Author Topic: Phaedrus: CB750 RestoMod - Update: 09/23/21 w/ new video  (Read 867258 times)

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Offline KB02

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Re: Restart of old project: Phaedrus II: CB750 Sport-Tourer
« Reply #75 on: August 25, 2008, 04:54:17 am »

Found a drill bit that was slightly more than the ID of the dowel, but less than the ID of the hole. Ran it in carefully with drill and the dowel began spinning almost immediately. A few tugs and it came out easily. Whew!

That's a nice trick. I had the same problem with mine. Looks like your came out a nice better for wear than mine did.  :-[
1978 CB750K Project
2000 Ducati ST2
...and a pedal bike

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My project thread Part I: K8 Project "Parts Bike"
My project thread Part II: Finishing (yeah, right) touches on Project "Parts Bike"

Offline MCRider

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Re: Restart of old project: Phaedrus II: CB750 Sport-Tourer
« Reply #76 on: August 25, 2008, 07:44:45 pm »
Got my 3 point Engine Guards today from eBay. Finish very poor, but I was figuring if I scored smoe I would rechrome them anyway. So now, I'll have tabs welded on the frame rather than using the "U" bolts they initially attached with.


The 3 points are much stronger than the 2 points I have. Why do i care? I want this bike to be a functional runner. When I was riding my CBs as touring bikes, on multi day/night trips, where fatigue cold set in, there was the well founded fear of what would happen if it tipped over, let alone if i dropped it at speed. In fact I have expereince with this as many of you do I'm sure. A tipover on the right side can render the ignition out of service. On the left side, a tipover can poke a hole in the alternator cover. Both will mean the trip is over or at least severly impacted. I had a 2 pointer fold up against the chrome ignition cover and pushed it into the points. And I've poked a hole in an alternator cover and filled it (and the bottom end) with street debris, necessitating a tear down.
Next, a new toy I bought is a triple beam balance. FYI the stock valve spring retainer is 13.3g; the APE Titanium are 9g; an aluminum one is 8g.


FYI: a well respected poster indicated to me Wiseco 836cc pistons with rings are 175g. My ARIAS 67mm (888cc) pistons with rings are 171g, so I'm happy about that.
I picked up a small job from the powdercoaters. These CB77 cases were a mess and were degreased and glassbeaded for $60, I'm happy,

These exhaust clamps were dechromed and ceramic coated black satin for $5 ea. I think they undercharged me.

I sold a used tire off my FJR and the Rear Akront off of Phaedrus I on ebay at a "Buy it now" price, so it was set too cheap.


Ride Safe:
Ron
1988 NT650 HawkGT;  1978 CB400 Hawk;  1975 CB750F -Free Bird; 1968 CB77 Super Hawk -Ticker;  Phaedrus 1972 CB750K2- Build Thread
"Sometimes the light's all shining on me, other times I can barely see, lately it appears to me, what a long, strange trip its been."

Offline mystic_1

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Re: Restart of old project: Phaedrus II: CB750 Sport-Tourer
« Reply #77 on: August 25, 2008, 08:25:58 pm »
Those clamps look great!

Have you checked the calibration on that balance?

cheers
mystic_1
"A ship in harbor is safe, but that is not what ships are built for."
- John Augustus Shedd

My build thread:  http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=68952.0

Offline MCRider

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Re: Restart of old project: Phaedrus II: CB750 Sport-Tourer
« Reply #78 on: August 26, 2008, 12:35:30 am »
Those clamps look great!

Have you checked the calibration on that balance?

cheers
mystic_1

Yes, it has a thumb wheel adjuster on it to "0" it before weighing anything. Other than that, the weights are not removable, shouldn't be any variab;es there. The scale is just like the ones we used in High School science classes. Weighs to the tenth of a gram. They are all over eBay.

I'll do some followup testing, Do you know the weight of any common item I can test?
Ride Safe:
Ron
1988 NT650 HawkGT;  1978 CB400 Hawk;  1975 CB750F -Free Bird; 1968 CB77 Super Hawk -Ticker;  Phaedrus 1972 CB750K2- Build Thread
"Sometimes the light's all shining on me, other times I can barely see, lately it appears to me, what a long, strange trip its been."

Offline Terry in Australia

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Re: Restart of old project: Phaedrus II: CB750 Sport-Tourer
« Reply #79 on: August 26, 2008, 12:51:26 am »
Hey Ron, are those cylinders in the pic bored for 836 or 888? I imagine if they're 888, the block has been re-sleeved? Cheers, Terry. ;D
I was feeling sorry for myself because I couldn't afford new bike boots, until I met a man with no legs.

So I said, "Hey mate, you haven't got any bike boots you don't need, do you?"

"Crazy is a very misunderstood term, it's a fine line that some of us can lean over and still keep our balance" (thanks RB550Four)

Offline MCRider

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Re: Restart of old project: Phaedrus II: CB750 Sport-Tourer
« Reply #80 on: August 26, 2008, 01:00:17 am »
Hey Ron, are those cylinders in the pic bored for 836 or 888? I imagine if they're 888, the block has been re-sleeved? Cheers, Terry. ;D

Those are the 888s. Yes they are resleeved, if you'll notice how thin the exposed skirt of the sleeve is. The OD is tapered down to fit in the crankcases without boring the crankcase.
Ride Safe:
Ron
1988 NT650 HawkGT;  1978 CB400 Hawk;  1975 CB750F -Free Bird; 1968 CB77 Super Hawk -Ticker;  Phaedrus 1972 CB750K2- Build Thread
"Sometimes the light's all shining on me, other times I can barely see, lately it appears to me, what a long, strange trip its been."

Offline mystic_1

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Re: Restart of old project: Phaedrus II: CB750 Sport-Tourer
« Reply #81 on: August 26, 2008, 05:35:34 am »
Yes, it has a thumb wheel adjuster on it to "0" it before weighing anything. Other than that, the weights are not removable, shouldn't be any variab;es there. The scale is just like the ones we used in High School science classes. Weighs to the tenth of a gram. They are all over eBay.

I'll do some followup testing, Do you know the weight of any common item I can test?



Hmm, I guess i'm spoiled, at my work we have Class 1 test weights calibrated to NIST master weights.  We actually calibrate the test weights used by other scale companies in the area.  I'll weigh up some random things today and give you some numbers to work with.

mystic_1
"A ship in harbor is safe, but that is not what ships are built for."
- John Augustus Shedd

My build thread:  http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=68952.0

Offline MCRider

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Re: Restart of old project: Phaedrus II: CB750 Sport-Tourer
« Reply #82 on: August 26, 2008, 05:49:54 am »
Yes, it has a thumb wheel adjuster on it to "0" it before weighing anything. Other than that, the weights are not removable, shouldn't be any variab;es there. The scale is just like the ones we used in High School science classes. Weighs to the tenth of a gram. They are all over eBay.

I'll do some followup testing, Do you know the weight of any common item I can test?



Hmm, I guess i'm spoiled, at my work we have Class 1 test weights calibrated to NIST master weights.  We actually calibrate the test weights used by other scale companies in the area.  I'll weigh up some random things today and give you some numbers to work with.

mystic_1

My scale is a "2610" 2,610 grams capacity. Problem is 610 grams are permanent fixtures on the beams. the extra 2000 are separate hanging weights which have a way of getting separated from these used scales.  I've looked up some lab supplies online and I can buy the missing weights for about $20, but 610 grams is all I need at least for now. The extra weights are in 1000g increments so I couldn't use them to test it anyway. Some of the scales on eBay have the weights, but the one I got had the carrying/storage case and I wanted the case more than the weights.

Ride Safe:
Ron
1988 NT650 HawkGT;  1978 CB400 Hawk;  1975 CB750F -Free Bird; 1968 CB77 Super Hawk -Ticker;  Phaedrus 1972 CB750K2- Build Thread
"Sometimes the light's all shining on me, other times I can barely see, lately it appears to me, what a long, strange trip its been."

Offline MCRider

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Re: Restart of old project: Phaedrus II: CB750 Sport-Tourer
« Reply #83 on: August 26, 2008, 06:06:37 am »
Thanks for the offer to test. we need something we both own. Are you a CB750 guy? how about a rocker arm.

I was told a stock piston pin weighs 45g. I have one from my old Powroll 888cc kit which I thought was a stocker, but it weighs 44g. So no conclusion. I have one from Yoshimura 750cc slipper pistons, but it weighs 37g. Again no conclusion. The one from my ARIAS kit weighs 41.5g. So I guess I don't have any stock pins.
Ride Safe:
Ron
1988 NT650 HawkGT;  1978 CB400 Hawk;  1975 CB750F -Free Bird; 1968 CB77 Super Hawk -Ticker;  Phaedrus 1972 CB750K2- Build Thread
"Sometimes the light's all shining on me, other times I can barely see, lately it appears to me, what a long, strange trip its been."

Offline mystic_1

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Re: Restart of old project: Phaedrus II: CB750 Sport-Tourer
« Reply #84 on: August 26, 2008, 07:37:22 am »
I brought in my stock 750 valve spring retainers.  Only brought in the four exhaust-side retainers.  Here's what I came up with:


#1 - 13.586g
#2 - 13.557g
#3 - 13.775g
#4 - 13.652g


mystic_1
"A ship in harbor is safe, but that is not what ships are built for."
- John Augustus Shedd

My build thread:  http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=68952.0

Offline MCRider

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Re: Restart of old project: Phaedrus II: CB750 Sport-Tourer
« Reply #85 on: August 26, 2008, 07:54:12 am »
I brought in my stock 750 valve spring retainers.  Only brought in the four exhaust-side retainers.  Here's what I came up with:


#1 - 13.586g
#2 - 13.557g
#3 - 13.775g
#4 - 13.652g


mystic_1
I reweighed all my retainers. They were all between 13.3 and 13.4g They have been glass beaded which could have removed 1-2 tenths perhaps compared to yours? Anyway, until further comparison, I'm comfortable my scale is close enough for government work. :)  And the Titanium are definitely lighter in a critical area.

I do have some stock retainers without glassbeading. I'll dig them out this weekend. Thanks.  I'm surprised of the differences you came up with. I guess those tolerances aren't critical in production.
Ride Safe:
Ron
1988 NT650 HawkGT;  1978 CB400 Hawk;  1975 CB750F -Free Bird; 1968 CB77 Super Hawk -Ticker;  Phaedrus 1972 CB750K2- Build Thread
"Sometimes the light's all shining on me, other times I can barely see, lately it appears to me, what a long, strange trip its been."

Offline mystic_1

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Re: Restart of old project: Phaedrus II: CB750 Sport-Tourer
« Reply #86 on: August 26, 2008, 07:57:56 am »
Yeah that surprised me a bit too, but we're talking about a maximum variation of 0.189g which is about 1.3%, as you say "close enough for government work" :D

I'll see about weighing up some pistons and rocker arms tomorrow, you've got mu curiosity up :)

mystic_1
"A ship in harbor is safe, but that is not what ships are built for."
- John Augustus Shedd

My build thread:  http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=68952.0

Offline MCRider

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Re: Restart of old project: Phaedrus II: CB750 Sport-Tourer
« Reply #87 on: August 26, 2008, 02:15:06 pm »
Terry, check your PMs.
Ride Safe:
Ron
1988 NT650 HawkGT;  1978 CB400 Hawk;  1975 CB750F -Free Bird; 1968 CB77 Super Hawk -Ticker;  Phaedrus 1972 CB750K2- Build Thread
"Sometimes the light's all shining on me, other times I can barely see, lately it appears to me, what a long, strange trip its been."

Offline Terry in Australia

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Re: Restart of old project: Phaedrus II: CB750 Sport-Tourer
« Reply #88 on: August 26, 2008, 08:24:16 pm »
Thanks Ron, I just replied. Cheers, Terry. ;D
I was feeling sorry for myself because I couldn't afford new bike boots, until I met a man with no legs.

So I said, "Hey mate, you haven't got any bike boots you don't need, do you?"

"Crazy is a very misunderstood term, it's a fine line that some of us can lean over and still keep our balance" (thanks RB550Four)

Offline mystic_1

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Re: Restart of old project: Phaedrus II: CB750 Sport-Tourer
« Reply #89 on: August 27, 2008, 09:39:15 pm »
OK, brought home a balance and weighed up a few things.  Here's what I got:

All measurements are in grams, resolution was 0.005g


Valve Retainers

   Intake      Exhaust
1   13.585      13.640
2   13.560      13.695
3   13.775      13.845
4   13.650      13.775


Valve keepers

   Intake      Exhaust
1   0.780      0.790
   0.785      0.780

2   0.795      0.780
   0.790      0.795

3   0.770      0.795
   0.790      0.810

4   0.790      0.790
   0.795      0.790


Valves

   Intake      Exhaust
1   46.290      42.630
2   46.535      42.445
3   46.095      42.715
4   46.280      42.720


Rocker Arms

   Intake      Exhaust
1   67.225      63.460
2   65.000      64.350
3   64.610      63.305
4   65.595      63.165


Tappet Adjusting Screws

   Intake      Exhaust
1   3.330      3.335
2   3.340      3.335
3   3.335      3.350
4   3.340      3.350


Tappet Screw Locknuts

   Intake      Exhaust
1   2.695      2.655
2   2.725      2.640
3   2.705      2.650
4   2.665      2.630


Pistons (Stock)

1   161.205
2   161.170
3   160.370
4   160.780


Pistons (Aftermarket ART 300)

1   158.885
2   158.595
3   158.300
4   158.385


Wrist Pins

1   40.010
2   39.910
3   40.050
4   39.460



cheers
mystic_1
"A ship in harbor is safe, but that is not what ships are built for."
- John Augustus Shedd

My build thread:  http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=68952.0

Offline MCRider

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Re: Restart of old project: Phaedrus II: CB750 Sport-Tourer
« Reply #90 on: August 28, 2008, 07:16:03 am »
Did your pistons include rings or no?
Were the ART pistons stock size?
Were the piston pins stockers?
Ride Safe:
Ron
1988 NT650 HawkGT;  1978 CB400 Hawk;  1975 CB750F -Free Bird; 1968 CB77 Super Hawk -Ticker;  Phaedrus 1972 CB750K2- Build Thread
"Sometimes the light's all shining on me, other times I can barely see, lately it appears to me, what a long, strange trip its been."

Offline mystic_1

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Re: Restart of old project: Phaedrus II: CB750 Sport-Tourer
« Reply #91 on: August 28, 2008, 07:38:01 am »
Pistons were weighed by themselves, no rings or clips installed.

The ART pistons were stock size, I was a bit surprised to find them that much lighter.

Wrist pins were stock.

mystic_1
"A ship in harbor is safe, but that is not what ships are built for."
- John Augustus Shedd

My build thread:  http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=68952.0

Offline MCRider

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Re: Restart of old project: Phaedrus II: CB750 Sport-Tourer
« Reply #92 on: September 01, 2008, 09:08:28 pm »
Got my 5 hours in...sortof. Been fighting a summer cold for 10 days now. Spend a few more hours on this site and others shopping and learning. Received my rear wheel parts from the polisher. Here they are with a finned axle spacer.


Not much hard progress, but after shoppping for a pin spanner for the wheel beraings, all I could find were more than i wanted to pay. Found an adjustable pin spanner with a Toyota brand, really nice tool, but $65+. Too much for me. remembering some ideas of homemade tools from posts here, I came up with this:

A bit of wheelbarrow handle and 2 nails used for concrete forms. They have two heads, one you hit and one that bottoms out on the form. This leaves part of the nail exposed so they are easy to get hold of with a nail remover. So by cutting off the top of the nail what I'm left with is a pin of the nearly correct size. I drilled holes so the nails wouldn't drift as I nailed them in.  As so,


Perfect fit:


If I can get the rear wheel built soon, I'll mount a used up tire for size, see if the swingarm fits, mostly worried about the brake stay. Then it goes to be rechromed and to HondaMan for bushes, and the frame goes for final mods and powdercoating. It will happen but don't hold your breath.
« Last Edit: September 01, 2008, 09:13:03 pm by MCRider1 »
Ride Safe:
Ron
1988 NT650 HawkGT;  1978 CB400 Hawk;  1975 CB750F -Free Bird; 1968 CB77 Super Hawk -Ticker;  Phaedrus 1972 CB750K2- Build Thread
"Sometimes the light's all shining on me, other times I can barely see, lately it appears to me, what a long, strange trip its been."

Offline Terry in Australia

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Re: Restart of old project: Phaedrus II: CB750 Sport-Tourer
« Reply #93 on: September 04, 2008, 01:08:21 am »
Very nice mate, I'd polish my hub to go with that beeootiful Borrani rim you sent me, but I'm way too lazy. I'm gonna make a trick front wheel bearing remover on the weekend, that will allow the cap to be unscrewed using a socket wrench. Keep going mate, and post more pics! ;D
I was feeling sorry for myself because I couldn't afford new bike boots, until I met a man with no legs.

So I said, "Hey mate, you haven't got any bike boots you don't need, do you?"

"Crazy is a very misunderstood term, it's a fine line that some of us can lean over and still keep our balance" (thanks RB550Four)

Offline MCRider

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Re: Restart of old project: Phaedrus II: CB750 Sport-Tourer
« Reply #94 on: September 04, 2008, 06:48:22 am »
Very nice mate, I'd polish my hub to go with that beeootiful Borrani rim you sent me, but I'm way too lazy. I'm gonna make a trick front wheel bearing remover on the weekend, that will allow the cap to be unscrewed using a socket wrench. Keep going mate, and post more pics! ;D

Just wipe the hub off with some cleaner, it'll be fine. Glad the rim got there and you like it.

I looked for a socket I could grind down, the only one I had big enough (for the rear) was one bought special to service water heaters and I didn't want to trash it. Let us see what you do.

Next step on my project will be a lot of cleaning.
Ride Safe:
Ron
1988 NT650 HawkGT;  1978 CB400 Hawk;  1975 CB750F -Free Bird; 1968 CB77 Super Hawk -Ticker;  Phaedrus 1972 CB750K2- Build Thread
"Sometimes the light's all shining on me, other times I can barely see, lately it appears to me, what a long, strange trip its been."

Offline Terry in Australia

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Re: Restart of old project: Phaedrus II: CB750 Sport-Tourer
« Reply #95 on: September 06, 2008, 06:41:29 pm »
Here you go Ron, I "changed Tack" with the tool because this one was easy and cheap (just like me, ha ha!) but it works much better than anything I've tried so far. Cheers, Terry.  ;D



For the full story with more pics, check this thread:

http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=40252.0
I was feeling sorry for myself because I couldn't afford new bike boots, until I met a man with no legs.

So I said, "Hey mate, you haven't got any bike boots you don't need, do you?"

"Crazy is a very misunderstood term, it's a fine line that some of us can lean over and still keep our balance" (thanks RB550Four)

Offline MCRider

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Re: Restart of old project: Phaedrus II: CB750 Sport-Tourer
« Reply #96 on: September 06, 2008, 08:24:12 pm »
Man that tool looks great! Full response on your post.
Ride Safe:
Ron
1988 NT650 HawkGT;  1978 CB400 Hawk;  1975 CB750F -Free Bird; 1968 CB77 Super Hawk -Ticker;  Phaedrus 1972 CB750K2- Build Thread
"Sometimes the light's all shining on me, other times I can barely see, lately it appears to me, what a long, strange trip its been."

Offline MCRider

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Re: Phaedrus II: CB750 Custom - Update 9/8/08 - No Pics :(
« Reply #97 on: September 08, 2008, 04:02:22 pm »
Got my 5 hours in. Spent most of it cleaning as i thought I would. My rear hub, bought sight unseen, though polished, (see last week's pictures) was not finished ready to use. It still had the spoke marks on the sides which I decided I just couldn't live with. Since my Rim is 17" vs the 18", the spokes would have a slightly different angle and the old spoke marks would show. So I sanded them down with 220 wet, then up to 400, 600...1500. They came completely out and I tried to mess up as little of the polish job as possible, but it still needs a redo. So I'm biting the bullet and buying a polish kit from Eastwood or the like.

The brake drum was hugely rusted and that took about an hour. The other side where the dampers go was really dirty and I cleaned it spotless with a rotary wire brush first on a drill, then a Dremel.

I finally boxed up the tranny from a parts bike with only 10k miles on it and sent it to APE for inspection and undercutting. The tranny from Phaedrus I had at least 70k on it and at least once i had to replace second gear as i was not particularly kind to it in my earlier life. While I may never do it again, I loved to powershift, (hold the throttle WFO and just bang it through the gears, with as little clutch as possible.). I always wanted an undercut tranny and so now i will have one.

http://aperaceparts.com/transmissions.html

Part of the theme of this build is to fulfill my past fantasies. I never had a gusseted frame, now I do. Never had undercut tranny, now I do, etc, etc,.

While i had an 888cc kit, it was from Powroll and they were cast pistons and weighed a bloody ton. Now they are forged and really cool.

So to make up for no pictures, i'll tell a little story. This is a 72 K2 I bought in 74. At that time it had an 836cckit, Kerker, Windjammer, etc and was built by a shop where I worked. I stopped working there and about 6 months later, the bike showed up for sale in a used bike lot in Tucson where I was living/hiding out. I recognized it and bought it. I sold the Windjammer to pay for a years insurance.

Roadracing, touring, drag racing, 2 cosmetic totals later, I'm back in Indy. So with the new version Phaedrus I 888cc Kit, I just get back from 8 days around Lake Superior with some friends. The clutch goes out on the triip. (Did I mention I like to powershift) So I pull an all nighter tuning, changing out the clutch, farting around, and go with the same friends to pick up my blind date to spend a day at the Covered Bridge Festival in Rockford IN. We spent the whole day together riding around country roads. Then 2.5 years later we get married and 23 years later I'm typing this. She said watching my hands run the control turned her on.

Yeah right.   ;D

« Last Edit: September 08, 2008, 04:53:36 pm by MCRider1 »
Ride Safe:
Ron
1988 NT650 HawkGT;  1978 CB400 Hawk;  1975 CB750F -Free Bird; 1968 CB77 Super Hawk -Ticker;  Phaedrus 1972 CB750K2- Build Thread
"Sometimes the light's all shining on me, other times I can barely see, lately it appears to me, what a long, strange trip its been."

Offline Ecosse

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Re: Phaedrus II: CB750 Custom - Update 9/8/08 - No Pics :(
« Reply #98 on: September 08, 2008, 06:37:58 pm »
Great tale!

I have followed this build but could you expand on the Phaedrus name? I know a smidgen about ancient Greece but I'm at a loss. I can't wait to see how this turns out by the way; I love unique and personal builds.
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Offline MCRider

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Re: Phaedrus II: CB750 Custom - Update 9/8/08 - No Pics :(
« Reply #99 on: September 08, 2008, 06:45:37 pm »
Great tale!

I have followed this build but could you expand on the Phaedrus name? I know a smidgen about ancient Greece but I'm at a loss. I can't wait to see how this turns out by the way; I love unique and personal builds.
"Phaedrus" was used by Robert Pirsig to identify his alter ego in the book "Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance". Yes it is the Phaedrus of the Greek connection, as in the Dialogues of Phaedrus and Plato.

Pirsig was/is in real life a true genius and, as Phaedrus, quite mad.

So I just picked it up as my alter ego.
« Last Edit: September 08, 2008, 06:48:57 pm by MCRider1 »
Ride Safe:
Ron
1988 NT650 HawkGT;  1978 CB400 Hawk;  1975 CB750F -Free Bird; 1968 CB77 Super Hawk -Ticker;  Phaedrus 1972 CB750K2- Build Thread
"Sometimes the light's all shining on me, other times I can barely see, lately it appears to me, what a long, strange trip its been."