Author Topic: Phaedrus: CB750 RestoMod - Update: 09/23/21 w/ new video (Read 868780 times)

mcuozzo · « **Reply #250 on:** January 11, 2009, 03:09:27 PM »

Ron,

Hope you are feeling better.

If you haven't tried your new heater here's some encouraging news.

I recently bought a new Dayton 19K btu heater http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/items/3VU36(from grainger for $157 including 7% nj sales tax).

I have a 450 sq garage/workshop. Two barn style garage doors. I've close one semi-permanently and insulated it. Rest of the shop is sheet rock + r17, attic is insulated similarly. Plus I have a separate door for an entrance and an exhaust fan, both of which leak pretty badly (gonna work on that next!!!).

Previously I was able to raise the temp about 14 degrees and it took an hour. I used the combo of 3 1500w space heaters (craigslist specials!!!) and a electric house oven (used for powder coating).

I wired up the new heater and was able to raise the temp 28 degrees in 35 minutes (from 28 to 56). That was with the new heater alone. I then turned everything on and at last check the temp was 66.4 degrees inside and 29 degrees outside. That's a comfy 37+ degree rise in temp. I'm hoping with a little insulating I can get a 45 degree change in temp.

Just in time for the upcoming artic blast! Supposed to be in the teens next weekend. So 15 plus 45=60. Sounds cozy.

Good luck and stay warm.

Terry in Australia · « **Reply #251 on:** January 12, 2009, 08:05:24 PM »

Well, opposite side of the coin here men, 36 deg C (97 deg F) as I type this, and it'll be hotter tomorrow! Oh well, the beer's nice and cold....................

MCRider · « **Reply #252 on:** January 13, 2009, 12:15:01 PM »

Quote from: Terry in Australia on January 12, 2009, 08:05:24 PM

Well, opposite side of the coin here men, 36 deg C (97 deg F) as I type this, and it'll be hotter tomorrow! Oh well, the beer's nice and cold....................

Poor poor pitiful you! We're heading into -0 F for the next several days. My heater is a semi disappointment. No question its better than I had. And the stream of heat blows across the length of the toolbox/workbench combo which is comfy. But the ceiling height (13' sloping to 9') and overall space is just too big for what I bought. I climbed a ladder to put some things away on a top shelf and it was warm up there.

But I reel from heating unused space. Most of my shop is just storage. So I'd rather string up a curtain than buy any bigger heater.

MCRider · « **Reply #253 on:** January 13, 2009, 12:23:02 PM »

I had to shuffle some printers in my home office and I inadvertantly lost the ability to offload pictures from my camera. So until I get that fixed...

I got my oil pumps apart. One from Phaedrus I, with many racing miles and touring miles, and one from a parts bike, I suspected less than 20K miles. It was easy to check them per the manual with feeler gauges. Further discussion here. http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=44821.0
No point in repeating what's already been said.

I stripped and cleaned some parts from eBay purchases, bagged and tagged. Got a rotor that has been aggressively lightened, and I have a picture but will share later. I won't be using it, too cut down to be confident in its use for generating electricity. Thought you all would like to see it though.

Terry in Australia · « **Reply #254 on:** January 13, 2009, 03:58:07 PM »

Yeah I'd like to see it Ron, I want to either lighten one of my rotors, or try modifying one from a smaller bike to fit.

I'm sure Rex Wolfendon (TRex Racing) told me that he uses CB400N rotors in his CB750 based road bikes, as they're about half the physical size and weight as a CB750's, and allow him to cut down the alternator cover for way more cornering clearance?

Suzuki GS1000 rotors look like they'll work too, once again, smaller and lighter, but I don't have a spare at the moment to try out. Cheers, Terry.

Retro Rocket · « **Reply #255 on:** January 13, 2009, 04:33:53 PM »

Keep us all updated on the lightened rotors Terry.....

Mick

Terry in Australia · « **Reply #256 on:** January 13, 2009, 04:44:46 PM »

Ha ha, sometimes I can't get over how "thick" I am Mick, I have a wreckers not far from here who I don't think would mind if I rummaged through his collection of rotors and stators? Oh well, I might take the K0 for a ride over there on Saturday morning and see what I can find. Cheers, Terry.

Retro Rocket · « **Reply #257 on:** January 13, 2009, 04:45:49 PM »

Couldn't see the forest for the tree's eh....

Mick

MCRider · « **Reply #258 on:** January 13, 2009, 05:12:40 PM »

Quote from: Terry in Australia on January 13, 2009, 04:44:46 PM

Ha ha, sometimes I can't get over how "thick" I am Mick, I have a wreckers not far from here who I don't think would mind if I rummaged through his collection of rotors and stators? Oh well, I might take the K0 for a ride over there on Saturday morning and see what I can find. Cheers, Terry.

I have a 78 CB400T, I don't think the N is a US model. But the CB750 alternator is 3 pieces, the exciter field bolted to the center of the cover, the rotor, and the stator. The 400 is a 2 piece and my 400 rotor isn't anywhere close to the type to replace the 750's.

The whole 400 system would be really cool to graft into a racer kick only 750. It has the appearance on the outside of the CR750 alternator, thin cover and all.

I don't know much, but I really can't imagine how the 400 rotor alone could work in a 750, unless its a full system graft. I've heard speculation my whole life of how a CB350 alternator can be made to work, but never saw one. The achilles heel would have to be the cover.

But with all the talent I've seen around here, I can't imagine that's a hold up. Seems one would cut off the lower part of the 750 cover where the screws are and weld the top or outside part of the, lets say 400, cover on to it.

But go look and let us know what you find. It is an ongoing discussion and could use some more resolution.

MCRider · « **Reply #259 on:** January 13, 2009, 05:27:53 PM »

My computer tech (my nephew) is getting me a "card reader" to offload my pictures. He'll put it in this weekend. I feel helpless without sharing pictures. $:-\$

Terry in Australia · « **Reply #260 on:** January 13, 2009, 08:07:38 PM »

Sorry Ron, I should have clarified that, I meant that I believe Rex uses the whole CB400 charging system, well at least, the alternator and stator, and certainly cuts down the alternator cover, that being half the reason for the conversion in the first place, for better cornering clearance. Cheers, Terry.

MCRider · « **Reply #261 on:** January 13, 2009, 11:50:35 PM »

Quote from: Terry in Australia on January 13, 2009, 08:07:38 PM

Sorry Ron, I should have clarified that, I meant that I believe Rex uses the whole CB400 charging system, well at least, the alternator and stator, and certainly cuts down the alternator cover, that being half the reason for the conversion in the first place, for better cornering clearance. Cheers, Terry.

Ah, now that sounds cool and doable! It would look for all the world like a CR system. You'd lose the electric start, but so did the CR.

I would need help with the electrics, but if one had a sacrificial 400, one could lift the harness and modify it as necesary.

Retro Rocket · « **Reply #262 on:** January 14, 2009, 11:28:53 PM »

This might be a silly question but why do you need to do away with the electric start..?

Mick

MCRider · « **Reply #263 on:** January 15, 2009, 05:44:59 AM »

Quote from: retro rocket on January 14, 2009, 11:28:53 PM

This might be a silly question but why do you need to do away with the electric start..?

Mick

The CB750 starter clutch is a fairly integral part of the alternator rotor. Or at least it bolts to the rotor, so if you change the rotor you lose the platform for the starter clutch.

A little tangent to your question:
If you use the CB750 rotor and lighten it to the extreme you lose a part of the rotor that surrounds the starter clutch giving it some support. I ran mine unsupported for many years but upon disassembly one can see where the clutch was trying to come apart but it never did.

Retro Rocket · « **Reply #264 on:** January 15, 2009, 03:41:56 PM »

Thanks MC..

Mick

MCRider · « **Reply #265 on:** January 18, 2009, 06:22:13 PM »

I got my 5 hours in. No pics yet as I am still without the means to take pictures from camera to my computer. A new card reader is on its way. Bought some oil pumps on eBay. Added some to the "oil pump" thread in SOHC4 forum. Link also about 12 posts back in this thread. I was able to get the screen off a pump per suggestion of Kevin. I thought it was impossible. Use tiny screwdrivers and pry like it was a tire. Small deformation of the perimeter but definitely re usable. But all the pumps show wear and pitting in the rotors. Guess that's the way it is. New pumps are unavailable from Honda.

Got the frame and swingarm loaded in the van finally to go to machine shop Monday. Long list of mods to be made along with those already made. I'm only about 6 months late, but the delay allowed me to make some final adjustments I'm happy about. Once its done it goes to the powercoater (swingarm to Brown's Plating, then to HondaMan for bushings) and then no more changes.

I'd like to come to some conclusion on what I'll do for an oil pump. Seems each week its a different obsession. This week, its oil pumps. Guess I'll use the best of the parts I have, clean it well and reinstall. If HondaMan decides to make refurbs, I can always replace it later.

MCRider · « **Reply #266 on:** January 22, 2009, 01:30:43 PM »

Took the frame, swingarm and gastank in to machine shop Wednesday. Got the tank and swingarm back today! Excited. They are about 2/3 done with the frame. "We're not just tanks (or radiators) anymore" http://www.saldanaracingproducts.com/ They'll fab anything you want. Prefer to work in aluminum, but doing a great job on my steel bits. Special "motorcycle guy" on staff has made exhausts, grafted wheels, all kinds of stuff. I'll use them on next cafe racer project for sure.

So I got to get them some bits to finish the frame. I was expecting 2 to 3 week wait. Frame may be done by Monday.

Swingarm (rear axle and other bits) goes to Brown's Plating http://www.brownsplating.com/chrome_direct.php
next week. They have a 5 to 7 day shop turn around time right now.

Then to HondaMan for bushings.

When frame's done, I'll have to hand sand as much as necessary, then it goes to powder coater. Metallic Gold I think.

Step by step!

MCRider · « **Reply #267 on:** January 23, 2009, 09:21:24 PM »

Wow, got my frame back from the machine shop www.Saldanaracingproducts.com today! Everything done. Steering Damper mount removed and repositioned so both fork stops hit. Removable gussets under steering head, engine guards made to look as though the bike came that way, passenger peg mounts made permanent at racey angle.

Very happy with work. Love those "stack of coins" welds. I'll have some pictures this weekend. Wasn't expecting 3 day turnaround. I took a lot of time off work going back and forth, so I'll only have an hour Sunday AM to make pictures and post progress here.

Want to put in a plug for Saldana, especially for those of us in Central Indiana. They are looking to build the "one-off" business as time filler to their production work. Keep their guys busy and give them some variety. I know Keith Wagoner the owner for years, but he doesn't do any of the work, runs the office. The workers especially Robert the "motorcycle guy", took a special interest and that is comforting. He has raced AMA sportbikes and is currently ice racing a 600cc rotax.

I think it was someone here who said if you're going to have someone else work on your project find someone who takes a personal interest in your goal. That's what I felt.

So if you can sketch out your part, cut a template from cardboard, or otherwise communicate it to them, they'll make it. It's $60 hr, time and materials. I pay retail, don't get any special treatment, never ask for it as I don't want to feel constrained if I have to complain.

For Phaedrus II, they will make a sexy aluminum chainguard, and an oil cooler mount next. On my next project, I'll have them make an oil tank, which is their specialty, and help me downsize the rear brake on my CB750F (what a hunk of metal) and help with my rearsets.

Step by step.

mystic_1 · « **Reply #268 on:** January 23, 2009, 09:55:57 PM »

Quote from: MCRider on January 23, 2009, 09:21:24 PM

I'll have some pictures this weekend.

You're killing us, Ron!

mystic_1

Ecosse · « **Reply #269 on:** January 23, 2009, 10:00:45 PM »

Quote from: mystic_1 on January 23, 2009, 09:55:57 PM

Quote from: MCRider on January 23, 2009, 09:21:24 PM
I'll have some pictures this weekend.

You're killing us, Ron!

mystic_1

+1

glad to hear your satisfaction with the work done to your project. and i like that comment about outsourced work having a personal interest. food for thought.

FunJimmy · « **Reply #270 on:** January 23, 2009, 10:08:16 PM »

Awesome project Ron.
Can't wait to see pictures of your latest progress.

FJ

MCRider · « **Reply #271 on:** January 25, 2009, 01:10:55 PM »

This is going to take about 3 posts to get caught up. First is the oil pump. Lots of info at this thread: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=44821.0
I was able to get the screen off with little deformation: Pry as suggested by Kevin D. Use small jeweler screwdrivers, pry as though it were a tire. The rubber ring has a lip which fits into a groove in the pump body, so you have to pry hard enough to get that lip out, then it comes fairly easily. Didn't accomplish much except for cleaning and inspection and to know I can do it. i won't be taking the body apart.

Here's where the feeler gauge goes: They all were between 3 and 5 thou. Max allowed 7 thou.

Here's what the rotors look like: Fairly large pits in all leading edges except in Phaedrus I pump. I attribute this to many oil changes in Phaedrus I and none in the parts bike pumps.

Bottom line is: Use the best used one available and put a gauge on to monitor it. I'm thinking of putting the rotor sets back in backwards. The leading edge of the internal rotors has the pits. If flipped around the pristine trailing edge becomes the leading edge. Then replace all possible o rings and the one seal. Clean and reinstall until HondaMan comes up with further refurbs.

MCRider · « **Reply #272 on:** January 25, 2009, 01:52:20 PM »

We had a rotor thread going in SOHC4. http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=44685.0
I thought I had an old heavy stocker, a lighter factory stocker, and my lightened rotor.
What i thought was the later, lighter stocker appears to have been lightened by the PO. The starter clutch had been obviously removed. The rotor has holes init like swiss cheeze and has No lip left for the starter clutch. Weights: left to right
Heavy stocker: (allowing for the starter clutch which i could not get off...yet) 6lbs.
Phaedrus I: 3lbs
Parts bike: 3 lbs.

edge view: Note the main thing is to get rid of that flywheel flange. In doing so you lose the backstop for the starter clutch, but I never had a problem in many years/miles.

Front view:

You'll notice all the holes in the far right. Somebody went nuts. Yet it weighs the same or imperceptibly less than the center Phaedrus rotor. The center rotor had a taper put on the center lug, and a chamfer on the front and rear edges. removing material this way equalled the holes I guess.

Its often been asked how to get those darned rotors off. Often its not easy. For perspective, here's how much leverage it took, although with that lever it was easy. Crank is clamped in a vice.

My guess would be that the lighter factory rotor in the later CB750s weighs 3.5 to 4 lbs. Quite a bit less than the early models, but not as light as those done by private labels. But the mystery remains.

MCRider · « **Reply #273 on:** January 25, 2009, 02:20:21 PM »

Now for the frame: Repositioned the damper mount so it was more in the plane of the lower tree, but more importantly, to allow for the lower tree to hit the fork stops left and right. The machinist missed this the first time. Redo for free.

right stop

left stop

right front engine guard welded to right front motor mount

Right front motor mount lugs tapped from 8mm bolt and nut to a 10mm thread into the frame. back side of the mount lugs filled and ground smooth.

Left Engine Guard modified and lug added to frame for solid mount (stock mount used a "U" bolt affair.

Removable frame gussets. I would have preferred these were permanent, but the ancient APE frame rail kit had already been installed. It appears the new style Frame Rail kit from Gordon will allow these front gussets to be welded in permanent.

Rear footpeg lugs welded permanent to frame.

Set an an angle to match the adjacent frame rail, for looks sake.

(Upside down view) Original brake arm was on the left side the left flange. In anticipation of a wider rear tire, moved the brake arm to the right side of the flange, removed the far left flange and welded replacement to the right side of brake arm, result moves brake arm away from the tire by about 1/4 inch, plenty of room now for widest tire.

Chainguard tabs removed where pointing, and the rear mount reduced in size

Now I have to reconcentrate on making a living. So progress will slow. Sand and smooth frame prep for powder coat. Send swingarm out for chrome and to HondaMan for bushings.

Step by step.

mrbreeze · « **Reply #274 on:** January 25, 2009, 02:42:38 PM »

Its all looking good Ron!!!You are doing alot of things that I would like to do in the future.Especially putting Gordon's kit in and addressing rear end(wider tire,rear footpeg/exhaust brackets). Glad you got your camera going and it should be a motivater for me to also start popping some pics.

News:

Author Topic: Phaedrus: CB750 RestoMod - Update: 09/23/21 w/ new video (Read 868780 times)