Author Topic: Phaedrus: CB750 RestoMod - Update: 09/23/21 w/ new video  (Read 868751 times)

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Offline DarkRider

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Re: Phaedrus II: CB750 Custom - Update 11/23/08 - w/new pics
« Reply #200 on: November 25, 2008, 07:29:36 PM »
Why not just run a Bicycle speedometer with a magnet pick up? Thats what a lot of street fighter builders use after dumping the guages off of the modern sport bikes.
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Offline Ecosse

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Re: Phaedrus II: CB750 Custom - Update 11/23/08 - w/new pics
« Reply #201 on: November 25, 2008, 08:13:01 PM »
Why not just run a Bicycle speedometer with a magnet pick up? Thats what a lot of street fighter builders use after dumping the guages off of the modern sport bikes.

I don't know this to be a fact but I seem to recall that someone here in SOHC/4 Land advised that some states forbid use of those on motor vehicles. It would be worth checking out which state allows it. But MCRider also mentioned wanting to keep a period feel to Phaedrus II.

I've seen a bunch of bikes with those too and IMO it's a darn practical solution in most cases.
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Offline XN

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Re: Phaedrus II: CB750 Custom - Update 11/23/08 - w/new pics
« Reply #202 on: November 25, 2008, 10:57:29 PM »
Check these speedo's out, both can use a magnetic pickup.  ;)

http://www.electrosport.com/street/speedometers.php

http://www.veypor.com/
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Offline MCRider

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Re: Phaedrus II: CB750 Custom - Update 11/23/08 - w/new pics
« Reply #203 on: November 26, 2008, 02:28:56 AM »
Why not just run a Bicycle speedometer with a magnet pick up? Thats what a lot of street fighter builders use after dumping the guages off of the modern sport bikes.

I don't know this to be a fact but I seem to recall that someone here in SOHC/4 Land advised that some states forbid use of those on motor vehicles. It would be worth checking out which state allows it. But MCRider also mentioned wanting to keep a period feel to Phaedrus II.

I've seen a bunch of bikes with those too and IMO it's a darn practical solution in most cases.
Thanks guys. That would be a solution. But Ecosse is right, I want to keep it pre-1978. That is all mods had to be available at least in concept by 1978 or before.

I'm leaning towards modifying the gauge face. I want to use K1 gauges as they have the idiot lights built in. I need the handlebar space for the airforks filler mount, ignition mount and oil pressure gauge. I have a set of K1 gauges, but they need reconditioning, so a new face should be easy.

But the magnetic electronic path is what I'll be doing on my next build.
« Last Edit: November 26, 2008, 02:38:49 AM by MCRider »
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Offline MCRider

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Re: Phaedrus II: CB750 Custom - Update 11/23/08 - w/new pics
« Reply #204 on: November 26, 2008, 02:36:40 AM »
Check these speedo's out, both can use a magnetic pickup.  ;)

http://www.electrosport.com/street/speedometers.php

http://www.veypor.com/

Thanks XN those electrosports are cool! Not for this build as I'm attempting to keep it period.

I'll be using those on the next build which will be a minimalist rat cafe racer based on a rolling chassis I have now 1976 CB750F. Hoping to get it under 425lbs. Built around a 750cc Yoshimura 2 ring slipper piston set I have from the old roadracer days
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Offline MCRider

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Re: Phaedrus II: CB750 Super Standard - Update 11/30/08 - w/new pics
« Reply #205 on: November 30, 2008, 01:47:13 PM »
I've adopted the moniker from Ecosse prior post: Phaedrus is a "Super Standard". For all appearances it is a standard, what the motorcycles mags used to call a UJM: universal Japanese motorcycle. But every single part has been breathed on, some rather heavily. I like it.

This week was productive, though not so much visibly. I ground some more on the tank and it fits better with the unground tank rubbers. I'll have the machinist tack weld some straps on the mounts I have hacked up and it will be perfect.

I got the front wheel out of storage (2.5 x 17 Excel with SS spokes) and set the front fender (Kaw ZL1000) on it for the first time. The wheel is a 17" and the fender an 18" but i think it will look fine. That tire has NO tread on it so a fresh one will fill the fender more.



110 wide fits fine, maybe a 120 will later. There have been some pictures posted by bigfootball of his cool bike "Excess" with a Telefix fork brace on it. I think I'll get that, which was built for a 19" wheel. There should be plenty of space below it to hang the fender, so I won't need to figure out how to mount it to the fork legs.


Here's the adjusted list for the machine shop:
Gas Tank:
1.   Tack weld the straps on top of front mounts.

Frame:
1   Straighten Left Front Engine Guard. Fill in slot and re-drill at end of slot for 10mm motor mount.
2   Weld triangle motor mount onto right front engine guard.  Fill in upper mount slot, grind, and re-drill at end of slot based on the hole in the triangle motor mount for 10mm.
3   Smooth and Fill all welds marked by Orange Paint, plus any not marked. Remove steering stem to fill the gusset at the top of steering neck.
4   Left Engine Guard center mount. Remove tab on top, radius. Weld tab on bottom of frame rail for engine guard to bolt to.
5   Steering Damper Bracket: A. Raise so angle of damper is same as angle of lower tree. B.  Move back so lower tree hits the original “lock to lock” steering stop points.
6   Rear Footpegs: Object: Footpegs mounted at same angle as adjacent frame tube. (Swept back about 45 degrees.)  Idea: Use threaded bolt in mounting lug. Thread in to lug to pivot bolt hole. Cut head off bolt, insert in hole in frame, and weld. (Peg, lug, and bolt in box.)
7   Muffler Hanger: Weld tab on bottom side of right side footpeg rail. Ten mm hole with threads on backside? Or use a through bolt and nut.
8   Fill and smooth backside of right front motor mounts.
9   Oil Cooler: Weld mounting strap across front of frame as indicated with template. Drill mounting holes. (Radiator in box).
10   Front Rail Gussets: Weld tabs to frame with threaded backsides per template. Cut triangles gussets to bolt to tabs and removable frame rails. (Templates in box).
11   Remove horn bracket. Grind smooth.
12   Straighten fork stop.
Swing arm:
1   Remove tabs on left top. Smooth.
2   Fill and smooth old zerk fitting holes.
3   Reposition brake stay mount. Remove and grind down old one, re-weld new one.
4   Cut down rear chain guard mount. Leave enough to use as a mount, similar to the front mount.
Marked the frame with tags and paint for machinist:

and the swingarm

I'll order main bearing shells this week. Assemble fork legs probably next on list. I've got to make a cleaning brush to run through the tubes i bought from Franks years ago. They have rusted on the inside. :(  I figure a rotary wire brush welded to a long rod I can chuck up in a drill and run through the tube.
« Last Edit: November 30, 2008, 02:14:02 PM by MCRider »
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1988 NT650 HawkGT;  1978 CB400 Hawk;  1975 CB750F -Free Bird; 1968 CB77 Super Hawk -Ticker;  Phaedrus 1972 CB750K2- Build Thread
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Offline Ecosse

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Re: Phaedrus II: CB750 "Super Standard" - Update 11/30/08 - w/new pics
« Reply #206 on: November 30, 2008, 02:01:33 PM »
Glad to see the frame will be strengthened and weld gaps closed. Maybe a detail some builders overlook? I know from building cars that the more ridged the frame the more stable the handling and the less stiff the suspension needs to be to take up the 'slack'.

Sorry if I missed it but I wonder what exhaust you might use. The Benji's four into four might look the part on this one. Maybe too pricey or heavy?
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Offline MCRider

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Re: Phaedrus II: CB750 "Super Standard" - Update 11/30/08 - w/new pics
« Reply #207 on: November 30, 2008, 02:02:19 PM »
Part of my styling theme is the "ridges" or finned look. The rear pegs are "O-ring" type, the axle spacer is finned, the brake stay is fiinned, the black shock springs on the chrome body carry the look, the engine covers are all finned and my personal jewel is the "unobtanium" Henry Abe finned tappet covers.
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1988 NT650 HawkGT;  1978 CB400 Hawk;  1975 CB750F -Free Bird; 1968 CB77 Super Hawk -Ticker;  Phaedrus 1972 CB750K2- Build Thread
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Offline MCRider

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Re: Phaedrus II: CB750 "Super Standard" - Update 11/30/08 - w/new pics
« Reply #208 on: November 30, 2008, 02:06:38 PM »
Glad to see the frame will be strengthened and weld gaps closed. Maybe a detail some builders overlook? I know from building cars that the more ridged the frame the more stable the handling and the less stiff the suspension needs to be to take up the 'slack'.

Sorry if I missed it but I wonder what exhaust you might use. The Benji's four into four might look the part on this one. Maybe too pricey or heavy?
A lot of the frame strengthening has already been done. Visible in earlier posts before page 5. Heavy gussets where the seat meets tank frame area, smaller gussets above the swingarm. I'm having them smoothed and some more added.

If you go back to page 5, you'll see the Marshall DeepTone I scored for this project. I don't think they are still available for the CB750K. Nothing truly special in many eyes but it did come from the Netherlands (or Sweden? I forget which) which is semi-exotic.
« Last Edit: November 30, 2008, 02:09:19 PM by MCRider »
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Offline Ecosse

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Re: Phaedrus II: CB750 "Super Standard" - Update 11/30/08 - w/new pics
« Reply #209 on: November 30, 2008, 02:24:56 PM »
That's right... forgot about the earlier frame posts. Sorry.

When my MAC exhaust is shot I might go with Marshall if I can or Lazer. I heard good things about quality and sound so if either are available when the time comes.. that's me. BTW: That Marshall is very cool looking, yes, exotic too. Are the primaries equal length? Sorry again if that was addressed; I'm just a dumb college student. ::)

Tappet covers... sweeeet!
« Last Edit: November 30, 2008, 02:29:11 PM by Ecosse »
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Offline MCRider

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Re: Phaedrus II: CB750 "Super Standard" - Update 11/30/08 - w/new pics
« Reply #210 on: November 30, 2008, 02:33:06 PM »
That's right... forgot about the earlier frame posts. Sorry.

When my MAC exhaust is shot I might go with Marshall if I can or Lazer. I heard good things about quality and sound so if either are available when the time comes.. that's me. BTW: That Marshall is very cool looking, yes, exotic too. Are the primaries equal length? Sorry again if that was addressed; I'm just a dumb college student. ::)

Tappet covers... sweeeet!

Don't appear to be equal length, and it wasn't promoted as such. They did have a dyno run on the website when i bought it 4+ years ago showing improved mid-range on a stocker, which is where i live when i ride.

The source of the tappet covers has long since been lost to my memory. I probably didn't know what I had when I bought them, probably at a swap meet on a whim.
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1988 NT650 HawkGT;  1978 CB400 Hawk;  1975 CB750F -Free Bird; 1968 CB77 Super Hawk -Ticker;  Phaedrus 1972 CB750K2- Build Thread
"Sometimes the light's all shining on me, other times I can barely see, lately it appears to me, what a long, strange trip its been."

Offline Terry in Australia

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Re: Phaedrus II: CB750 "Super Standard" - Update 11/30/08 - w/new pics
« Reply #211 on: November 30, 2008, 11:27:20 PM »
Ooooer, I like those tappet covers Ron, I might machine some up from billet! Hey is that a K0 swingarm?

Unless you've mounted that bracket nearest the left hand side axle slot, I'm pretty sure it is, and it'd be a shame to modify it, there's probably a K0 restorer out there who'd buy you a nice K2 arm for a trade?

That fender does look good mate, well picked! ;D
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Offline MCRider

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Re: Phaedrus II: CB750 "Super Standard" - Update 11/30/08 - w/new pics
« Reply #212 on: December 01, 2008, 06:39:04 AM »
Ooooer, I like those tappet covers Ron, I might machine some up from billet! Hey is that a K0 swingarm?

Unless you've mounted that bracket nearest the left hand side axle slot, I'm pretty sure it is, and it'd be a shame to modify it, there's probably a K0 restorer out there who'd buy you a nice K2 arm for a trade?

That fender does look good mate, well picked! ;D
I'm not sure what you mean by "bracket nearest the left hand side axle slot". There are few parts left original K2 on this bike. I thought the frame, swingarm and crankcases were it. Can't rememebr why i would have ever swapped out the swingarm. I never damaged it in a wreck, though virtually everything that could touch has touched. Anyway, unless it was a real easy swap, I'm ready to take it to the welder.

Fender does look good. Hope I can mount it.
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Ron
1988 NT650 HawkGT;  1978 CB400 Hawk;  1975 CB750F -Free Bird; 1968 CB77 Super Hawk -Ticker;  Phaedrus 1972 CB750K2- Build Thread
"Sometimes the light's all shining on me, other times I can barely see, lately it appears to me, what a long, strange trip its been."

Offline voxonda

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Re: Phaedrus II: CB750 "Super Standard" - Update 11/30/08 - w/new pics
« Reply #213 on: December 01, 2008, 07:07:10 AM »
Marshall is from the Netherlands, and still available by JAMA Engineering fouded 1975. Think the bike will turn out fine!

cheers, Rob
« Last Edit: December 01, 2008, 07:11:42 AM by voxonda »
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Offline MCRider

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Re: Phaedrus II: CB750 "Super Standard" - Update 11/30/08 - w/new pics
« Reply #214 on: December 01, 2008, 04:23:36 PM »
Marshall is from the Netherlands, and still available by JAMA Engineering fouded 1975. Think the bike will turn out fine!

cheers, Rob
Thanks! I'm lusting after some of your parts. We may deal someday.
http://www.voxonda.com/index.php?page=shop
Ride Safe:
Ron
1988 NT650 HawkGT;  1978 CB400 Hawk;  1975 CB750F -Free Bird; 1968 CB77 Super Hawk -Ticker;  Phaedrus 1972 CB750K2- Build Thread
"Sometimes the light's all shining on me, other times I can barely see, lately it appears to me, what a long, strange trip its been."

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Re: Phaedrus II: CB750 "Super Standard" - Update 12/07/08 - w/new pics
« Reply #215 on: December 07, 2008, 09:28:29 AM »
Some progress, but its COLD here. My shop is well insulated, R25 ceiling, insulated block walls, (R9?) not not well heated. I can knock the chill off with space heaters, but when its 12 F outside, 35 is about all I can raise it to. I had the electrician stubb out a 220 for a heater, but never popped for the unit. Orange coil on the wall.

When you build your shop, I recommend using "rollup" doors to save overhead space.




Downside is poor insulation and they blew my budget (at the time). But I don't regret it now.
Two goals today, installed spring height on the head and main bearings. So I took 3 valves apart and reinstalled them with only the internal spring. The measured height is way off from what MRieck thought it should be, so I've got a PM to him for more guidance. Suspecting the heights are off, I'll go to Harbor Freight for some better tools, caliper etc.


Next we pulled the bearing shells out of the cases. Three greens and 2 browns. My memory was 4 greens and 1 brown, but that was 28 years ago. Too cold to start the Plastigauge process. But my main concern was if I could see all the colors. That gives me a baseline. My crank has been polished for 2 times, and the codes ground off in the lightening process.

In other threads, posters have indicated they couldn't see the colors. Mine are 28 years old, at least 50K miles, and I could see the colors plainly.

Off to Harbor Freight.
« Last Edit: December 07, 2008, 09:34:08 AM by MCRider »
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1988 NT650 HawkGT;  1978 CB400 Hawk;  1975 CB750F -Free Bird; 1968 CB77 Super Hawk -Ticker;  Phaedrus 1972 CB750K2- Build Thread
"Sometimes the light's all shining on me, other times I can barely see, lately it appears to me, what a long, strange trip its been."

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Re: Phaedrus II: CB750 "Super Standard" - Update 12/07/08 - w/new pics
« Reply #216 on: December 07, 2008, 09:59:22 AM »
i was thinking, isnt there a code also stamped into the cases in the front?

Offline MCRider

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Re: Phaedrus II: CB750 "Super Standard" - Update 12/07/08 - w/new pics
« Reply #217 on: December 07, 2008, 11:00:36 AM »
i was thinking, isnt there a code also stamped into the cases in the front?
Yes but that code is combined with the code on the crank to give the bearing sizes. If one code or the other is missing, then its Plastigage and or micrometers. Plastigage is really no problem once you determine that's whats necessary.
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Ron
1988 NT650 HawkGT;  1978 CB400 Hawk;  1975 CB750F -Free Bird; 1968 CB77 Super Hawk -Ticker;  Phaedrus 1972 CB750K2- Build Thread
"Sometimes the light's all shining on me, other times I can barely see, lately it appears to me, what a long, strange trip its been."

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Re: Phaedrus II: CB750 "Super Standard" - Update 12/07/08 - w/new pics
« Reply #218 on: December 07, 2008, 03:14:56 PM »
ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhh ok

Offline MCRider

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Re: Phaedrus II: CB750 "Super Standard" - Update 12/14/08 - w/new pics
« Reply #219 on: December 14, 2008, 02:23:16 PM »
Pretty good day today. Friday I received my "valve spring tester" and Big Jay from APE provided information which along with guidance from Mike Rieck put me on track to finish my head. Here's the tester: (apologies to Jay for negative comment last week. Poor understanding on my part, folks at APE are great.)

As you can see it works with a vice. So it pays to have a vice with a nice action. I went through 3 vices before I landed on this one. Surprisingly its a Craftsman, but the jaw movement responds quickly and smoothly to inputs from the crank. Prior vices the crank would turn 1/4 to 1/2 before the jaw would respond.  Discoveries were that the stock springs and the APE springs were about the same length at a desired seat pressure. But as you shorten the spring with the vice the APE spring pressure went up quickly while the stock spring lagged. Also the APE springs were very consistent spring to spring, though i didn;t check the stockers. I'd read that the quality control in stock springs is often wanting. That's what we would expect, but it was good to see it in "print". Side note, the APE spring was much lighter than the stocker. Along with the Ti retainers makes for a lighter valve train. Lightened rockers are not in the budget for this project, maybe the next one. Head is now back together. Seat pressures and installed heights amazingly close, within a few thousandths, no shims required. The guy who did my head many years ago must have done a good job.

Yesterday I took my cases to the car wash and got 90% of the gunk off of them. They were really dirty. When I parked it in 1995, it was leaking from many orifices and I'd never cleaned it. Last license plate:


But its clean enough now to plastigage the main Journals. For those new to the sport, plastigage is a thin thread of hard plastic, sold in a paper sleeve for about $1.50 each. One is plenty to do two or four tests. We use the Green for CB750 journals, Blue and Red for other tolerances.


My original bearings are scuffed 50K miles worth, but no deep scratches, I'd consider it regular wear and tear.


So I put them back in the cases and laid a strip of Plastigage in each journal:
(Picture didn't come out Rats)
Then you set the crank in carefully avoiding turning it, Set the bottom case on, torque it down, remove it and examine the gage. The plastic thread will flatten upon torquing the tighter the clearance the wider the resulting spot of plastic. The ovals of plastic seen here are very uniform and of such width to indicate the journal/bearing clearance is good.

Its hard to see the smear on the bearing itself for the flash, but it says the same thing. Right below the oil hole in the bearing shell:

I'll use the same color bearings, just buy fresh ones. I had one fresh set of greens in stock. I have 2 sets of yellows if anyone needs them and I need 1 more green and 3 more browns. If i don't hear back soon I'll be ordering from Bike Bandit as i have a gift card from them.
I'll finish cleaning the cases in the parts cleaner. I was hoping to get by without painting them, but the finish is bad in a few areas. I'll review the many painting threads for tips.
« Last Edit: December 14, 2008, 03:03:38 PM by MCRider »
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1988 NT650 HawkGT;  1978 CB400 Hawk;  1975 CB750F -Free Bird; 1968 CB77 Super Hawk -Ticker;  Phaedrus 1972 CB750K2- Build Thread
"Sometimes the light's all shining on me, other times I can barely see, lately it appears to me, what a long, strange trip its been."

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Re: Phaedrus II: CB750 "Super Standard" - Update 12/14/08 - w/new pics
« Reply #220 on: December 18, 2008, 11:12:41 AM »
I'll be gone over this weekend to a cabin in the woods with little sweetie. So no update till 1/4/009.

Thanks to everyone for reading and contributing to this project, it really adds a dimension missing in the pre-internet days. It may seem like its taking forever and it is, but I knew it would likely be a year if everything went well and I'm on track for that. I'm lucky to have a good and dedicated buddy who comes over every Sunday AM to lend a hand. Knowing he is coming helps me get out of bed and get things ready to maximize his time. His names not on the title but its his bike too.

My busiest work time is Feb to April so I may have a set back/slow down. But I'll try to keep up my 5 hours per week goal. Its good therapy.

Amazing talent and experience on this board. Amazed also at the number of youngsters interested in these bikes. Makes it fun.

Merry Christmas and Happy New Year!
Ride Safe:
Ron
1988 NT650 HawkGT;  1978 CB400 Hawk;  1975 CB750F -Free Bird; 1968 CB77 Super Hawk -Ticker;  Phaedrus 1972 CB750K2- Build Thread
"Sometimes the light's all shining on me, other times I can barely see, lately it appears to me, what a long, strange trip its been."

Offline DollarBill

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Re: Phaedrus II: CB750 "Super Standard" - Update 12/18/08 - no new pics
« Reply #221 on: December 18, 2008, 11:37:06 AM »
Merry Christmas and Happy New Year to you and yours!

I haven't been on this board very long but daily I am amazed at this community which spans ages, countries, and languages.  Everyone willing to help and offer advice.  You learn something new everyday and continually make new friends.

Enjoy your time in the woods and I look forward to your updates in the new year!  -Bill
1975 CB750F Project Yellow Jacket - CBR600rr Swinger GSXR 600 Forks
1955 BMW R25/3, 1966 Honda CA160, 1975 CB400f, 1975 CB550, 1976 CB550

Online Really?

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Re: Phaedrus II: CB750 "Super Standard" - Update 12/18/08 - no new pics
« Reply #222 on: December 18, 2008, 11:38:11 AM »
Merry Christmas and Happy New Year to you and yours!

I haven't been on this board very long but daily I am amazed at this community which spans ages, countries, and languages.  Everyone willing to help and offer advice.  You learn something new everyday and continually make new friends.

Enjoy your time in the woods and I look forward to your updates in the new year!  -Bill

Ditto
I don't have a motorcycle, sold it ('85 Yamaha Venture Royale).  Haven't had a CB750 for over 40 years.

The Wife's Bike - 750K5
The Kid's Bike - 750K3

Offline voxonda

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Re: Phaedrus II: CB750 "Super Standard" - Update 12/18/08 - no new pics
« Reply #223 on: December 18, 2008, 12:47:09 PM »
And ditto from the Netherlands! Enjoy your time off, I know I will!

Cheers, Rob
Better sorry for failing then for the lack of trying.

Offline Ecosse

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Re: Phaedrus II: CB750 "Super Standard" - Update 12/18/08 - no new pics
« Reply #224 on: December 18, 2008, 01:13:30 PM »
Merry Christmas to you MC' and your loved ones. My best for a peaceful new year as well.

Likewise to all who read this (no matter your deity beliefs) and the rest of the SOHC family.
1974 CB550K     
                 
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