Author Topic: Phaedrus: CB750 RestoMod - Update: 09/23/21 w/ new video (Read 868640 times)

MCRider · « **Reply #450 on:** April 28, 2009, 05:28:54 PM »

Thanks, I'm more than half hoping the blaster will opt to soda for the cleanliness. But I'll take their recommendation. If not you can bet I'll be scrubbing and rinsing. Your warning is not lost on me.

MCRider · « **Reply #451 on:** April 29, 2009, 09:35:06 AM »

So I get to the blasters www.IDSblast.com (used to be Indy Dry Strip). Very nice place as opposed to the RediStrip place I went yesterday, pretty much a dump.

Gave them 3 sets of cases, 2 oilpans, a cylinder block. Said $75 to $100. Fair to me. Take about a week.

Said their soda blaster is like a 2 inch hose and would blow those parts across the room. So they likely use their plastic media. I left it up to them.

Said the soda requires thourough cleaning as well as it packs into crevices and blind holes. So I wouldn't get away from cleaning them, either way.

No short cuts.

mystic_1 · « **Reply #452 on:** April 29, 2009, 10:51:05 AM »

TANSTAAFL

mystic_1

MCRider · « **Reply #453 on:** April 29, 2009, 06:00:20 PM »

Yup.

On a different subject...

I got my swingarm back from HondaMan today. Not a lot to see, especially to an untrained eye. But I know what I have. High quality bronze bushings, hand fitted to my arm by a competent machinist, and a proper way to keep them lubricated.

At a very reasonable price.

I'm a happy camper.

MCRider · « **Reply #454 on:** April 30, 2009, 08:43:20 AM »

Frame and motor mounts are done! Gotta go check it out and pick it up if all's well.

Plastic beading of engine cases done, $63 total! Can't get over there till next week.

But if i can get the frame back, we can start some final mockups pre-powder on Sunday.

psyched.

mystic_1 · « **Reply #455 on:** April 30, 2009, 08:54:16 AM »

Very exciting. You're almost to the point of bolting things to each other permanently

mystic_1

MCRider · « **Reply #456 on:** April 30, 2009, 02:02:02 PM »

Quote from: mystic_1 on April 30, 2009, 08:54:16 AM

Very exciting. You're almost to the point of bolting things to each other permanently

mystic_1

Yup, step by step. But its still going to take time. As the proprietor of the machine shop said, its important to mock it up over and over to catch the details. As he said, if I have it powdered then bring it back for an alteration, they'll make a real mess out of it.

I picked up the frame. Its so good to know my machinist can make the elusive custom stainless steel motor mount bolts. "No Prob" to them, magic to me. Of course Rob (Voxonda) made the rear upper, and that got me to thinking...

The rear lower where the footpegs mount is really sweet, nice and tight, and we honed out the footpegs to match.

The lower front turns out the lugs on the frame weren't very true from the factory, from one side to the other. The rear lower was spot on.

So, if someone was to be real anal about it, one would have to line bore the lugs first, then make the mount bolts.

Nonetheless mine are now tighter than anyone else's. Learn for the next one. Pictures this weekend.

I may have to hone/drill the cases just a smidge. I'll try to get them from the blasters tomorrow.

MCRider · « **Reply #457 on:** May 04, 2009, 04:54:57 PM »

Got my time in and then some. Running all around town dropping things off, then picking them up. First incase anyone ever wondered, sometimes my shop gets trashed:

Cases plastic beaded, parts cannibalized and sold, frame back from shop, bucket of solvent for parts washer etc.
Bot some stuff from Classiccyclecity.com
Chrome locking Dipstick (saw it had to have it)

SS Braid Oil Lines. Crimped on variety.

Got the frame back from machinist. New brake pedal stop

Drilled out the removable frame gusset to hold the ignition switch:

Welded Steering head gusset to the downtubes.

I had ground and smoothed the welds as far as i could, asked "Bob" the motorcycle guy what else might he do. He said he'd add a bead of weld on every joint. Looks like a smile:

So we mocked up the new SS motor mount bolts. They fit in the frame very snug,

but the machinist reminded me to check the engine. Even though I drilled both side of the crankcases, the bolt won't pass thru as with those close tolerances the lugs in the cases aren't true to each other side to side. So another trip to the machinist to line bore the bottom of the cases.
The shot-peen shop called and said my kick start shafts are done. Wish I could find a heat treater as well.
I'll be selling one set of cases, stripped, studs removed and beaded, ready for paint and a big bore build up, anyone interested? I'll sell one of the KS shafts as well, necessary (sort of) for a kick only motor.

Next picture will be of a cleaned up shop.

Step by step.

MCRider · « **Reply #458 on:** May 08, 2009, 08:11:22 AM »

Mid-week update:
I took the cases back to the machine shop. They reamed the lower motor mount holes in line. Now the SS bolts pass through the frame with a friction fit, and through the engine with a friction fit. So with essentially 8 passages that all have to line up (4 on the frame, 4 on the engine) I was a little anxious. But upon testing the bolts pass through all passages together with just the slightest of tapping with a ruber mallet. The other motor mounts are much tighter than stock, but have more flexibility as they have removable plates etc.

Pictures can't show the result. But for those who know, if you put a stock 750 motor in the frame with the bottom 2 motor mount bolts, you can stick a lever between the motor and the frame and the engine willmove quite a bit. Now, it can't move...at all. Sure its overkill for a street bike. But it's something I've always wanted, hand fit stainless steel motor mounts. The only thing better would have been if I could have done them in Ti. At about $1,000 each, I had to compromise.

I took the other sets of cases at the same time. The one for the Rat Cafe (next project) had a cracked motor mount.

The PO had an accident. The frame rail was bent near this mount. I figure he must have slid it into a curb. They ground it down in a V and welded it up. Then reamed the holes in prep for the same SS engine mount bolt treatment as Phaedrus.

The second set I had bought off ebay. Unknown to me at the time it had a broken stud in the front right hole. It was broken near flush with case. I've removed them before but its a b--ch, so I asked the machinist what he would do. They said weld a rod to the top of the stud. Then heat the case and turn it out. (I had already soaked it for days). It worked fairly quickly, but took a lot of heat and torque.

These case have been blasted on the exterior, ready for a wipe down and paint, and studs are removed in prep for HD studs. I'll wash out the insides with a power washer and the holes by hand then they will be for sale. Any interest?

Now that the engine mounts are sorted, and all frame mods complete, I may be ready for powder. I'll spend Sunday AM with a final inspection, and if i can't turn anything up, we may get to the PCers next week. Yikes!

A plug for my machinist, sample of his work: radiator parts for sprint cars:

Custom size radiator for drag racer in AZ

Personally, I'm not a technical judge. But to my untrained eye, it looks purdy.

Ecosse · « **Reply #459 on:** May 08, 2009, 01:46:06 PM »

i'll agree with you on that; nice work imo.

MCRider · « **Reply #460 on:** May 11, 2009, 01:19:16 PM »

Better than i could ever do for sure.

Speaking of motor mounts, I was scrolling through MEC's DIY EGLI and ran across this: about halfway down page 1: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=44736.0
Titanium. Sigh.

Anyway, mine line up OK, through the frame and engine, with a friction fit. But on a whim I thought to spin some nuts on them. And ...the nuts go on, the pitch is correct, but they turn really hard. This shouldn't be. So back to the machinist. He cut the threads on with his lathe I think, I sure don't understand how that works. But nevertheless, they are too tight and I'm sure he can fix it.

No pictures this week. Tidied up some details, cut it short for the Mother's Day festivities.

Got 3 Kick Starter shafts Shot Peened locally. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shot_peening From what I understand, by peening the surface you reduce the ability of a crack to form. RC Engineering used to sell a shot peened, heat treated shafts for his kick only engines. The stock shaft broke on occasions. I always thought it would be neat to have.

So now I'm looking for a local heat treater. Couple of places said bring them by to look. Minimum job size OK. When I get done, I'll have one to sell. Any big bore kick only builders out there?

Ecosse · « **Reply #461 on:** May 11, 2009, 02:14:32 PM »

ever look into cryogenic freezing parts?

http://www.cryogenicsofindiana.com/

http://www.cryogenicsofindiana.com/IFD/Mayor-FebPressRelease.htm

http://www.nitrofreeze.com/blog.html

MCRider · « **Reply #462 on:** May 11, 2009, 02:20:34 PM »

Quote from: Ecosse on May 11, 2009, 02:14:32 PM

ever look into cryogenic freezing parts?

http://www.cryogenicsofindiana.com/

http://www.cryogenicsofindiana.com/IFD/Mayor-FebPressRelease.htm

http://www.nitrofreeze.com/blog.html

No I had not, thanks! That outfit in Lebanon is actually closer 8 miles, to me than going downtown Indy, 15 miles. I'll be giving them a call. Its not "period" but I'll make an exception.

Ecosse · « **Reply #463 on:** May 11, 2009, 02:32:01 PM »

i'm hoping to have the budget when it's time to do my 550 (and brake rotor, trans gears maybe). not that i plan on racing but i figure anything to prolong this old mill may be worth a look-see.

as for not being period correct, i'm a believer that the best technology is one you can't see;

nobody can see the modern oil i run either.

but forget i said the 'o' word.

MCRider · « **Reply #464 on:** May 11, 2009, 02:34:32 PM »

Quote from: Ecosse on May 11, 2009, 02:32:01 PM

i'm hoping to have the budget when it's time to do my 550 (and brake rotor, trans gears maybe). not that i plan on racing but i figure anything to prolong this old mill may be worth a look-see.

as for not being period correct, i'm a believer that the best technology is one you can't see; nobody can see the modern oil i run either.

but forget i said the 'o' word.

Looking at the price list in the third link...very reasonable. The shot peening may have been wasted money, but they sure look nice after being peened.

Oil? Whats that?

Ecosse · « **Reply #465 on:** May 14, 2009, 06:38:07 PM »

i was flipping through a harley magizine and ran across these. thought since you put some work into your crash bars you may find these interesting.

http://www.pro-guards.com/

MCRider · « **Reply #466 on:** May 17, 2009, 10:02:07 PM »

Quote from: Ecosse on May 14, 2009, 06:38:07 PM

i was flipping through a harley magizine and ran across these. thought since you put some work into your crash bars you may find these interesting.

http://www.pro-guards.com/

Thanks for thinking of me. Those look like a guard for the guard, which is one layer too much for me.

FYI: Heres yesterdays mockup with new motormounts:

Looking at this picture made me think I don't know if my finned points cover will fit inside the guard. Another mock up to come.

Re: the front lower bolt is now stainless, oversize dia., longer with nuts on both ends to accommodate the guards. The stock aftermarket approach to mounting these guards is to thread the left one, remove all washers and thread the bolt in. It would catch about 3 threads in the guard, taking it to prescribed torque would strip out the thread in the guard. Mine is big improvement.

New motormounts, the peg mounting bolt:

You can almost tell by looking the top bolt is a larger dia. It is .5" with 12mmx1.25 threads. The bottom stock bolt is someting around .46" dia. The fit of the new bolt is friction requiring a slight tap vs the stocker which was very sloppy.

MCRider · « **Reply #467 on:** May 17, 2009, 10:18:51 PM »

Had a good day in the shop, but progress is hard to see. The shim I had made to pre-load the primary tensioner spring (stealing an idea from Rob/Voxonda) was not to my liking. The locating stud on the tensioner base actually held it up. So I drilled a hole to acept the head of the stud allowing the shim to lay flat. Sorry no picture. But that dang shim was made out of something pretty tough. Me with no drill press, I ruined 1 bit trying to drill it. So I started with a smaller one and had to advance one bit at a time through the drill index to get where I needed to be. About 15 passes.

Put the engine in the stand to prep for painting:

Any tips on masking this thing? I expect to use the blue maskers tape and just do it, though I can see it could take a long time. I was thinking about cutting one large piece of posterboard to drop over the cylinder studs and maybe for the side covers too?

Got my shotpeened kick starter shafts back.

Per Ecosse suggestion, I called and emailed 2 places for Cryogenics, but they've never responded. If not I think the shotpeening is enough. I never broke one in the past but I know some who have. Gotta keep that battery fully charged.

Found an oil pump on eBay supposedly from a 78F with 7500 miles on it. If so, that should be in pretty good shape and, while I'll still rebuild the ones I have, there'd be no question with the almost new one.

step by step

MCRider · « **Reply #468 on:** May 17, 2009, 10:29:46 PM »

I've got three bikes that could actually run. So this week, I'll be prepping them for riding. Oil changes, lubing cables, etc. But I hope to make headway on Phaedrus as well.

It never fails to amaze me how much enthusiastic interest there is in these old bikes. I've spoken with a few different engine builders over the last few weeks. They are very opinionated and very proud of their approaches. Makes it hard for those of us who don't really know this or that and are looking for advice. But it also just affirms the old saying there is more than one way to skin a cat.

And if i do something wrong, I'll just change it.

Ecosse · « **Reply #469 on:** May 17, 2009, 11:24:15 PM »

Quote from: MCRider on May 17, 2009, 10:02:07 PM

Those look like a guard for the guard, which is one layer too much for me.

point taken.

there's nothing like the look of a fresh clean engine, even if it's missing the guts.

as for the non returned calls, seaweb11 seems to be having a similar issues with drag strips. wonder if the lousy economy has shut these places down, or cut back the work force, to the point where it effects (affects? never get that right) covering the phones/email.

about that points cover clearance: how much of a pain to shave the fins? assuming there's enough meat.

MCRider · « **Reply #470 on:** May 18, 2009, 05:58:12 AM »

Quote from: Ecosse on May 17, 2009, 11:24:15 PM

Quote from: MCRider on May 17, 2009, 10:02:07 PM
Those look like a guard for the guard, which is one layer too much for me.
point taken.

there's nothing like the look of a fresh clean engine, even if it's missing the guts.

as for the non returned calls, seaweb11 seems to be having a similar issues with drag strips. wonder if the lousy economy has shut these places down, or cut back the work force, to the point where it effects (affects? never get that right) covering the phones/email.

about that points cover clearance: how much of a pain to shave the fins? assuming there's enough meat.

Well, I'll will be upset if I scratch up the guards to be sure. But gotta call it quits somewhere. Wouldn't even have them except if i ride the bike as much as intended, past experience indicates to me I will tip over at some point. I've dented a couple of point covers, bending the points drive shaft, and holed an alternator cover or 2.

Yes, I'm expecting some casualties in our chain of suppliers before this is over.

And shaving the fins is the fix. I'll want to be sure i have enough meat to do that if necessary.

MCRider · « **Reply #471 on:** May 18, 2009, 09:44:50 PM »

Got a little work done tonight: received the oil pump I bot from ebay, somewhere in this ball of wrapping paper and tape.

Took some freakin time to cut it open, but it looks virtually new. yay!
Looking at the beautiful chrome body S&W Shocks, period, new in the box.

The aged bushings had turned to stone and just broke out.

Progressive Suspension, who bot S&W back in the 70s, was nice enough to send me a bag of a pair of every bushing they had hoping that one would fit. For free! And it appears one will fit perfectly.

The bushings are flexible

but they are not going to push into the shocks easily. I was thinking of heating them in hot water, then lubing them up and pressing them in with my vice. Any suggestions?
So then I needed a brush to run down thru my fork tubes. I bot them from Franks years ago and they have rusted on the insides. I got this 1" wire brush with a quick release extension which will do nicely and allow me to continue with the fork assembly.

And while I was rummaging around on the shelves I had to take another look at the pistons. Forged ARIAS, 67mm, I've forgotten the CR, probably 10:1 +/-. So sweet.

Man its easy to accumulate neat parts. Quite something else to assemble them.

step by ...

Ecosse · « **Reply #472 on:** May 18, 2009, 10:19:42 PM »

for the bushings perhaps sticking them in the freezer for a while might contract the things enough. at the same time put the shocks under a heat lamp or something.

i bet the person had a blast "packaging" the oil pump! is it reconditioned or a serviceable piece? sohc pumps are no longer available new, right?

MCRider · « **Reply #473 on:** May 18, 2009, 10:25:12 PM »

Quote from: Ecosse on May 18, 2009, 10:19:42 PM

for the bushings perhaps sticking them in the freezer for a while might contract the things enough. at the same time put the shocks under a heat lamp or something.

i bet the person had a blast "packaging" the oil pump! is it reconditioned or a serviceable piece? sohc pumps are no longer available new, right?

I'm afraid of doing anything to the bushings that would make them brittle. They are a rubberish plastic.

The oil pumps are no longer available true. i have a few serviceable used ones. But this one from ebay was advertised as from a 78F with 7500 miles on it. That's about as close to new as i may get. I'll take one side off and if the rotors have like new clearances, I'll button it up and say yay!

truthfully, I think they are so overbuilt that a used one with 50k on it is probably fine. But like new feels better.

MCRider · « **Reply #474 on:** May 19, 2009, 09:03:36 AM »

Update on www.Cryogenicsofindiana.com referral given to me by Ecosse, a major contributor to this project. (coined "Super Standard")

Jeff Collins proprietor called me back today, he had been at a trade show in Alabama. Cryo pretty much a one-man show. But they are in big contract with City of Indy to do the brakes on their emergency vehicles. Seems to be a real popular item for Cryo. Fire trucks etc. Makes them last longer (perform better?)

Review: I'm getting 3 kick starter shafts prepped for heavy duty. All have been shot peened, but I got stonewalled at heat treating. Problem being we don't know the baseline "rockwell" and would have to pay to have it tested before the heat treater could do it. Cryo on the other hand doesn't matter. They just drop it in a tub of dry ice for a period of time and your done.

Once we talked about where I'm located, he said for me to take them to C&R Racing (stone's throw from here) and Jeff would pick them up there. So, done. Cryo is in Lebanon IN about 10 miles NW of here. Should get them back in a week or so.

C&R made 70% of cooling systems for current Indy 500 field, and 7 of the suspensions. Nice shop. They said they are available for one-off custom work. Maybe I won't have to drive to Saldana...

Jeff offered to do one for free, and if I liked it he'd do the other two. Nice offer, but no need. If its stronger, its stronger. Waiting won't prove anything. Do all 3.

So, that's taken care of. I need 2, one is for sale at $60 + S&H. Any of you big bore kick only motor builders might consider this.

News:

Author Topic: Phaedrus: CB750 RestoMod - Update: 09/23/21 w/ new video (Read 868640 times)