. See the weld seams? I wanted wider rubber but didn't want to lose the look of stock.

My shop decorating tips from Cracker Barrel, stuff all over the walls and ceiling.

Back to Phaedrus II: I admitted to letting my built head get rusty in a previous post. Lots of humidity in the shop, no protection, really dumb. So I disassembled it today. Retainers rusty, glass bead or replace...
Hmmm can't find picture, i shall return.

[MCRider]

OK here's the rusty retainers, ugh

No other damage to head it appears. Springs wiped clean, seats pristine, Tops of valves have slight rust which is odd as they are SS, but they are coming clean with Turtle Wax Chrome Polish and rust remover, pretty benign. I'll replace the valve stem seals for drill. None on the exhaust, machinist used old style guides which don't take seals. Less friction?

Recess again

Period pipe late 70's early 80s handbuilt, Bol 'dor Replica sounds real nice...

So now I have a box for the glass beaders, a box for the polishers (rear hub and related) and a long list for the welder on the frame.

[Ichiban 4]

Hey Ron..

What's with the "moth" pic?  Is that supposed to be some subliminal hint referring to "Silence of The Lambs"..or something?

Seriously: there was another recent post on installing a later model oil cooler (believe it was off an '83 650) on a 750 SOHC 4.  Did you see it?  Seems the "spigot" orientation: i.e. whether up or down..doesn't seem that important.

Guess Terry/Australia hasn't seen your thread recently.  Would really like some experienced with oil cooler stuff..to weigh-in more on this.

Everything on your build is looking "copacetic" thus far..(wonder how many younger folks..W/O looking-up in dictionary..know what that means?)

Later,

Ichi/Al

[MCRider]

Hey Ron..

What's with the "moth" pic?  Is that supposed to be some subliminal hint referring to "Silence of The Lambs"..or something?

Seriously: there was another recent post on installing a later model oil cooler (believe it was off an '83 650) on a 750 SOHC 4.  Did you see it?  Seems the "spigot" orientation: i.e. whether up or down..doesn't seem that important.

Guess Terry/Australia hasn't seen your thread recently.  Would really like some experienced with oil cooler stuff..to weigh-in more on this.

Everything on your build is looking "copacetic" thus far..(wonder how many younger folks..W/O looking-up in dictionary..know what that means?)

Later,

Ichi/Al

Just thought it was an interesting distraction. 

Yeah I was hoping T of A would weigh in on the oil cooler question.

I knew it but had to check the spelling and came up with this...http://www.worldwidewords.org/weirdwords/ww-cop1.htm

Thanks!

[KB02]

Recess again

Holy crap. That's a huge moth. Is that inches or centimeters?

[MCRider]

Dem's inches. Wings fully stretched were 6 inches. (He didn't survive the rains last night. Must have been on his way out already).  Bigger than some of my Goldfinches at the feeder!

[Ichiban 4]

Thanks for the link to the "copacetic" definitions Ron. I learned something too..although we were using that word back in the late 50's early 60's in California..and understood it to mean mainly the later term "Groovin" or as your referenced definitions indicated as meaning "everything going well" et. al.

[You see..I kinda had 2-youthful periods in my life: one in the 50's..early 60's pre-Viet Nam; the other in the middle to late 70's after I got all that prior stuff sorted-out (well..for the most part that is)]

Anyway..your Phaedrus II project is looking good.  I admire your sense of discipline, organization..to put in your "5-hours per week" as you say.

Later,

Ichi

[MCRider]

I first remember hearing it as a boy from my Dad around 1965. He was a mechanical engineer at Detroit Diesel Allison in it hayday. testing a lot of high powered engineering thingies, engines, transmissions, etc.

[Terry in Australia]

G'Day Guys, are you missing me yet? No? Oh well..............

Now I've only ever seen those coolers mounted with the spigots on the top, so my advice would be to flip it around. For your info, your adapter feeds oil from the spigot on the ignition points side, and returns it on the alternator side.

I love what you're doing with that bike, it's a real quality build, and you should be justifiably proud of it, well done!

Having said that, locating the cooler down amongst the headers is just silly, and will probably heat your oil, rather than cool it. Kinda like mounting your cars radiator on your exhaust manifold..........

No offence meant, but I'm more a "function over form" kinda guy, so if it was me I'd ditch those horns, or mount them out of the way, you'll only use them now and then, but your cooler will be working all summer, at least, so should be sitting up there in the cool air, not mounted on a heat source, getting showered with rocks and mud.   

Apart from that, I'm a fan, keep up the good work! Cheers, Terry.

[MCRider]

G'Day Guys, are you missing me yet? No? Oh well..............

Now I've only ever seen those coolers mounted with the spigots on the top, so my advice would be to flip it around. For your info, your adapter feeds oil from the spigot on the ignition points side, and returns it on the alternator side.

I love what you're doing with that bike, it's a real quality build, and you should be justifiably proud of it, well done!

Having said that, locating the cooler down amongst the headers is just silly, and will probably heat your oil, rather than cool it. Kinda like mounting your cars radiator on your exhaust manifold..........

No offence meant, but I'm more a "function over form" kinda guy, so if it was me I'd ditch those horns, or mount them out of the way, you'll only use them now and then, but your cooler will be working all summer, at least, so should be sitting up there in the cool air, not mounted on a heat source, getting showered with rocks and mud.   

Apart from that, I'm a fan, keep up the good work! Cheers, Terry.

Several of the last posts were themed "Wheres T of A?" I was hoping you'd chime in, but not what i wanted to hear. Back to the drawing board.

Thanks for the tip on where the oil comes from and the spigots top or bottom. I will reconsider the mounting of the cooler.

One of my themes in this build, as its not a cafe, is for it to be MY version of the best 1970s era naked touring muscle touring bike. Horns, rack, 2 up seat, engine guards, comfortable handlebars, all part of the theme.

But I too like to think I'm function over form too, so, no promises, but i ought to do better with the cooler. I don't really think the heat would be any different between the headers than above them, they are really splayed wide, actually outside of the frame rails. But the debris off of the wheel with a shortened fender...Hmmmm...

But then Ducatis run their oil coolers very low, but thats on a clean track I guess.

Any way, I'll rethink it with no promises.   

BTW MRieck just blew my budget on rods, suggesting I shouldn't use what I scammed off eBay for $150 (and I tend to agree) in favor of something lighter (and more expensive).