Author Topic: Phaedrus: CB750 RestoMod - Update: 09/23/21 w/ new video  (Read 855342 times)

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Offline Ecosse

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Re: Phaedrus II: CB750 "Super Standard" - Update 07/20/09- w new pics
« Reply #650 on: July 20, 2009, 12:00:11 pm »
thanks for the update. as for the welds, i have the feeling your standard is higher than many.  ;D

but it occurs to me based on your experience that if people plan on welding improvements to their frame, and plan on painting it a light color, maybe hitting it with a shot of in-the-can medium tone color to see if anything pops out. white may not be good as it too can hide imperfections.

make any sense?
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Offline MCRider

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Re: Phaedrus II: CB750 "Super Standard" - Update 07/20/09- w new pics
« Reply #651 on: July 20, 2009, 01:19:38 pm »
thanks for the update. as for the welds, i have the feeling your standard is higher than many.  ;D

but it occurs to me based on your experience that if people plan on welding improvements to their frame, and plan on painting it a light color, maybe hitting it with a shot of in-the-can medium tone color to see if anything pops out. white may not be good as it too can hide imperfections.

make any sense?
Yup sure does. The welder told me after the fact that he would prefer a customer to have the frame glass beaded or such first so he doesn't have to clean each spot of old paint as he did on mine. Beading would have left a primer gray uniform tone that would have shown imperfections better than the rustic original black i was working with I think..

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Offline MCRider

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Re: Phaedrus II: CB750 "Super Standard" - Update 07/20/09- w new pics
« Reply #652 on: July 21, 2009, 06:07:29 am »
So I fished out my rockers to find the best set of 8. Good success, 8 nice ones.

Anyone need some CB750 rockers?   ;D  This ain't all I've got more:



On a side note, don't forget to check the adjusters. Here's one with a sizable pit.



If you've got a high mileage CB750, you may want to pull the adjuster all the way out for alook see. They will wear definitely and fail occasionally.

I don't have 8 that I would use, so I'll order them hope they are available.

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Re: Phaedrus II: CB750 "Super Standard" - Update 07/20/09- w new pics
« Reply #653 on: July 23, 2009, 07:50:53 pm »
And so... I have finally found a NDT (non destructive testing) outfit. Took searches high and low, you'd think it was rocket science. Thought I had a lead, but it fell through. 7 Years ago I had a cast wheel from a wreck tested for cracks before using it on my HawkGT. I went back to that location, though it looked like a different company. I found a guy who'd worked there at that time and he said they'd sold all their NDT equipment to so and so. Looked them up they had moved, found the new location, yeah!

NDT = magnaflux (now called magnetic particle something), also fluid penetration, and several other methods for testing.

The cryo guy wanted me to magnaflux the primary chains as they are used, so that's the main motivation. I could buy new, but I hate to throw out perfectly good slightly used chains. Since this place works on an hourly lab time basis of $65 per hour, I'm going to throw in 16 rocker arms, 8 for Phaedrus, 8 for Free Bird, maybe a crank or two, some rods, anything else I can think of for an hour. They said it doesn't take long, if i call ahead, so they can be ready they can probably do it while I wait.  He said I can probably watch.

They are part of some intl franchise type operations, "ACUREN"  I think a lot of what used to be small, local machine shop operations are going this way, being bought up. The cryo operator seems to be that way.

Telling all this to my wife, she says,"I used to do that, magnaflux".

She has a degree in industrial engineering from Purdue, worked for Allison Gas Turbines (now Rolls Royce) for 8 years programming CNC machines. Her operators would make a part, with her program, she'd magnaflux it to be sure it was OK.

She's had about 4 careers since then, FBI, accounting, and now the best job of all, driving the school bus!
« Last Edit: July 23, 2009, 07:54:37 pm by MCRider »
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Offline Ecosse

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Re: Phaedrus II: CB750 "Super Standard" - Update 07/20/09- w new pics
« Reply #654 on: July 23, 2009, 08:05:30 pm »
completely overlooking most of your post; you've one cool wife!!
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Offline MCRider

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Re: Phaedrus II: CB750 "Super Standard" - Update 07/20/09- w new pics
« Reply #655 on: July 23, 2009, 08:15:11 pm »
completely overlooking most of your post; you've one cool wife!!
Thanks I'm a lucky dude.
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Offline Bill/BentON Racing

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Re: Phaedrus II: CB750 "Super Standard" - Update 07/20/09- w new pics
« Reply #656 on: July 24, 2009, 04:55:53 pm »
Yes you are,MC talked w/Cam Roos today,I was wrong,Pistons were 13-1 Cosworth,Seized on banking during practice,broke it loose(on banking)Big cajones,Lined up and still won,Against TZ250's and RS250.The next week for GNF ran Sugo longer rods and shorter pistons,won again,dude won 16 races in a row before he got hurt @ Pikes Peak.Have to talk with Stu as to why the seizure.Bill
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Offline MCRider

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Re: Phaedrus II: CB750 "Super Standard" - Update 07/20/09- w new pics
« Reply #657 on: July 25, 2009, 09:44:30 am »
Yes you are,MC talked w/Cam Roos today,I was wrong,Pistons were 13-1 Cosworth,Seized on banking during practice,broke it loose(on banking)Big cajones,Lined up and still won,Against TZ250's and RS250.The next week for GNF ran Sugo longer rods and shorter pistons,won again,dude won 16 races in a row before he got hurt @ Pikes Peak.Have to talk with Stu as to why the seizure.Bill
Great story. Even had they been ARIAS I wouldn't be too worried. SH-t happens to everyone.  ARIAS is god awful big, has sold 10s of thousands or more pistons. A few anecdotes wouldn't put me off any more than hearing that about the Cosworth pistons. Could've been a bad bore job.

Delving a little into psychological study, Arias is still run by its founder. When guys like that get real successsful they have often stepped on toes intentionally or accidentally on the way up. So I listen to anecdotes, pro and con, and try to make informed decisions.

Back to hardware, I've lost track of my compression ratio on these pistons. Since my theme has always been to tour with this bike, I'm guessing I would have asked for something low like 10:1.

When I get to that point I'll ask for help figuring it out. I guess Arias could tell me from the part number.
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Offline goon 1492

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Re: Phaedrus II: CB750 "Super Standard" - Update 07/20/09- w new pics
« Reply #658 on: July 25, 2009, 11:04:29 am »
Cool read MCrider and sound like you do have a very cool wife. 8)
I still have your abs but have not been able to send it yet, truck getting stolen and garden take up all my free time. I ma however getting it shipped out today.
Keep up the awesome build. 8)
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We are spirits going thru a human experience....

Offline MCRider

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Re: Phaedrus II: CB750 "Super Standard" - Update 07/20/09- w new pics
« Reply #659 on: July 26, 2009, 05:42:46 am »
Cool read MCrider and sound like you do have a very cool wife. 8)
I still have your abs but have not been able to send it yet, truck getting stolen and garden take up all my free time. I ma however getting it shipped out today.
Keep up the awesome build. 8)

Thanks!

I was going to say since I've resolved my fender issue its not necessary. But if you've shipped it I'll keep it with my fender repair supplies. I may need it on a future project.
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Ron
1988 NT650 HawkGT;  1978 CB400 Hawk;  1975 CB750F -Free Bird; 1968 CB77 Super Hawk -Ticker;  Phaedrus 1972 CB750K2- Build Thread
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Re: Phaedrus II: CB750 "Super Standard" - Update 07/20/09- w new pics
« Reply #660 on: July 27, 2009, 10:56:34 am »
Spent most of the morning cleaning rockers and examining. Had 38 of them total. At least 1/3 had tappet adjuters I would not use. Here's some samples:
Pit:


worn concave:

neither of those were in my engine, came from parts bikes. Lesson: If you have above 20K on CB750, pull the adjusters and check for wear. Won't cause catastrophic failure, but will mess up your valve adjustment readings and put steel in your oil. I've bot 8 new ones for this project. Many of my spares are serviceable, but what the heck. I easily had 16 very good rockers, 8 for this project, 8 for the next, which i will have magnafluxed and cryo'd, for slipperiness.

In this we inspected my stock cam inventory. One I bot off eBay a year ago, came with a K5 head and rocker stands, so I figured it was at least a R8 cam or higher. Turns out to be an R2! which was only avaiable in K0 bikes, maybe some K1. They are obviously, to the eye, hotter cams than later ones.

Can you see the difference? I had an R1 in my avatar bike:

I'm thinking dang, could my WebCam41 be hotter than that?

Got my order from Yamiya. There service is amazing. One week from Japan, Monday to Monday. (actually less as it came Saturday, but i wasn't here to sign.)

FYI: I bot their countershaft sprocket, turns out to be an AFAM, so I paid too much. But they do have a lot of little do-dads you can't get elsewhere.

FYI, the drive ratio of a 17/48 with an 18" tire is a virtual lock with a 18/48 and 17" tire. That's why I needed the 18t sprocket.

Got my cam and HD cam chain from APE, cam sprocket backordered.

WebCam 41 grind. So now i can compare all 3. Can you see the difference?

The 41 is far left, a little hotter still than the center R2, and the puny R8 far right.

So I've got most of what I wanted to cryo in the bottom end. Got to get the primary chains and misc to NDTesters.


PS: I know the 41 is a puny cam too. I'm just speaking relatively.
« Last Edit: July 27, 2009, 12:13:37 pm by MCRider »
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Offline Ecosse

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Re: Phaedrus II: CB750 "Super Standard" - Update 07/27/09- w new pics
« Reply #661 on: July 27, 2009, 12:17:07 pm »
good to know about yamiya's great service... that's impressive! are those burrs on the edge of the r1 (center) cam?
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Offline MCRider

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Re: Phaedrus II: CB750 "Super Standard" - Update 07/27/09- w new pics
« Reply #662 on: July 27, 2009, 05:33:12 pm »
good to know about yamiya's great service... that's impressive! are those burrs on the edge of the r1 (center) cam?
That's my second order from them, same service both times.

They look like burrs don't they? I had to look again, but they are just shiny spots in the metal, smooth to the touch.

The stock cams have a rougher corn cobb appearance all over compares to the webcam which I'm guesing is billet made from scratch. It has "Made in America" stamped on it.  Which means nothing to the performance but looks nice.
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1988 NT650 HawkGT;  1978 CB400 Hawk;  1975 CB750F -Free Bird; 1968 CB77 Super Hawk -Ticker;  Phaedrus 1972 CB750K2- Build Thread
"Sometimes the light's all shining on me, other times I can barely see, lately it appears to me, what a long, strange trip its been."

Offline MCRider

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Re: Phaedrus II: CB750 "Super Standard" - Update 07/27/09- w new pics
« Reply #663 on: July 27, 2009, 05:39:10 pm »
So now the question is which cam towers? I have 3 pair. 5 have the holes for pegging down the rocker pins, one does not.

I think when I seized and twisted a cam on a trip to AZ years ago, I had to buy a late model tower to replace the seized one, though I didn't need and couldn't use the extra holes. Hence i ended up with the odd piece. 

Anyhoo, they all have wear in the cam bearing surface area, though mileage is almost for sure much different. All seem about equal. Do I just close my eyes and throw a dart... or 2?

Is there anything one does to this part to refresh it? Seems unlikely, any polish attempt will just remove material.
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1988 NT650 HawkGT;  1978 CB400 Hawk;  1975 CB750F -Free Bird; 1968 CB77 Super Hawk -Ticker;  Phaedrus 1972 CB750K2- Build Thread
"Sometimes the light's all shining on me, other times I can barely see, lately it appears to me, what a long, strange trip its been."

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Re: Phaedrus II: CB750 "Super Standard" - Update 07/27/09- w new pics
« Reply #664 on: August 03, 2009, 08:38:10 am »
Whew! Dang each little part takes hours. Today, we cleaned up the shop, bagged and tagged the rockers to get them off the bench. Some go to magnaflux hopefully this week, others into cold storage. Shuffled parts, unpacked some orders from APE, MotoGrid and Yamiya.

So we mounted the taillight. Then realized I have a K0 bracket which was designed for the 2 lower holes to have bolts and the wires in the higher 3rd hole. But the fender has 3 mounting holes, which i would like to use for stability, and the 4th hole in the center for wires. So we took it off again and drilled a slot in the bracket to match the slot in the rubber base from Yamiya, to allow for the wires. Drilled a series of holes, then tied them together with remel and grinding wheel.



profile





Bracket is rechromed salvage piece. Tail light head is Yamiya replica. It has amber side panels which light up against the flash. Nice touch. Shoulder mounting bolts and rubber mounting parts from Yamiya.

Starting to feel the pressure, summer slipping away. Still making progress, not wasting time, but so many steps...

« Last Edit: August 03, 2009, 08:56:19 am by MCRider »
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1988 NT650 HawkGT;  1978 CB400 Hawk;  1975 CB750F -Free Bird; 1968 CB77 Super Hawk -Ticker;  Phaedrus 1972 CB750K2- Build Thread
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Offline HavocTurbo

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Re: Phaedrus II: CB750 "Super Standard" - Update 08/03/09- w new pics
« Reply #665 on: August 03, 2009, 08:58:38 am »
The amount of care and work and you only have the back end "mostly" finished.

I am jealous to no end!! Looks amazing!
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Offline MCRider

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Re: Phaedrus II: CB750 "Super Standard" - Update 08/03/09- w new pics
« Reply #666 on: August 03, 2009, 09:07:18 am »
The amount of care and work and you only have the back end "mostly" finished.

I am jealous to no end!! Looks amazing!

Thanks that helps, seriously.   :)
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1988 NT650 HawkGT;  1978 CB400 Hawk;  1975 CB750F -Free Bird; 1968 CB77 Super Hawk -Ticker;  Phaedrus 1972 CB750K2- Build Thread
"Sometimes the light's all shining on me, other times I can barely see, lately it appears to me, what a long, strange trip its been."

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Re: Phaedrus II: CB750 "Super Standard" - Update 08/03/09- w new pics
« Reply #667 on: August 03, 2009, 09:12:01 am »
Do you have the inner fender installed? I cant tell from my crappy work comp.
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Offline MCRider

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Re: Phaedrus II: CB750 "Super Standard" - Update 08/03/09- w new pics
« Reply #668 on: August 03, 2009, 09:14:20 am »
Do you have the inner fender installed? I cant tell from my crappy work comp.
Yes, a brand new one (NOS).
Ride Safe:
Ron
1988 NT650 HawkGT;  1978 CB400 Hawk;  1975 CB750F -Free Bird; 1968 CB77 Super Hawk -Ticker;  Phaedrus 1972 CB750K2- Build Thread
"Sometimes the light's all shining on me, other times I can barely see, lately it appears to me, what a long, strange trip its been."

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Re: Phaedrus II: CB750 "Super Standard" - Update 08/03/09- w new pics
« Reply #669 on: August 03, 2009, 09:39:32 am »
When you are done I'm going to have to print this thread so I can make sure to look at everything you did for my bike. She's still in boxes (its been almost 10 years) but I have HUGE plans.

Lots of things I would have overlooked.
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Re: Phaedrus II: CB750 "Super Standard" - Update 08/03/09- w new pics
« Reply #670 on: August 03, 2009, 11:54:29 am »
When you are done I'm going to have to print this thread so I can make sure to look at everything you did for my bike. She's still in boxes (its been almost 10 years) but I have HUGE plans.

Lots of things I would have overlooked.
I'm hoping it will print out also for posterity. I had a brief flurry of activity in 2000-01, then it sat on shelves till May 2008, so I know the 10 year feeling. We see bags of parts I tagged back in 9/00 and just laugh.

It did give me time to make "HUGE" plans.   :D
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Ron
1988 NT650 HawkGT;  1978 CB400 Hawk;  1975 CB750F -Free Bird; 1968 CB77 Super Hawk -Ticker;  Phaedrus 1972 CB750K2- Build Thread
"Sometimes the light's all shining on me, other times I can barely see, lately it appears to me, what a long, strange trip its been."

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Re: Phaedrus II: CB750 "Super Standard" - Update 08/03/09- w new pics
« Reply #671 on: August 09, 2009, 06:05:05 pm »
Decent day in the shop. Very hot, so I'll do some more tonight. Besides some workbench trivia, albeit necesary, I pulled the seat and rack out of storage since the beginning of this thread. As a "Super Standard" (thanks to Ecosse) the design criteria requires day long comfort and the ability to haul some stuff. This rack is nearly not there (small) but the rack on FJR isn't much bigger and its top of the heap for sport touring. The rack is Ventura, the CB750 was one of the first of the models that the NZ based company ever made a rack for. The seat is a one off from Corbin, "gunfighter and lady" very comfortable, with pale gold piping. Built on my original pan. A removable back rest for the "lady". The passenger height is slightly higher than stock, the drivers height is cut down and the butt is backstopped. So its very sporty solo. (I had it on Phaedrus I for a short time before i parked it.)











I'll need to make some spacers to get the rack firmed up. Note the built on hand hold to lift the bike on the centerstand.

Also, someone here or there is making stainless steel seat brackets. If you are here, or if someone else knows who that was, I'd like to talk.

« Last Edit: August 09, 2009, 06:15:32 pm by MCRider »
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"Sometimes the light's all shining on me, other times I can barely see, lately it appears to me, what a long, strange trip its been."

Offline HavocTurbo

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Re: Phaedrus II: CB750 "Super Standard" - Update 08/09/09- w new pics
« Reply #672 on: August 10, 2009, 08:54:56 am »
Absolutely gorgeous.

If you run into an impass on the ss brackets... send me some of your regular steel ones and I'll make copies for you.

So..... When's that thing gonna be a roller? I'm dying with anticipation over here!!  ;D
'48 HD Panhead - Exxon Valdez
'78 CB550K - Fokker CB.3
'78 Honda CB750K - Mavrik
'80 Yamaha XS850G - Kanibalistik
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Re: Phaedrus II: CB750 "Super Standard" - Update 08/09/09- w new pics
« Reply #673 on: August 10, 2009, 09:00:43 am »
Absolutely gorgeous.

If you run into an impass on the ss brackets... send me some of your regular steel ones and I'll make copies for you.

So..... When's that thing gonna be a roller? I'm dying with anticipation over here!!  ;D

Thank you!
I know when I look into it, I'll find the guy who is doing the SS seat brackets.

My very tentative schedule is early-fall to be a rolling chassis, late fall to be finished and running. HOWEVER, that gives me the winter to tie up loose ends I'm going to be skipping to stay on schedule. Spring would be the formal rollout.

But it all revolves around about 5 hours per week of time.

So, don't hold your breath.   ;)
Ride Safe:
Ron
1988 NT650 HawkGT;  1978 CB400 Hawk;  1975 CB750F -Free Bird; 1968 CB77 Super Hawk -Ticker;  Phaedrus 1972 CB750K2- Build Thread
"Sometimes the light's all shining on me, other times I can barely see, lately it appears to me, what a long, strange trip its been."

Offline mystic_1

  • Really Old Timer ...
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  • Posts: 6,071
  • 1970 CB750K
Re: Phaedrus II: CB750 "Super Standard" - Update 08/09/09- w new pics
« Reply #674 on: August 10, 2009, 09:22:50 am »
Nice seat Ron, looks like you could sit in that thing all day.  Nice distinctive look too.

The guy with the stainless steel seat hardware is ebay seller "www_classiccyclecity_com"

http://shop.ebay.com/merchant/www_classiccyclecity_com_W0QQ_nkwZQQ_armrsZ1QQ_fromZQQ_ipgZ

He has different kits depending on what you're doing.  Has the hinge plates only, or with mounting plates for cafe seats.  Some kits also include a mounting plate for the seat latch.

Heres a current listing for one of his hinge kits:

http://i.ebayimg.com/18/!BVuD1+w!mk~$(KGrHgoOKiwEjlLmDn3YBKT88-lojQ~~_12.JPG[/img]]http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/NEW-Honda-CB750-Cafe-Racer-SS-Hinges-CB-750-SOHC-K_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp3911Q2ec0Q2em14QQhashZitem4147eca59fQQitemZ280379565471QQptZMotorcyclesQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories



cheers
mystic_1
"A ship in harbor is safe, but that is not what ships are built for."
- John Augustus Shedd

My build thread:  http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=68952.0