Author Topic: Phaedrus: CB750 RestoMod - Update: 09/23/21 w/ new video  (Read 855314 times)

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Offline MCRider

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Re: Phaedrus II: CB750 "Super Standard" - Update 12/18/08 - no new pics
« Reply #225 on: December 26, 2008, 02:19:46 pm »
Thanks to all for well wishes. and back at everyone, Merry Christmas.

Back from the Woods, I'll say a little bit about vacations in Open Forum.

Got my main bearings in while I was gone, so they go in with plastigage Sunday AM for final fitting. Will power wash the cases again Saturday, having a heat wave. Then they'll be ready to paint. Well...after tedious cleaning and masking.

While thinking about the project on vacation, I've decided to once again use a different mount for the oil cooler. As many suggested, rather than welding a permanent bracket on the frame, use the stock horn mount, come off it with an aluminum plate for the cooler.  This is actually how it was mounted on Phaedrus I. It had a little tail that hung down past the cooler for the stock horn.

The reason for the change of heart was the infamous oil cooler thread. It got me thinking if I want to upgrade the cooler later I don't know what the mount will be so best to keep my options open. I'll make a template Sunday.

I'll have some new footpegs for sale tomorrow in the classifieds, don't need them.
« Last Edit: December 26, 2008, 02:24:33 pm by MCRider »
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Ron
1988 NT650 HawkGT;  1978 CB400 Hawk;  1975 CB750F -Free Bird; 1968 CB77 Super Hawk -Ticker;  Phaedrus 1972 CB750K2- Build Thread
"Sometimes the light's all shining on me, other times I can barely see, lately it appears to me, what a long, strange trip its been."

Offline Terry in Australia

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Re: Phaedrus II: CB750 "Super Standard" - Update 12/26/08 - no new pics
« Reply #226 on: December 26, 2008, 02:38:57 pm »
Very nice Ron, I look forward to the next lot of pics. What sort of footpegs do you have for sale, stockers or something slightly more trick? Cheers, Terry. ;D
I was feeling sorry for myself because I couldn't afford new bike boots, until I met a man with no legs.

So I said, "Hey mate, you haven't got any bike boots you don't need, do you?"

"Crazy is a very misunderstood term, it's a fine line that some of us can lean over and still keep our balance" (thanks RB550Four)

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Re: Phaedrus II: CB750 "Super Standard" - Update 12/26/08 - no new pics
« Reply #227 on: December 26, 2008, 02:44:15 pm »
Very nice Ron, I look forward to the next lot of pics. What sort of footpegs do you have for sale, stockers or something slightly more trick? Cheers, Terry. ;D
They are a chrome clamp-on pair, brand "WFO", with a rubber pad insert, long and skinny. I'll get a picture soon. Best use for a highway peg by clamping onto a crash bar. New, nice looking.

I was going to use them for the passenger pegs, but am going with the "O Ring" style instead. Just a looks/taste issue.

Retail probably $34, but I'm sure i didn't pay more than $20 for them. I'll take $10 + S&H. Shipping is the issue.
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Ron
1988 NT650 HawkGT;  1978 CB400 Hawk;  1975 CB750F -Free Bird; 1968 CB77 Super Hawk -Ticker;  Phaedrus 1972 CB750K2- Build Thread
"Sometimes the light's all shining on me, other times I can barely see, lately it appears to me, what a long, strange trip its been."

Offline Ichiban 4

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Re: Phaedrus II: CB750 "Super Standard" - Update 12/26/08 - no new pics
« Reply #228 on: December 26, 2008, 04:50:22 pm »
Thanks for the latest update and info Ron..

Thanks too for the idea about mounting the oil cooler off of the horn bracket.  I hadn't mounted my oil cooler on my 550 either..due to the same concerns (permanency..wanting to change positioning later..et al.). 

Since Terry is probably checking these posts recently..I wanted to throw out the question to him again..regarding the use of an oil thermostat somewhere in the cooler system (I know that you said that your thermostat was integral to your cooler/radiator..Ron).   Terry: I wasn't clear on whether you felt they were a good idea or not?  Just seems to me that they can't hurt anything.  Maybe a problem finding an external unit that satisfies my aesthetic needs/wanting a pleasing appearance..yada yada..but that could be worked out I feel.

But..back to Ron's thread..I look forward to more pics of your Phaedrus build..when you have them Ron.  And obviously..I'm curious to see what you end up with..with your oil cooler mounting.

I personally hope to do more with my one and only 550 K this coming year.  One of the downsides I've found with being so-called "retired"..is that I'm busier than ever with all the probono/volunteer stuff that I do..which doesn't leave me as much time for strictly personal stuff as I'd like sometimes.   Well..@ least you..and guys like Terry help keep me motivated to do things in my own shop..thanks guys!

If I don't talk to you before..have a great Happy New Year's!

Al / Ichi
Al Summers

Present: '77 550K
Past: '73 CB450(twin), '72 CB175, '68 CB350, '58 Ariel Square 4 (1000cc), '58 Matchless Typhoon (650cc single), Whizzer Motorbikes '48 -'55 (Pacemaker & Sportsman)..Vespa, Lambretta scooters..etc.

Offline MCRider

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Re: Phaedrus II: CB750 "Super Standard" - Update 12/26/08 - no new pics
« Reply #229 on: December 27, 2008, 08:14:56 am »
Thanks for the latest update and info Ron..

Thanks too for the idea about mounting the oil cooler off of the horn bracket.  I hadn't mounted my oil cooler on my 550 either..due to the same concerns (permanency..wanting to change positioning later..et al.). 

Since Terry is probably checking these posts recently..I wanted to throw out the question to him again..regarding the use of an oil thermostat somewhere in the cooler system (I know that you said that your thermostat was integral to your cooler/radiator..Ron).   Terry: I wasn't clear on whether you felt they were a good idea or not?  Just seems to me that they can't hurt anything.  Maybe a problem finding an external unit that satisfies my aesthetic needs/wanting a pleasing appearance..yada yada..but that could be worked out I feel.

But..back to Ron's thread..I look forward to more pics of your Phaedrus build..when you have them Ron.  And obviously..I'm curious to see what you end up with..with your oil cooler mounting.

I personally hope to do more with my one and only 550 K this coming year.  One of the downsides I've found with being so-called "retired"..is that I'm busier than ever with all the probono/volunteer stuff that I do..which doesn't leave me as much time for strictly personal stuff as I'd like sometimes.   Well..@ least you..and guys like Terry help keep me motivated to do things in my own shop..thanks guys!

If I don't talk to you before..have a great Happy New Year's!

Al / Ichi
Correction: I may have thought I had a thermostat at some point, but I don't. Leading to using a changable mount for what I do have. I'll mount what I have for now as I'm not worried about temperature change as much as i am finishing the project. I can upgrade later.

Terry and others: I am posting the Peg pictures in "Classifieds parts for sale".
Ride Safe:
Ron
1988 NT650 HawkGT;  1978 CB400 Hawk;  1975 CB750F -Free Bird; 1968 CB77 Super Hawk -Ticker;  Phaedrus 1972 CB750K2- Build Thread
"Sometimes the light's all shining on me, other times I can barely see, lately it appears to me, what a long, strange trip its been."

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Re: Phaedrus II: CB750 "Super Standard" - Update 12/26/08 - no new pics
« Reply #230 on: December 27, 2008, 03:18:02 pm »

Terry: I wasn't clear on whether you felt they were a good idea or not?  Just seems to me that they can't hurt anything. 

Al / Ichi

G'Day Al, yeah mate, you can buy several different external thermostatic bypass valves that plug in the lines between cooler adapter and radiator, Lockhart still make a nice one, so do Jagg, I've got a couple of Lockharts in my garage, but I haven't installed one yet. If you do an internet search for "Oil Cooler Bypass valve" you should be able to find some pics.

I like them better than old cooler radiators with internal thermostats like the Derales' of the 1970/80's, same for the ones with the thermostats built into the adapters, there's no real way to test if they're still working. Ok, it's warming up outside, so I better get out in the garage and do some more on my twin engined "Land Speed Record" attempt bicycle. (no shiit, I'm serious!) Cheers, Terry. ;D
I was feeling sorry for myself because I couldn't afford new bike boots, until I met a man with no legs.

So I said, "Hey mate, you haven't got any bike boots you don't need, do you?"

"Crazy is a very misunderstood term, it's a fine line that some of us can lean over and still keep our balance" (thanks RB550Four)

Offline MCRider

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Re: Phaedrus II: CB750 "Super Standard" - Update 12/28 - w/new pics
« Reply #231 on: December 28, 2008, 09:56:59 am »
Three goals for today: Template for oil cooler mount; Plastigauge the new bearings; and check the primary chains.
First, a template for the oil cooler mount. To be bolted to the stock horn mount and hanging down essentially where i was going to mount the cooler anyway. This is how the Phaedrus I cooler was mounted, and a tail hung down below the radiator to mount the horn. I think I saw a close up of Terry's that's how he did it as well. Might have been some one else. I'm switching from a frame welded mount, to maintain flexibility should I decide to upgrade the radiator later.


Next, we plastogauged the new bearings received last week. 2 greens and 3 browns. They were all 5 very consistent and slightly past mid-range for "standard" tolerance. Well below the max tolerance allowed. So they are a go.



Finally, I bought a new primary chain tensioner. Definitely needed, compare old with new:
Old:

New:

Besides the obvious lack of spring tension in the old one, you can see bits of the rubber wheel missing. Shot.
But I have this mental block on buying new chains if unneeded. There is a procedure in the manual for checking chains. If this distance measures less than 70mm then OK to use:

Both the original chains and the parts bike chains measure 66.5+/-. So safe to use. But what's unknown is what do new chains measure? If new chains are 65mm, I'll use the used chains. But if new chains measure 60mm, I'll buy new. Does anyone know? If I don't get an answer soon, I'll buy new, measure and add to the communal data bank.

Now I have a tank full of parts to clean. Then I can fit my cases in the parts cleaner for paint prep.
Good day!
« Last Edit: December 28, 2008, 10:11:40 am by MCRider »
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Ron
1988 NT650 HawkGT;  1978 CB400 Hawk;  1975 CB750F -Free Bird; 1968 CB77 Super Hawk -Ticker;  Phaedrus 1972 CB750K2- Build Thread
"Sometimes the light's all shining on me, other times I can barely see, lately it appears to me, what a long, strange trip its been."

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Re: Phaedrus II: CB750 "Super Standard" - Update 12/28 - w/new pics
« Reply #232 on: December 28, 2008, 10:22:11 am »
In this thread, Clyde indicates new chains measure 65mm. If so, I'll use mine. I have PMd him for confirmation.
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=44253.0
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Ron
1988 NT650 HawkGT;  1978 CB400 Hawk;  1975 CB750F -Free Bird; 1968 CB77 Super Hawk -Ticker;  Phaedrus 1972 CB750K2- Build Thread
"Sometimes the light's all shining on me, other times I can barely see, lately it appears to me, what a long, strange trip its been."

Offline MCRider

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Re: Phaedrus II: CB750 "Super Standard" - Update 12/28 - w/new pics
« Reply #233 on: December 28, 2008, 02:14:08 pm »
Confirmed new chains measure 65mm at the tensioner. I may still go for a second opinion. Anyway the tensioner appears to be the real weak link.
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Ron
1988 NT650 HawkGT;  1978 CB400 Hawk;  1975 CB750F -Free Bird; 1968 CB77 Super Hawk -Ticker;  Phaedrus 1972 CB750K2- Build Thread
"Sometimes the light's all shining on me, other times I can barely see, lately it appears to me, what a long, strange trip its been."

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Re: Phaedrus II: CB750 "Super Standard" - Update 12/28 - w/new pics
« Reply #234 on: December 28, 2008, 04:15:43 pm »
You'll be ok to use the used chains Ron, I know Clyde personally, and he's a perfectionist, so his information will be spot on. I bought new chains when i built my 836cc engine but didn't even think to check the spring tension, bugger!

Your radiator mount looks good, the one on mine is the genuine Lockhart mounting bracket, my preference is to mount it up as high as I can, so as not to block airflow to the head, or reduce access to the spark plugs, so I like the Lockhart mount.

I bought that cooler used, so no horn mount, can you post a pic when you get on to it? That's a nice steering damper mate, and I'm glad you've got it mounted on a welded bracket, some of the guys here a year or so ago were using muffler brackets and clamps, and aesthetically, it was like the engineering equivalent to stepping in dog poo! Of course, it was good enough for the Rickman brothers, but they are English........... Where did you buy your new main bearings from? ;D
I was feeling sorry for myself because I couldn't afford new bike boots, until I met a man with no legs.

So I said, "Hey mate, you haven't got any bike boots you don't need, do you?"

"Crazy is a very misunderstood term, it's a fine line that some of us can lean over and still keep our balance" (thanks RB550Four)

Offline MCRider

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Re: Phaedrus II: CB750 "Super Standard" - Update 12/28 - w/new pics
« Reply #235 on: December 28, 2008, 04:52:17 pm »
You'll be ok to use the used chains Ron, I know Clyde personally, and he's a perfectionist, so his information will be spot on. I bought new chains when i built my 836cc engine but didn't even think to check the spring tension, bugger!

Your radiator mount looks good, the one on mine is the genuine Lockhart mounting bracket, my preference is to mount it up as high as I can, so as not to block airflow to the head, or reduce access to the spark plugs, so I like the Lockhart mount.

I bought that cooler used, so no horn mount, can you post a pic when you get on to it? That's a nice steering damper mate, and I'm glad you've got it mounted on a welded bracket, some of the guys here a year or so ago were using muffler brackets and clamps, and aesthetically, it was like the engineering equivalent to stepping in dog poo! Of course, it was good enough for the Rickman brothers, but they are English........... Where did you buy your new main bearings from? ;D
Thanks T, I'm feeling good about it. And as you can see the tensioner is the weak link. My 50,000 mile chains measure only slightly more than the parts bike which I'm guessing from evidence was sub-20,000miles.

I'm happier with the mount also. The radiator is up high enough to not cover any cooliing fins. On Phaedrus I, the horn was centered right below the radiator and would have covered some fins. The final cooler mount will be a last item, hopefully around target finish date July 4th.

The steering damper is a Dunstall unit, (may have been used by Rickman?), 7 click adjustable, and it had the muffler clamp and while the damper is cool that mount was truly dog poo. :)  The weld-on bracket is a Phaedrus II upgrade.

Got the main bearings from midwestactioncycle.com for 12.22 per shell. After i had ordered I discovered from this site SEVERAL other sources that had them for $9.07: Poop. Here's one.
http://www.hondaparts-direct.com/fiche_select.asp

FYI: I'm selling the rods from Phaedrus I on eBay with a buy it now of $180. They are identical to the ones you bought from me except they are used. All the rods I've sold on eBay went for the buy it now prices so I am too cheap and hope to get more for these.
Ride Safe:
Ron
1988 NT650 HawkGT;  1978 CB400 Hawk;  1975 CB750F -Free Bird; 1968 CB77 Super Hawk -Ticker;  Phaedrus 1972 CB750K2- Build Thread
"Sometimes the light's all shining on me, other times I can barely see, lately it appears to me, what a long, strange trip its been."

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Re: Phaedrus II: CB750 "Super Standard" - Update 01/04- w/o new pics
« Reply #236 on: January 04, 2009, 12:37:15 pm »
A decent week, progress not quite what I wanted. Cleaned many parts that had just been sitting in my parts washer for weeks. Wire brushed hardware, bagged and tagged.

Started an oil pump thread over on SOHC4 forum. That's the next step. Cleaning inspecting and finishing the 2 oil pumps I have to choose from.

Sold some parts on eBay and used the money to buy a shop heater. http://www.heater-home.com/product/DGWH4031.aspx  Can't believe i've waited this long to buy a real heater, been using a pitiful 1500W 110v heater to knock the chill off. The new one should make it tropical. This is the first winter I'm dedicated to making progress on a project. In the past I'd just say its too cold and stay inside.  How many things have I bought for $200 in the last years, anyone of which could have been a decent heater.

But about mid-day Saturday, starting in on the oil pumps, I got hit with a stomach bug that has laid me out...you don't want to know.
« Last Edit: January 04, 2009, 12:40:41 pm by MCRider »
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Ron
1988 NT650 HawkGT;  1978 CB400 Hawk;  1975 CB750F -Free Bird; 1968 CB77 Super Hawk -Ticker;  Phaedrus 1972 CB750K2- Build Thread
"Sometimes the light's all shining on me, other times I can barely see, lately it appears to me, what a long, strange trip its been."

Offline Terry in Australia

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Re: Phaedrus II: CB750 "Super Standard" - Update 01/04- w/o new pics
« Reply #237 on: January 04, 2009, 02:03:46 pm »
Geez, it was 30 deg C in my garage yesterday Ron, I need an air conditioner more than I need a heater, ha ha! Cheers, Terry. ;D
I was feeling sorry for myself because I couldn't afford new bike boots, until I met a man with no legs.

So I said, "Hey mate, you haven't got any bike boots you don't need, do you?"

"Crazy is a very misunderstood term, it's a fine line that some of us can lean over and still keep our balance" (thanks RB550Four)

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Re: Phaedrus II: CB750 "Super Standard" - Update 01/04- w/o new pics
« Reply #238 on: January 04, 2009, 02:15:46 pm »
You lucky bugger Terry, new years day it was 37deg C in brisvegas and over 90% humidity. Can't wait to get the bike on the road, although i am a little worried about putting a helmet on in this heat, my head will shrink. {some think this is a good idea  ;D}


Mick
750 K2 1000cc
750 F1 970cc
750 Bitsa 900cc
If You can't fix it with a hammer, You've got an electrical problem.

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Re: Phaedrus II: CB750 "Super Standard" - Update 01/04- w/o new pics
« Reply #239 on: January 04, 2009, 04:39:53 pm »
Ha ha, yeah mate, we had our coldest December on record apparently, it's been cold and has pisssed down rain most weekends, but yesterday was nice, and today will be warmer yet, so maybe summer has arrived? I better go and re-stock the beer fridge! ;D
I was feeling sorry for myself because I couldn't afford new bike boots, until I met a man with no legs.

So I said, "Hey mate, you haven't got any bike boots you don't need, do you?"

"Crazy is a very misunderstood term, it's a fine line that some of us can lean over and still keep our balance" (thanks RB550Four)

Offline MCRider

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Re: Phaedrus II: CB750 "Super Standard" - Update 01/04- w/o new pics
« Reply #240 on: January 06, 2009, 06:06:12 am »
Geez, it was 30 deg C in my garage yesterday Ron, I need an air conditioner more than I need a heater, ha ha! Cheers, Terry. ;D
What a difference a letter makes: C vs F. I forget its summer down under.

Jan & Feb likely our coldest months. I can get my shop up about 25 degrees from outside temps with what I have. that's OK if its 30 to 55. But when its <25F outside, <50F inside doesn't cut it. I'm warm enough barely, but everything I touch, tools, parts, aerosol cans, etc are COLD.

So I'm looking forward to heat like advertised, hope I'm not disappointed. Should get 335 insulated SF up to 60+F regardless of outside temp. We'll see.
Ride Safe:
Ron
1988 NT650 HawkGT;  1978 CB400 Hawk;  1975 CB750F -Free Bird; 1968 CB77 Super Hawk -Ticker;  Phaedrus 1972 CB750K2- Build Thread
"Sometimes the light's all shining on me, other times I can barely see, lately it appears to me, what a long, strange trip its been."

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Re: Phaedrus II: CB750 "Super Standard" - Update 01/04- w/o new pics
« Reply #241 on: January 06, 2009, 04:34:07 pm »
Ha ha, yeah, to me that's amazing Ron, over here the temps range from as low as maybe 50 deg F in winter, to maybe 110 F in summer, and I live in the "colder climes"? (when I lived in Brisbane, our Army house didn't have a heater at all, and surprisingly, we never needed it!)

I'm always amazed at how folks in the US are still able to function when it's snowing outside, I balk at going outside if it's just raining!

How well does the insulation work in your garage? I'd think you'd lose a lot of heat thru the gaps around your garage doors etc, or are they well sealed too? I do like the look of some of those heaters in your link, I've actually got a gas fired space heater that I (very roughly) converted to LP Gas.

I have an old electric clothes drying cabinet that works great for drying/curing painted parts in winter, and that also warms the garage a tad, although my garage is made from steel, and is not insulated at all. Out of interest, how much is your annual fuel bill to heat your home? Cheers, Terry. ;D

 
I was feeling sorry for myself because I couldn't afford new bike boots, until I met a man with no legs.

So I said, "Hey mate, you haven't got any bike boots you don't need, do you?"

"Crazy is a very misunderstood term, it's a fine line that some of us can lean over and still keep our balance" (thanks RB550Four)

Offline MCRider

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Re: Phaedrus II: CB750 "Super Standard" - Update 01/04- w/o new pics
« Reply #242 on: January 06, 2009, 05:48:12 pm »
Indy isn't as bad as some places and yet they continue to function as well. Minnesota, Wisconsin etc.  Indy is special though being right at the edge of a climate zone, we get occasional real cold winters like Michigan (and occasional mild like Kentucky.)

My insulation should be real good, R25 in the ceiling (80% of loss goes up) R9 in the walls. True I have 1 8ft rollup door and 1 4ft in the shop area, which is doored and walled off from the garage. The edges leak bad, but no more than typical as garages go, should be overcome by a good heater.

My house was built in 1950, pre-insulation. 1600sf above ground, 1000sf "lower level" (basement), all liveable. As a brickfaced CapeCod, very difficult to put insulation in. Utilities are budgeted at $350 per month (gas and electric) Garage/shop are detached but included in that bill. The windows are probably the most obvious weak link for wind penetration and we are replacing them room by room, but only 2 out of 13 so far.

« Last Edit: January 06, 2009, 05:50:36 pm by MCRider »
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1988 NT650 HawkGT;  1978 CB400 Hawk;  1975 CB750F -Free Bird; 1968 CB77 Super Hawk -Ticker;  Phaedrus 1972 CB750K2- Build Thread
"Sometimes the light's all shining on me, other times I can barely see, lately it appears to me, what a long, strange trip its been."

Offline Ichiban 4

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Re: Phaedrus II: CB750 "Super Standard" - Update 01/04- w/o new pics
« Reply #243 on: January 07, 2009, 01:39:14 am »
Hey Ron..

Talking about shop insulation, etc..

a few years ago I retro-insulated mine with R-17 in the walls..and about R-30 in the (10 ft.) ceilings.  May sound like a lot..but I just overlayed layers of fiberglass batting..especially in the ceiling..to get it.  And it wasn't too expensive.  About $400.00 for the insulation for a 25 X 35 ft.(875 sq ft.) space..if memory serves. The overhead-overkill..is what's helped the most I believe.

Anyway..before the insulation (it was basically a pole-barn shell w/concrete floors)..I couldn't keep it warm with a 50K BTU heater..just above freezing in winter (yeah..it was warm next to the heater..but the entire space was never warm).  After the insulation..I can keep the whole thing @ about 60 F with 2-1500 Watt (110 Volt) milk-house type heaters..or a toasty warm 75+ F with a 30K BTU (220 volt-30 amp) heater..when I have paint, etc. to dry..or want to "feel" what I'm doing with my tools.

The only drawback with the "toasty warm" setting is that it costs about $200.00+ per month..to keep it that way.  Hence..my fall back milk-house heater option..to keep things from freezing/getting too cold..which costs about $75.00 per month to keep warm.  I've more than saved the initial cost of installing the insulation..from the reduced energy/electric bills.  BTW: it can get -20 below here in Northern Colorado in winter time..though I believe your cold spells/periods last longer.  I still have an uninsulated roll-up door also.  Boy..you can really feel the cold right by the door!  That's gotta be the next and final insulation project for my shop. (My house's 2-roll up garage doors are insulated..and it makes a big difference in helping to keep the garage warm(er).  Good windows really help.  The house is R-11 triple glazed/argon filled.  The shop is just single glazed (R-whatever) old-school.  But..they don't seem too bad with all of the other insulating stuff in the walls and ceiling.

I'm not sure how best to insulate cinder block walls (from your pics..it looks like your shop is block walled).  I lived and worked in them for years in California..but it never got as cold there..as here.  I've seen people here either filling the blocks with urethane foam (have to knock access holes in blocks here and there)..and/or sheathing the walls (interior or exterior) with Styrofoam..then overlayed with drywall or siding.  Guess that's a bigger deal than mine was with basically stuffing the open wall cavities..then drywalling. However..it seems like you've checked out the possibilities pretty thoroughly in what you've done already.

I strongly encourage anyone contemplating insulating their shop..in cold winter climates..to go for it.  It's sooo nice to be able to work in a warm shop.  And it more than pays for itself over the longer run.  Your shop looks much neater than mine though Ron.  Although with melting beeswax and honey packing going on in mine..shifting back and forth to mechanical work..I just have to accept that it looks messy @ times.

Cheers,

Al / Ichi
Al Summers

Present: '77 550K
Past: '73 CB450(twin), '72 CB175, '68 CB350, '58 Ariel Square 4 (1000cc), '58 Matchless Typhoon (650cc single), Whizzer Motorbikes '48 -'55 (Pacemaker & Sportsman)..Vespa, Lambretta scooters..etc.

Offline MCRider

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Re: Phaedrus II: CB750 "Super Standard" - Update 01/04- w/o new pics
« Reply #244 on: January 07, 2009, 04:13:44 am »
Thanks for the info. You've got me beat, but I think I'm pretty well covered. Except, how does one insulate a rollup door? I might be able to windproof the corners more, but the fabric itself can't be any thicker thanit is or it won't rollup.

My R25 in the ceiling is R19 bat covered with R6 foam with the silver side down. This was recommended to me as a substitute for drywall, I'm so glad I did it that way.

Since my shop area was built new about 5 years ago, we (contractor) insulated the block walls with Perlite. A pour in insulation which fills everything. In a 8 inch block the result is an R9 +/-.

"Expanded Perlite Use in Construction Applications
Because of perlite's outstanding insulating character-
istics and light weight, it is widely used as a loose-fill insulation in masonry construction. In this application, free-flowing perlite loose-fill masonry insulation is poured into the cavities of concrete block
where it completely fills all cores, crevices, mortar
areas and ear holes. In addition to providing thermal
insulation, perlite enhances fire ratings, reduces
noise transmission and it is rot, vermin and termite
resistant perlite is also ideal for insulating low temperature and cryogenic vessels."

If one can get to the top course of their block wall they can pour it in existing construction. Because of its light weight to strength ratio, it doesn't settle over time. Its very small round spheres of glass I think. Wasn't too expensive either.

With only a 1500W heater and the 2- 500W floodlights, I've been able to keep it warm enough for most chores till now. But for this project I want comfort.
« Last Edit: January 07, 2009, 04:20:31 am by MCRider »
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1988 NT650 HawkGT;  1978 CB400 Hawk;  1975 CB750F -Free Bird; 1968 CB77 Super Hawk -Ticker;  Phaedrus 1972 CB750K2- Build Thread
"Sometimes the light's all shining on me, other times I can barely see, lately it appears to me, what a long, strange trip its been."

Offline Ichiban 4

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Re: Phaedrus II: CB750 "Super Standard" - Update 01/04- w/o new pics
« Reply #245 on: January 07, 2009, 11:45:07 pm »
Hi Ron..

The Perlite thing is interesting.  I'd never thought of that..but it makes complete sense.  There's a Perlite plant just a few miles down the road from where I live.  I believe that it's a form of mica..which is naturally occuring.  They mine it here..much the same as with other minerals like gypsum, cement, etc. I knew that they used it for horticultural things (like fillers/lighteners in potting soil mixes, etc.). Seems like a better idea than Urethane foam actually.  The foam has issues with out-gassing possible carcinogenic fumes..I'm told.

But..as you mentioned..the overhead insulation seems to be all-important..like about 80% of heat goes up and out that way..if not adequately insulated.  That sure was the case with my situation..and greatly improved upon it.

Regarding the heater thing: I've found it a radical improvement to get the 220 volt 30 amp heater..over the smaller 1500 watt 110 volt models.  You simply can't generate the BTU's with 110 volts and small wattages..I've found.  It takes an hour or longer to get things appreciably warmed with the small units..only a few minutes with the 220 volt unit.  I use the big one to get things warm initially..then cut back to the smaller units to keep things stable.  It works well.

I was thinking that you must have a 220 volt outlet for some of your equipment (?).  My outlet is the same as what I use for my welder..other heavy duty equipment.  I got my big heater from Grainger's several years ago..they still sell it: Model 3VU36 $134.60..19,110 BTU's (not 30K..sorry) 220 V 23 amps (on 30 amp breaker).  It only weighs about 16 lbs..and is completely portable. Only caveat being not to keep it on (it has it's own thermostat though) all the time..or your jaw will drop when you get your electric bill.  It sure is nice to sit down @ your bench..with everything comfortably warm to handle and work on Ron..as I'm sure you know.

About the roll-up door insulation: mine are not true roll-up I guess..more like overhead-segmented.  So..there are bolt on units that can be attached to the respective panels..which I'm considering.  I like the foam/flexible units best..that apparently don't have any gaps to leak cold air.  Guess it's not quite so simple with an actual roll-up..that coils on itself when up..right?  All the surfaces @ sides, top and bottom are gasketed/weather stripped of course.  I wonder if it would be practical to fab-up a panel of Styrofoam sheeting to snap-on..or Velcro to the inside of the roll-up door..when it's down?  I just find myself "skooching" everything away from the door in cold weather..if I'm going to work on it.

Well..originally being a "Southern California Boy" (30+ years ago)..it's taken me years to adapt and learn to function well during the colder weather.  Guess I still haven't completely adapted.  But my shop(s) and office are my sanctuary @ times..especially during the cold weather.  It's been a slow kinda "duh" process for me..I really love having a warm, year round space to work and tinker in though.

Later,

Al / Ichi
« Last Edit: January 07, 2009, 11:52:44 pm by Ichiban 4 »
Al Summers

Present: '77 550K
Past: '73 CB450(twin), '72 CB175, '68 CB350, '58 Ariel Square 4 (1000cc), '58 Matchless Typhoon (650cc single), Whizzer Motorbikes '48 -'55 (Pacemaker & Sportsman)..Vespa, Lambretta scooters..etc.

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Re: Phaedrus II: CB750 "Super Standard" - Update 01/04- w/o new pics
« Reply #246 on: January 08, 2009, 05:32:22 am »
The Perlite was recommended tpo me by my contractor. He prefers building with block, I had supposed a frame garage. I mentioned "what about insulating?" and he told me.

I don't have any 220v tools. When the electric service went in I had a 220 stubbed out for the heater, just never bought it.  The adjacent 2 car garage area has a 5000watt 17,000 BTU Dayton heater (also from Graingers)  which is just barley enough for the garage (which is insulated as well, but has high open attic) and its heat will just barely affect the shop area. Very inefficient. Now I'll be able to leave the garage cold and heat the shop, which though under the same roof, is walled off, smaller, separate space.

Yes, mine are true rollup doors. So no insulation on the fabric. What you suggest for the overhead door I've seen done and should work well. I am considering a removable "blanket" for my doors as I don't use them much in the winter. Especially for the 4 footer which is closest to the workspace. If the new heater can overpower the door leaks, I likely won't worry about it too much, as I'm just there 5 to 10 hours per week.

Feeling better, taking about 5 days to shake this stomach bug. Hope to get back to work this weekend.
Ride Safe:
Ron
1988 NT650 HawkGT;  1978 CB400 Hawk;  1975 CB750F -Free Bird; 1968 CB77 Super Hawk -Ticker;  Phaedrus 1972 CB750K2- Build Thread
"Sometimes the light's all shining on me, other times I can barely see, lately it appears to me, what a long, strange trip its been."

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Re: Phaedrus II: CB750 "Super Standard" - Update 01/04- w/o new pics
« Reply #247 on: January 08, 2009, 08:15:03 pm »
About the Stomach bug thing: have you tried using activated charcoal tablets (available @ most local drugstores) initially..to absorb the bacterial culprits.  Then follow up with lots of Acidophilus AND Bifidus (Bifidus especially..if the problem is mainly lower GI stuff).  Most health food stores (Vitamin Cottage..Whole Foods) carry these probiotic products..in their refrigerated sections.

I've used these remedies for years.  And even with the most persistent and nasty of cases..it clears it up in about two days.  If you haven't tried..you might check it out.  Think you'll wonder why you had to put up with the protracted GI stuff all these years.

Wasn't clear on whether or not you have..or intend to use a 220 volt heater for your shop.  Understood the part about the unit you have for your garage.  The unit I mentioned previously..is more efficient than what you described (remember..that they really eat the electricity..if left on for extended periods though).

Keep warm..take care.  Looking forward to your future Phaedrus II posts.

Al
Al Summers

Present: '77 550K
Past: '73 CB450(twin), '72 CB175, '68 CB350, '58 Ariel Square 4 (1000cc), '58 Matchless Typhoon (650cc single), Whizzer Motorbikes '48 -'55 (Pacemaker & Sportsman)..Vespa, Lambretta scooters..etc.

Offline MCRider

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Re: Phaedrus II: CB750 "Super Standard" - Update 01/04- w/o new pics
« Reply #248 on: January 09, 2009, 02:38:20 am »
About the Stomach bug thing: have you tried using activated charcoal tablets (available @ most local drugstores) initially..to absorb the bacterial culprits.  Then follow up with lots of Acidophilus AND Bifidus (Bifidus especially..if the problem is mainly lower GI stuff).  Most health food stores (Vitamin Cottage..Whole Foods) carry these probiotic products..in their refrigerated sections.

I've used these remedies for years.  And even with the most persistent and nasty of cases..it clears it up in about two days.  If you haven't tried..you might check it out.  Think you'll wonder why you had to put up with the protracted GI stuff all these years.

Wasn't clear on whether or not you have..or intend to use a 220 volt heater for your shop.  Understood the part about the unit you have for your garage.  The unit I mentioned previously..is more efficient than what you described (remember..that they really eat the electricity..if left on for extended periods though).

Keep warm..take care.  Looking forward to your future Phaedrus II posts.

Al
You know, I've known of the remedies you speak. But this being only my second such bout in 30+ years it wasn't front of mind. I just OD on immodium, pepto and a bland diet. I think I'm better now. I'll keep your advice and hopefully never use it.

Yes the new heater will be 220v, 4000w, 13650btu. supposedly sufficient for my 350sf space, expected delivery today. Funny how it has become my obsession. But without it, project likely stalls. Sick in bed, its the next step so on my mind. Hopefully install goes easily and its back to work. Sub-freezing temps for the weekend.

Ride Safe:
Ron
1988 NT650 HawkGT;  1978 CB400 Hawk;  1975 CB750F -Free Bird; 1968 CB77 Super Hawk -Ticker;  Phaedrus 1972 CB750K2- Build Thread
"Sometimes the light's all shining on me, other times I can barely see, lately it appears to me, what a long, strange trip its been."

Offline Ichiban 4

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Re: Phaedrus II: CB750 "Super Standard" - Update 01/04- w/o new pics
« Reply #249 on: January 09, 2009, 10:52:51 pm »
Okay..cool Ron..

Sounds like things are coming together..health and shop wise.  Let's hear how the new heater works out..especially with sub-freezing temps you mentioned.

Al
Al Summers

Present: '77 550K
Past: '73 CB450(twin), '72 CB175, '68 CB350, '58 Ariel Square 4 (1000cc), '58 Matchless Typhoon (650cc single), Whizzer Motorbikes '48 -'55 (Pacemaker & Sportsman)..Vespa, Lambretta scooters..etc.