Author Topic: Phaedrus: CB750 RestoMod - Update: 09/23/21 w/ new video  (Read 868952 times)

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Offline MCRider

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Re: Phaedrus II: CB750 "Super Standard" - Update 11/29/09- w new pics
« Reply #875 on: December 04, 2009, 01:41:44 PM »
Sheesh... alll kinds of serious machining processes going on here...

One would think you are restoring a bike or something.

I'm going to set your build as a quality benchmark. That ok? While I'm going to go a different direction.... Quality will be the key. 8)
Thanks! Good to have you back! Stick with that Physical Therapy. Its hard i know.

Once I found that RaceTech was arcing old bike drum brakes, I had to have it. State of the art for the era.

As far as quality... well I'll take props wherever I can get them.
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1988 NT650 HawkGT;  1978 CB400 Hawk;  1975 CB750F -Free Bird; 1968 CB77 Super Hawk -Ticker;  Phaedrus 1972 CB750K2- Build Thread
"Sometimes the light's all shining on me, other times I can barely see, lately it appears to me, what a long, strange trip its been."

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Re: Phaedrus II: CB750 "Super Standard" - Update 11/29/09- w new pics
« Reply #876 on: December 04, 2009, 02:50:53 PM »
It's interesting that a bike build named Phaedrus is the benchmark for quality.  Pirsig would have something to say about that relationship.  The result of good karma maybe or the definition of synchronicity.  Whatever it is, I love the detail you are showing in this build.  It's such a tedious process to get everything the way you want it.
Scott

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Re: Phaedrus II: CB750 "Super Standard" - Update 11/29/09- w new pics
« Reply #877 on: December 04, 2009, 07:22:27 PM »
It's interesting that a bike build named Phaedrus is the benchmark for quality.  Pirsig would have something to say about that relationship.  The result of good karma maybe or the definition of synchronicity.  Whatever it is, I love the detail you are showing in this build.  It's such a tedious process to get everything the way you want it.
Scott

Yeah I smiled a little bit when i saw that. Didn't want to say anything. We hashed all that out at the beginning of this thread a year and a half ago.

I'm glad that things have come together in my life where i can do this the way i want. That's the synchronicity.

Thanks for listening.   ;D
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1988 NT650 HawkGT;  1978 CB400 Hawk;  1975 CB750F -Free Bird; 1968 CB77 Super Hawk -Ticker;  Phaedrus 1972 CB750K2- Build Thread
"Sometimes the light's all shining on me, other times I can barely see, lately it appears to me, what a long, strange trip its been."

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Re: Phaedrus II: CB750 "Super Standard" - Update 11/29/09- w new pics
« Reply #878 on: December 07, 2009, 10:10:52 AM »
Good day at church, Sunday.

unpacked wheel from Racetech. Very minor scratches in the brake plate will need re-polishing. Tried to remount the tire. Just too stiff for my puny tools. So it goes back to tire shop Monday to remount.

Kinda good thing I took this detour. Dismounting the tire we discovered the rim strip was drifting to the side and exposing nipple to tube.


So we use 2" wide electricians tape, 3 wraps ought to do it.


Finally made real headway on the fork tubes.


Used "LeakProof" brand seals. Supposed to reduce stiction, suitable for air forks, guaranteed for life, blah blah...



Install by pushing in with wooden stick. No "driving" and potential tube nicks.



Complete with dust covers:

and air fork conversion

The tubes are 2" over length. That was to make up for the 17" wheel. Between the wheel/tire combo, I figured i'd lose 1.25in in ride height and i could slide the tubes up 3/4 and I'd be stock. The tubes are up a full inch, mathmatically, it should be at stock ride height, and it sure looks like an extended front end to me. anyway, that's the way it will be till I finish it. I can always change out tubes later. and i can add some risers to the bar clamps and get another inch up the clamps.

Fender is a tight fit, will require sides cut way down, or a different fender.

Seems to be enough room for the dual brakes, I was worried about that and still am until i know for sure.

The bald tire is just there to hold air until the project is complete, then I'll get a real one.

Time to start cleaning up the brakes.


Next week, reinstall the rear wheel and finishing touches back there. mock up the rest of the front end and look for hangups.

Engine cases onto the workbench.
« Last Edit: December 07, 2009, 10:15:30 AM by MCRider »
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1988 NT650 HawkGT;  1978 CB400 Hawk;  1975 CB750F -Free Bird; 1968 CB77 Super Hawk -Ticker;  Phaedrus 1972 CB750K2- Build Thread
"Sometimes the light's all shining on me, other times I can barely see, lately it appears to me, what a long, strange trip its been."

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Re: Phaedrus II: CB750 "Super Standard" - Update 12/07/09- w new pics
« Reply #879 on: December 07, 2009, 10:16:04 AM »
Gorgeous!

I'm sure it was covered.... what tires you looking at?

Michelins are 15% off right now. Figured I could help.

All your gold accent pieces are powdered right?
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Re: Phaedrus II: CB750 "Super Standard" - Update 12/07/09- w new pics
« Reply #880 on: December 07, 2009, 10:27:14 AM »
Gorgeous!

I'm sure it was covered.... what tires you looking at?

Michelins are 15% off right now. Figured I could help.

All your gold accent pieces are powdered right?
It will be a while before I need a tire, so I'll wait till then and keep you in mind, thanks!

The non-frame frame pieces are a mix of gold and chrome. A lot of the chrome is left over from Phaedrus I and I'll use it over. The rear brake rod, stay, are chrome, peg brackets chrome.

The chrome on the instrument rings were too bad to use over so I had them powdered as it was much cheaper, as the sprocket guard ring, etc. While the mix was a budget consideration, I think it looks good.
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1988 NT650 HawkGT;  1978 CB400 Hawk;  1975 CB750F -Free Bird; 1968 CB77 Super Hawk -Ticker;  Phaedrus 1972 CB750K2- Build Thread
"Sometimes the light's all shining on me, other times I can barely see, lately it appears to me, what a long, strange trip its been."

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Re: Phaedrus II: CB750 "Super Standard" - Update 12/07/09- w new pics
« Reply #881 on: December 07, 2009, 01:14:05 PM »
it's startin' to look like something! i like that fender and hope it works out. the jolly rodger face... strangely is a detail many would over look.

but, no air fork gauge?  ???  ;D



she's shaping up nicely mc.  8)
« Last Edit: December 07, 2009, 01:16:36 PM by Ecosse »
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Re: Phaedrus II: CB750 "Super Standard" - Update 12/07/09- w new pics
« Reply #882 on: December 07, 2009, 01:39:43 PM »
it's startin' to look like something! i like that fender and hope it works out. the jolly rodger face... strangely is a detail many would over look.

but, no air fork gauge?  ???  ;D



she's shaping up nicely mc.  8)
Fender: If I have the machine shop cut it down the sides into a "needle", then hang it from a fork brace it might work.
Jolly Roger: oh you caught that eh?

Never had a gauge on the air forks. Ran them on the Phaedrus I. I'd just pump themn to 10 or so and know that each time you put the pressure gauge on you lose exactly 2 lbs (depends on the gauge.) just gotta work up a routine. About 5lbs is the target, with no weight on the bike.

If you had a gauge it would be very entertaining. The needle would be flying as you go down the road and would have to accommodate pressures from sub-5lbs to over 200lbs when you hit a big bump.

I had a DIY air fork one time that was simply a rubber automotive style stem in each cap nut.
I hit a big bump and the dang things blew out and covered me in fork oil. So I switched to the current set up, had a machine shop thread the holes in the caps,  with threaded in compression fittings and a balance tube. No problems there.
Thanks.
« Last Edit: December 07, 2009, 01:47:43 PM by MCRider »
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1988 NT650 HawkGT;  1978 CB400 Hawk;  1975 CB750F -Free Bird; 1968 CB77 Super Hawk -Ticker;  Phaedrus 1972 CB750K2- Build Thread
"Sometimes the light's all shining on me, other times I can barely see, lately it appears to me, what a long, strange trip its been."

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Re: Phaedrus II: CB750 "Super Standard" - Update 12/07/09- w new pics
« Reply #883 on: December 07, 2009, 01:41:57 PM »
Just got back form Cycle Outfitters in Indy. Gotta give them a prop. They reinstalled my tire for $2! Said it was the shop supply fee. Since I'd bot the tire there and paid them to mount it, then dismount the tire already, they gave me a break. I was ready to pay $20.

Nice surprise.
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Ron
1988 NT650 HawkGT;  1978 CB400 Hawk;  1975 CB750F -Free Bird; 1968 CB77 Super Hawk -Ticker;  Phaedrus 1972 CB750K2- Build Thread
"Sometimes the light's all shining on me, other times I can barely see, lately it appears to me, what a long, strange trip its been."

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Re: Phaedrus II: CB750 "Super Standard" - Update 12/07/09- w new pics
« Reply #884 on: December 07, 2009, 02:01:39 PM »
here's another little detail i like to put on my bikes. This one on the HawkGT:


Keep On Truckin!
Ride Safe:
Ron
1988 NT650 HawkGT;  1978 CB400 Hawk;  1975 CB750F -Free Bird; 1968 CB77 Super Hawk -Ticker;  Phaedrus 1972 CB750K2- Build Thread
"Sometimes the light's all shining on me, other times I can barely see, lately it appears to me, what a long, strange trip its been."

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Re: Phaedrus II: CB750 "Super Standard" - Update 12/07/09- w new pics
« Reply #885 on: December 07, 2009, 03:04:54 PM »
skulls! you're not turning into a harley biker on me are ya mc?  ;D

not into the gd but their drummer writes for octane mag and is a huge petrol head.


i like those hawks... wanna get me one day and do the usual upgrades.
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Re: Phaedrus II: CB750 "Super Standard" - Update 12/07/09- w new pics
« Reply #886 on: December 07, 2009, 03:18:34 PM »
skulls! you're not turning into a harley biker on me are ya mc?  ;D

not into the gd but their drummer writes for octane mag and is a huge petrol head.


i like those hawks... wanna get me one day and do the usual upgrades.
No I just try to do things that are "out of character" once in a while to keep things interesting. In real life I am a VERY boring person.

I am a closet dead head, Was at several concerts back in the day, but tried not to let anyone know.

Hart or Kreutzman?
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1988 NT650 HawkGT;  1978 CB400 Hawk;  1975 CB750F -Free Bird; 1968 CB77 Super Hawk -Ticker;  Phaedrus 1972 CB750K2- Build Thread
"Sometimes the light's all shining on me, other times I can barely see, lately it appears to me, what a long, strange trip its been."

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Re: Phaedrus II: CB750 "Super Standard" - Update 12/07/09- w new pics
« Reply #887 on: December 07, 2009, 03:33:39 PM »

Hart or Kreutzman?

drummer?  oops, i'm thinking pink floyd... nick mason. sorry. i got my trippy music mixed up which tells you how square i am.  ;D



oh, yeah, boring people build and ride gold framed 750's with watch like attention to detail.  ::)
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Re: Phaedrus II: CB750 "Super Standard" - Update 12/07/09- w new pics
« Reply #888 on: December 07, 2009, 03:56:55 PM »
Floyd...trippy...'pane...Mt Lemmon    :D


Muy Recuerdo
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1988 NT650 HawkGT;  1978 CB400 Hawk;  1975 CB750F -Free Bird; 1968 CB77 Super Hawk -Ticker;  Phaedrus 1972 CB750K2- Build Thread
"Sometimes the light's all shining on me, other times I can barely see, lately it appears to me, what a long, strange trip its been."

Offline Bill/BentON Racing

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Re: Phaedrus II: CB750 "Super Standard" - Update 12/07/09- w new pics
« Reply #889 on: December 07, 2009, 04:55:01 PM »
MCRider your beautiful build is coming together!! Looks awesome. Your attention to detail first rate. The hours in this build? WOW.Keep up the great work! ;D,Bill
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Re: Phaedrus II: CB750 "Super Standard" - Update 12/07/09- w new pics
« Reply #890 on: December 07, 2009, 07:19:13 PM »
here's another little detail i like to put on my bikes. This one on the HawkGT:


Keep On Truckin!


steal your face right off your head  ;D i have the same decal on the underside of the gastank on my k4. i AM a deadhead
Of all God's creatures there is only one that cannot be made the slave of the lash. That one is the cat. If man could be crossed with the cat it would improve man, but it would deteriorate the cat.
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Re: Phaedrus II: CB750 "Super Standard" - Update 12/07/09- w new pics
« Reply #891 on: December 07, 2009, 08:07:58 PM »
Floyd...trippy...'pane...Mt Lemmon    :D


Muy Recuerdo

ok, you're scaring me right now.  :D

(kids these day...)

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Re: Phaedrus II: CB750 "Super Standard" - Update 12/07/09- w new pics
« Reply #892 on: December 07, 2009, 09:10:59 PM »
Hey, MC: where did you find those "Leakproof" seals? I haven't seen them in years. Good ones, too. Are those the ones that are thinner than the stock ones, so they "float" a little bit? I ran a set of those for over 15 years. They only went bad when I had to quit riding for about 5 years in a row, there in the early 2000 timeframe. A little rust formed above them, on the tubes, and the first ride tore up the lips a bit. I was sad to not find the same ones again, and the ones I have now stick a lot when the air is at 8 PSI or more.
See SOHC4shop@gmail.com for info about the gadgets I make for these bikes.

The demons are repulsed when a man does good. Use that.
Blood is thicker than water, but motor oil is thicker yet...so, don't mess with my SOHC4, or I might have to hurt you.
Hondaman's creed: "Bikers are family. Treat them accordingly."

Link to Hondaman Ignition: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=67543.0

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Re: Phaedrus II: CB750 "Super Standard" - Update 12/07/09- w new pics
« Reply #893 on: December 08, 2009, 05:29:17 AM »
Hey, MC: where did you find those "Leakproof" seals? I haven't seen them in years. Good ones, too. Are those the ones that are thinner than the stock ones, so they "float" a little bit? I ran a set of those for over 15 years. They only went bad when I had to quit riding for about 5 years in a row, there in the early 2000 timeframe. A little rust formed above them, on the tubes, and the first ride tore up the lips a bit. I was sad to not find the same ones again, and the ones I have now stick a lot when the air is at 8 PSI or more.
Yes these are the ones of which you speak. My last ones were 15 yrs and 50k+ miles and weren't leaking when I retired the bike.

I had bot a set for this project 10 yrs ago, but goofed on the dimensions buying 35x48x11 (early CB750)when I needed 35x46x11. Terry has dibs on the 48s (late CB750)
I googled leakproof and came up with many places. Big outlets like Dennis Kirk have them, but i was lost in the website. I found Thunder Products with a nice clean presentation. They advertise they float, reduce stiction, work with air forks, feed you wine and grapes, etc. My size is only available in the "classic", the larger ones are available in Pro-Moly (Classic but better).

http://www.thunderproducts.com/Leakproofforkseals.htm

When I called TP, the guy who answered wanted to talk, asked me what i was working on, said he was on the team with Dick Mann's bike, gave me a lead for CB77 parts. Nice guy. Ordered them on Monday, got them on Thursday, $3 S&H.
« Last Edit: December 08, 2009, 05:32:28 AM by MCRider »
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1988 NT650 HawkGT;  1978 CB400 Hawk;  1975 CB750F -Free Bird; 1968 CB77 Super Hawk -Ticker;  Phaedrus 1972 CB750K2- Build Thread
"Sometimes the light's all shining on me, other times I can barely see, lately it appears to me, what a long, strange trip its been."

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Re: Phaedrus II: CB750 "Super Standard" - Update 12/07/09- w new pics
« Reply #894 on: December 08, 2009, 08:10:02 AM »
Hey, MC: where did you find those "Leakproof" seals? I haven't seen them in years. Good ones, too. Are those the ones that are thinner than the stock ones, so they "float" a little bit? I ran a set of those for over 15 years. They only went bad when I had to quit riding for about 5 years in a row, there in the early 2000 timeframe. A little rust formed above them, on the tubes, and the first ride tore up the lips a bit. I was sad to not find the same ones again, and the ones I have now stick a lot when the air is at 8 PSI or more.
Yes these are the ones of which you speak. My last ones were 15 yrs and 50k+ miles and weren't leaking when I retired the bike.

I had bot a set for this project 10 yrs ago, but goofed on the dimensions buying 35x48x11 (early CB750)when I needed 35x46x11. Terry has dibs on the 48s (late CB750)
I googled leakproof and came up with many places. Big outlets like Dennis Kirk have them, but i was lost in the website. I found Thunder Products with a nice clean presentation. They advertise they float, reduce stiction, work with air forks, feed you wine and grapes, etc. My size is only available in the "classic", the larger ones are available in Pro-Moly (Classic but better).

http://www.thunderproducts.com/Leakproofforkseals.htm

When I called TP, the guy who answered wanted to talk, asked me what i was working on, said he was on the team with Dick Mann's bike, gave me a lead for CB77 parts. Nice guy. Ordered them on Monday, got them on Thursday, $3 S&H.

When I couldn't find them in 2005 (when I started riding again), I took the old ones to Rocket Seals to discover the secret of these great seals. The outside layer is thicker than normal, but the steel liner is smaller OD. The lip inside is made to accept hydraulic pressure to improve the sealing force on the shaft, and is available in 1-lip and 2-lip styles. Finally, the thickness is a hair over 9mm instead of 11mm, which lets it float and self-align in the K2 and earlier-style fork legs, by removing the backup washer. This yields the near-zero stiction feature they are famous for, and mitigates any leakage in the process. Nice parts! I got some similar ones from Rocket, but with the 2-lip inner: bad move. Next I'm going back to these, or to some of the Rocket 1-lip style (since I have some on hand...).
See SOHC4shop@gmail.com for info about the gadgets I make for these bikes.

The demons are repulsed when a man does good. Use that.
Blood is thicker than water, but motor oil is thicker yet...so, don't mess with my SOHC4, or I might have to hurt you.
Hondaman's creed: "Bikers are family. Treat them accordingly."

Link to Hondaman Ignition: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=67543.0

Link to My CB750 Book: https://www.lulu.com/search?adult_audience_rating=00&page=1&pageSize=10&q=my+cb750+book

Link to website: www.SOHC4shop.com

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Re: Phaedrus II: CB750 "Super Standard" - Update 12/07/09- w new pics
« Reply #895 on: December 08, 2009, 08:30:22 PM »
Are these the ones?:

http://www.thunderproducts.com/Leakproofforkseals.htm

For CB750 (72-78):
http://www.thunderproducts.com/LeakProofFork%20Seals/Leakproof7209.htm






Yes the 35/48/11 in your shopping cart. I'd suggest popping for the Pro-Moly over the classic since they are available.
Ride Safe:
Ron
1988 NT650 HawkGT;  1978 CB400 Hawk;  1975 CB750F -Free Bird; 1968 CB77 Super Hawk -Ticker;  Phaedrus 1972 CB750K2- Build Thread
"Sometimes the light's all shining on me, other times I can barely see, lately it appears to me, what a long, strange trip its been."

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Re: Phaedrus II: CB750 "Super Standard" - Update 12/07/09- w new pics
« Reply #896 on: December 10, 2009, 05:06:42 AM »
G'Day Ron, that bike is looking seet mate! Hey I think I've got a spare fork air gauge at home and probably all the gubbins you'd need to convert your air caps to a "balanced" arrangement, I had a thing for them years ago and bought a dozen or so sets, so I'd be happy to send them to you, (freebie) if you like? The gauge will move as the forks go up and down over bumps, but normally only around 0-20 psi.

Interestingly enough, when I had my Kawasaki Z900 26 years ago, in an effort to improve it's handling I installed (amongst other things) an S&W air fork kit, with around 10 psi in the system. What I dscovered was that at around 60 MPH touring speeds, the gauge was reading zero? But when I slowed down to 35 around town, the air pressure would return to around 10 psi?

Hmmmnnnn, I couldn't help but wonder if the front of the bike was getting "light" at highway speeds? Cheers, Terry. ;D

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So I said, "Hey mate, you haven't got any bike boots you don't need, do you?"

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Re: Phaedrus II: CB750 "Super Standard" - Update 12/07/09- w new pics
« Reply #897 on: December 10, 2009, 05:42:52 AM »
Thanks Terry, If you look real close you'll see my set up is balanced. A hose comes out of each cap and converges in the middle with the single Schrader in a bracket on the handlebar, so I'm good to go.

I'll pass on the gauge. Never needed it before and I don't have a lot of room in the handlebar area. I'm going to mount an oil pressure gauge between the instruments somehow.

I would have guessed the gauge  would read higher over the bumps. Interesting it would go to 0 at speed.
Ride Safe:
Ron
1988 NT650 HawkGT;  1978 CB400 Hawk;  1975 CB750F -Free Bird; 1968 CB77 Super Hawk -Ticker;  Phaedrus 1972 CB750K2- Build Thread
"Sometimes the light's all shining on me, other times I can barely see, lately it appears to me, what a long, strange trip its been."

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Re: Phaedrus II: CB750 "Super Standard" - Update 12/07/09- w new pics
« Reply #898 on: December 13, 2009, 08:41:59 AM »
The S&W kit had a pressure snubber (like a small fuel jet) in the back of the gauge to prevent sudden excursions from damaging the Bourdon tube inside. When 10 PSI is applied while the bike is sitting still, the forks are partly compressed. When fully extended, the pressure goes to  a slight vacuum instead. The snubber causes the readings to "average out", which results in a near-zero reading while bumping along. (I learned all this from work on instrumenting hydraulic systems...)

If you increased the PSI to more than 20 on a CB750 with S&W, it would show about 5 PSI at racetrack speeds and the fork seals would leak something awful. In those situations, 0-1 PSI at speed was the actual "goal" of tuning the front forks. Another secret revealed... ::)
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Re: Phaedrus II: CB750 "Super Standard" - Update 12/07/09- w new pics
« Reply #899 on: December 13, 2009, 09:22:07 AM »
The S&W kit had a pressure snubber (like a small fuel jet) in the back of the gauge to prevent sudden excursions from damaging the Bourdon tube inside. When 10 PSI is applied while the bike is sitting still, the forks are partly compressed. When fully extended, the pressure goes to  a slight vacuum instead. The snubber causes the readings to "average out", which results in a near-zero reading while bumping along. (I learned all this from work on instrumenting hydraulic systems...)

If you increased the PSI to more than 20 on a CB750 with S&W, it would show about 5 PSI at racetrack speeds and the fork seals would leak something awful. In those situations, 0-1 PSI at speed was the actual "goal" of tuning the front forks. Another secret revealed... ::)
Dang! HM U da man!
Ride Safe:
Ron
1988 NT650 HawkGT;  1978 CB400 Hawk;  1975 CB750F -Free Bird; 1968 CB77 Super Hawk -Ticker;  Phaedrus 1972 CB750K2- Build Thread
"Sometimes the light's all shining on me, other times I can barely see, lately it appears to me, what a long, strange trip its been."