Topic: Phaedrus: CB750 RestoMod - Update: 09/23/21 w/ new video

[MCRider]

So I put the cases back in the frame, bolted on the engine guards and screwed in the side covers to see if they would clear. The alternator cover is actually closer than the point cover, but an inch is as good as a mile. Both will fit.

I had to hang all the covers just for the looksee.



One final item to size up and ... maybe... powdercoat on Thursday

[MCRider]

Well, i done it. Took the frame and misc parts to Indy Powder Coating. Engine Guards, battery box, motor mount, gussets, tool tray.  Going with a gold the closest i could get to Honda Candy Gold, but with a metallic undercoat. He has the translucent "candy" top coat, but has to order the metallic basecoat. He has over 500 colors in stock, and more by special order, so that was a big problem choosing. With the holiday and ordering, etc, should be 2 weeks, but i told hime 3 or 4 weeks is OK. I got lots to do.


The "tins" are purple, but since they probably need redoing that can change to a better match to the gold if need be. IPC has a custom paint operation too, so he pitched me a deal to repaint the tins if need be. Pin stripes, graphics, etc. He wants to be a one stop shop. They do massive production work for Vance & Hines (Natl HQ in Brownsburg) and others. They specialize in MC. Hope I'm not disappointed.

Since I've been working on this since 1999, then stalled out for about 8 years, I'm not sure how this happened, but... I have fork tubes and teflon coated hardware for a K0-K1 front end, but my lower legs are for a later model, damper style fork!  So if I'm going to use the stuff I've invested in, I need some old style lower legs. I must've been goofy as I have a set of new style lower legs that are polished, why would I have done that?

Anyone got some old style lower legs?  Motivated buyer.

I'l be out of town for Memorial Day. Nice break then get back to it.

[mystic_1]

Candy gold frame??  Nice, can't wait to see it.  Must have missed reading when you mentioned color choices.  Exciting stage to be in, getting close to final assembly.

Enjoy your weekend!

mystic_1

[MCRider]

Yes the frame was always to be gold, only mentioned once or twice. Almost switched to silver, but I've had a silver frame, so slid back to gold.

The powder coater had an Uncle who used to sand drag an 812cc CB750. It was "really fast" (of course)    So he's into it.  Someone here once said if you're going to farm something out, find someone who is "in" to your project.

Did a stupid thing and had my tins painted nearly the first thing many years ago. The tank is now borderline due to rust and neglect. The more I look at the sidecovers the more i see blemishes I should have not paid for. The guy was an excellent well-known painter, but I had the feeling he wasn't "in" to it.

And the striping colors may not be right for a gold frame. They are still usable and won't slow me down.

Lesson: paint on tins should be last thing, not the first thing.

Tins = tank and sidecovers. Fenders will be chrome.

[MCRider]

At the suggestion of Ecosse, I sent 3 CB750 kickstart shafts to www.Cryogenicsofindiana.com for treatment. I had them shotpeened already at Metal Improvement Company. http://www.metalimprovement.com/index.php?gclid=CMKm7Y2435oCFQgNDQod7DMU0g  The goal is an unbreakable shaft. Current project Phaedrus II wil retain the electric starter, but I know from experience sometimes the battery is low and a partial kick assist or full kick is needed to get her started. It'll be an 888cc with 10.5:1 CR.

Next project is a true 750cc with 12:1 CR, kick only. (2 ring Yosh slipper pistons) It probably doesn't really need the beefier shaft, but being kick only it'll reduce the anxiety.

So that leaves one for sale.

Talked to Jeff at Cryo and the shafts are done, less than a week. Picked up and delivered to a shop close to me. He said that once he got a look at them he thinks the cryo treatment would've been all that was necessary. They are perfect candidates for the treatment. So I've got belt and suspenders.

Talked to him about the rocker stands, cams, rocker arms. He said all were good candidates, but he would reserve judgement on the stands till he saw them.  I have buku rocker arms but they all have some wear. Still cryo is OK for worn items. And will generally double the service life new or used, of bearing/wear surfaces.

Open for comments.

[Retro Rocket]

Very interesting..

Mick

[MCRider]

So got my 5 hours in + :
Got the shop cleaned up finally. Rollaway with triple tree:


big bench:



breakdown table with lonely parts, waiting for assy:



Ready to assemble forks, but waiting on lowers. Bought a pair of legs from bikeboneyard.com to get the lowers. Somehow I have 2 pairs of late model lowers, but i had always intended to use early model forks and that's what my Franks Forks legs are.



Got the new to me oil pump disassembled. It was supposedly from a 78F with very low miles. Seems to be as the rotors clearance was .003 vs .006+ on the others i accumulated. The manual spec says to replace at .014, so all pumps are usable. The new to me also had virtually no visible pitting in the rotors, while the other 3 were very pitted, so I'm good to go with this pump. Graveyard of pumps:



Got lots of stuff in the air, frame at powdercoaters, gotta get the cases painted, forks in UPS, etc.

When I get the frame back, a week or so, I think I have everything to assemble the rear end. Fender, electrics, taillight, swingarm, rr wheel, seat, rack, etc.

Boxing things up for more cryo. Sprockets are a good candidate. Big post on Cryo over at SOHC4 forum.
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=52465.0

[MCRider]

Hello: Years ago I found a completely original 68 CB77 SuperHawk in a lady's climate controlled storage room and was able to buy it. The Speedo/tach combo (both in same unit) was very erratic from condensation/rust/loss of lubrication. I found "Foreign Speedo Repair" probably thru the VJMC but I don't know for sure and Preston was able to recondition the unit for a fair price. That was many years ago.

They don't have a website, located in SanDiego, I called the number I had 619-298-5278 and Preston answered. So now my question was for my K1 gauges for my Phaedrus II project. he quoted me $80 Speedo and $75 tach to recondition (my needles bounce) and replace the faces if I supply the faces. He can supply faces but prices are pretty high thru his source.

So I'm likely to give them another try as I can't do it all and I've never done gauges. 

But, I do need some K1 face templates to get the holes for the idiot lite spacing as I may have a source otherwise. Anyone have such a template they could offer for me to use?

PS: Just got a call, my powdercoating (frame and misc) is done! Yay!  Likely pick it up tomorrow (Thursday)

[HondaMan]

Hello: Years ago I found a completely original 68 CB77 SuperHawk in a lady's climate controlled storage room and was able to buy it.

I had one of those! The seat had been changed so it had a "horn" on the front, not quite so hard on the crotch up against the tank's backside. The intake valves were bigger,too (starting in 1967). It was my favorite playracer for about 5 years, sold it to my father-in-law, who loved it even longer. Indestructable engine, those Superhawks.

[MCRider]

Hello: Years ago I found a completely original 68 CB77 SuperHawk in a lady's climate controlled storage room and was able to buy it.

I had one of those! The seat had been changed so it had a "horn" on the front, not quite so hard on the crotch up against the tank's backside. The intake valves were bigger,too (starting in 1967). It was my favorite playracer for about 5 years, sold it to my father-in-law, who loved it even longer. Indestructable engine, those Superhawks.

Mine is all stock, rode it several thousand miles after buying it, then disassembled to refurbish and there it lays. I WILL get it back together. Was able to get another complete engine I'd like to hop up and swap in and out.

When i was riding the stocker, my buddies on more modern bikes couldn't believe the performance. 60 mpg too, at speed.

At the time it had a mpg record at over 100, but the avg speed was about 24.

Its really the bike I learned how to ride on. When i was 15 i was visiting an older cousin on thier maryland dairy farm. i spent the week riding cow trails. very memorable.

[HondaMan]

Hello: Years ago I found a completely original 68 CB77 SuperHawk in a lady's climate controlled storage room and was able to buy it.

I had one of those! The seat had been changed so it had a "horn" on the front, not quite so hard on the crotch up against the tank's backside. The intake valves were bigger,too (starting in 1967). It was my favorite playracer for about 5 years, sold it to my father-in-law, who loved it even longer. Indestructable engine, those Superhawks.

Mine is all stock, rode it several thousand miles after buying it, then disassembled to refurbish and there it lays. I WILL get it back together. Was able to get another complete engine I'd like to hop up and swap in and out.

When i was riding the stocker, my buddies on more modern bikes couldn't believe the performance. 60 mpg too, at speed.

At the time it had a mpg record at over 100, but the avg speed was about 24.

Its really the bike I learned how to ride on. When i was 15 i was visiting an older cousin on thier maryland dairy farm. i spent the week riding cow trails. very memorable.

I think I have to 'blame' my riding skills on my Superhawk, too! I started on a friend's CT Trail 90, then my brother bought a Puch 106cc (Sears "Allstate" branded) which we rode constantly for 2 more years. Then I traded my car (1963 Galaxie 4-dr) for the Superhawk because the college I was at would not allow cars for underclassmen, but I could manage to hide a bike. And, my frat father had a CB160, which I borrowed enough times to realize I wanted something bigger. That became the love affair: my brother bought me a new battery, just to see the electric start work on a motorcycle, and we were hooked. My first 90 MPH ride got me hooked into the go-fast business, and then the 750 came out. By 1972, I had the 'Hawk, a CL350, CB450, CB500, and my first CB750K1. It got too hard to keep up with all of them and school, too, so as I phased out of the track thing, I sold off the non-streetable ones to people who ultimately put them all back on the street, oddly enough. When I discovered the crooked (miswelded) frame on my K1, only had time to trade it for a K2, which had just come out that week., before finals: ended up with it ever since.

[MCRider]

POWDER!  Closest i could come to Honda Candy Gold (w/metallic). They had 5000+ colors of which at least 50 were different shades of gold. After hours of dliberation, I threw a dart and I think I hit it.

The gray tube ends is where it was masked to accept the APE style tube removal kit.
Best shot of the metallic:

Still not the best look at it though. the sunlight really brings it out better than the picture. Lack of light and it fades to darkness. Nice effect.  Here's the add on pieces:

Home again:


Hang a bunch of chrome off each end and purple tins in the middle, like it or not, it'll be a knock out. To me anyways.

Here's Gary the owner and Larry ? the tech.

 Gary says "Steel Horse" the local station motorcycle show was in to film their (the powder coater's) new commercial. They didn't have a lot of bling laying around at the time so my frame got filmed. We'll see if it makes the cut.

[Ecosse]

phaedrus is a stunner, not even finished yet!!

you have great vision sir. 

[DollarBill]

GOLD GOLD GOLD!  I love it!  I think it is going to be killer.  I like the idea of powder coating the engine guards the same as the frame.  Where did you get your engine guards?

[MCRider]

GOLD GOLD GOLD!  I love it!  I think it is going to be killer.  I like the idea of powder coating the engine guards the same as the frame.  Where did you get your engine guards?

Thank you! You me and Ecosse makes 3.

Took about 3 months of monitoring eBay to find the guards. I don't know anyone making them new just like those. I knew what I wanted. True 3 pointers, 3 touch points on the frame, and 7/8" pipe. Got outbid on the first 2 sets, got the 3rd for $65. Chrome was very bad. Looked good in my pictures, but i knew I had to do something. I may have them chromed in the future, but Brown's wanted about $200+. So a light bulb went off, do them frame color. They glass beaded them to etch the chrome then powdered them for about $40 for the pair.

I like them too. What started out as a budget concern may become a positive fashion statement!

On the right side, I had the touch points welded to the triangle motor mount. On the left side I did away with the "U" Bolt they came with, had a tab welded on the frame and a matching tab on the guard, so they look like they were meant to be there. More than a "U" bolt clamp anyway.

[Ecosse]

that's what i like about your bike, the conceivable factory build look to it.

i read some famous car customizer (who?) once said a successful mild customizing will look like it belongs. it won't stick out or seem out of place.

to me that's exactly the point, beyond any functional concern.

[MCRider]

that's what i like about your bike, the conceivable factory build look to it.

i read some famous car customizer (who?) once said a successful mild customizing will look like it belongs. it won't stick out or seem out of place.

to me that's exactly the point, beyond any functional concern.

Thanks, that's what I'm going for.

If you look past the garish, 1970s disco paint scheme... 

[Joel]

...i read some famous car customizer (who?) once said a successful mild customizing will look like it belongs. it won't stick out or seem out of place.

to me that's exactly the point, beyond any functional concern.

Me too.  I'm trying to get my 400 back to looking stock.  At least I've finally got the extended forks and high bars off of it. 

[goon 1492]

Been lurking and I am really looking forward to seeing this monster come alive.

[MCRider]

Been lurking and I am really looking forward to seeing this monster come alive.

You and me both!

Indulge me with a few more pictures, the wrapping has been removed.



Rob Voxonda's double motor mount still fits. Powder Coaters followed my instructions and masked it off properly. A simple press fit with the hand and it went back in place.



You can see the bare metal inside all the holes, motor mounts, threaded holes, swingarm pivots etc. It appears they masked and plugged everything.

[MCRider]

Now I have a more serious problem. years ago when I started this, I somehow let go of my K1 lower legs. I remember thinking they were worn out internally, so maybe i trashed them. Then accidentally replaced them with K2 or later. So now I'm shopping for K0/K1 lower legs to fir the K1 fork tubes I paid good money for from Franks. (Also years ago).

The easist tell of the identity is that the early style does not have an Allen bolt in the bottom of the leg, looking up from the axle mount.

I found a set advertised as 1970 CB750 from Bike BoneYard and bought them. But they do have the Allen bolt. And besides that they are not set up for the second disk:


Also, other than the rust that shows here, the fork tube is chromed all the way up. I'm pretty sure that never happened before 1972/K2 or even later till the Fs came out.


So anyone got any clues?  I have emailed BikeBoneYard to see what their policy is on this.

And finally, I still need the early style lower legs.

[HondaMan]

MC:
Those resemble early K0 lowers, pre-April, 1970 manufacture: those were the only 750s that had non-mirrored lowers. It's very curious that they have the lower Allen bolt: could they be CL/CB450 lowers, circa 1971? Those were a curious mix of 750 hardware and CB500 fork parts, for 1971 and part of 1972 (after that, the 450 got the CB500 front brake, legs changed again).

Frame numbers 2004999 and earlier (back to the above-mentioned K0 frames) all had the lowers without the center bolt. This includes all diecast K0, all K1, and the first few thousand K2 of the 750s.

[mystic_1]

That caliper mounting boss looks wrong for a 750K0-K2.  The early forks had more of a squared off boss, with two bolts holes.  Later forks had the triangular boss with one bolt hole.

mystic_1

[MCRider]

That caliper mounting boss looks wrong for a 750K0-K2.  The early forks had more of a squared off boss, with two bolts holes.  Later forks had the triangular boss with one bolt hole.

mystic_1

Thanks HondaMan and Mystic: I sat on the email to Boneyard till i got some feedback on the offhand chance i may be wrong. I rememeber reading a HondaMan piece i think that said for a brief period the early K0s were NOT set up for dual discs, as mine are not. That would explain your concern too Mystic, and which i noticed as well, on the one leg that is set up for the disc the lugs are not what I'm used to. However, most humans alive have never seen this particular fork. So the brake lugs alone doesn't nix it.

But then i come back to the tubes being chromed all the way up, and the allens in the bottom of the legs...?

Bottom line, I know its not what I can use. I can't resell as I don't really know what it is. I DO NOT blame BoneYard, I assume they took it off a 1970 CB750 and sold it to me in good faith. So I'll wait for a little more feedback, then see what they say. I won't be disappointed if they say "Sorry", as these are used parts, sight unseen, as is, and not a life or death issue. I could have asked for pictures and more positive ID and I did not.

Got some leads on what i really need. Can always use more.

[MCRider]

Oh happy days! I've figured it out. The fork leg lowers I have are the correct ones. There is a spring stand* that is held in place by an allen head screw. It does not show on any microfiche i can find anywhere.

That screw looks for all the world like the screw that holds the damper rod/valve in the later forks.  So HondaMan, I'll have to ask you to review your thought that there is no allen screw in the K1 (for example) lower leg. Its there it just does a different job and it doesn't show on a fiche.

*I call it a spring stand. It looks similar to the damper rod/valves in later forks. It has 4 teeny tiny holes in it, but they don't look business like enough to have much purpose. But it seems its main purpose is to support the spring about 6 inches above the bottom of the lower fork leg.  Without it the spring would have to be 6 inches longer and that will never happen.

So my hunt for fork legs is over. Pictures at 7.

Here's what happens when you take something apart in 1999, and go to put it back together in 2009. Thank goodness my OCD had set in by then and i still have all the parts in clean well marked packages.