Topic: Phaedrus: CB750 RestoMod - Update: 09/23/21 w/ new video

[MCRider]

[ot]  btw this is the 1000th reply in this thread  Carry on!  [/ot]

mystic_1

Ding ding ding you win the prize!





















don't hold your breath.   

[HavocTurbo]

Uh oh.... dare I say it.... I found a set of Drag specialties finned chrome covers in my shop this weekend.

I'm leaning on using them but I wanted to see about your situation first. All that beautiful chrome you have.......

I might also have an aftermarket 7" KZ1000 bucket wrapped in paper here that's NOS from 79 I think? That should be plenty big to hold your wiring. I'll have to find it.


Could you PM me the cryo guys info again? I've been looking for it but no luck.

Should have your flasher here by weeks end then off you to.

Any progress is progress. Even if it is only shop related. A clean and organized shop makes for faster restoration.  And you need to hurry!!! Spring is coming soon and I'm going to have to ride out there and see this baby in person!!!

[wannabridin]

Havoc,

post some pics of these finned chrome covers!!  if MC doesn't want them, maybe OTHER people will!!!   

[HavocTurbo]

Well I'm not sure I'm ready to just get rid of them.

If MC wants them they would be almost perfect for his bike given the level of detail and dare I say it..... "perfection".

It was just a fleeting thought.

Who knows I might change my project idea yet again and decide I want to use them. 

I know whatever I build.... this level of detail is not really my "style" for my own personal bike.

[Ecosse]

it would be awesome if we could pool together $$ to have copies of stuff cast.


/pipe dream

[wannabridin]

it would be awesome if we could pool together $$ to have copies of stuff cast.


/pipe dream

x1000000000000000000000

[MCRider]

Uh oh.... dare I say it.... I found a set of Drag specialties finned chrome covers in my shop this weekend.

I'm leaning on using them but I wanted to see about your situation first. All that beautiful chrome you have.......

I might also have an aftermarket 7" KZ1000 bucket wrapped in paper here that's NOS from 79 I think? That should be plenty big to hold your wiring. I'll have to find it.


Could you PM me the cryo guys info again? I've been looking for it but no luck.

Should have your flasher here by weeks end then off you to.

Any progress is progress. Even if it is only shop related. A clean and organized shop makes for faster restoration.   And you need to hurry!!! Spring is coming soon and I'm going to have to ride out there and see this baby in person!!!

Thanks HT as always.

I have a full set of polished alloy finned covers so I'm set. I had them polished professionally years ago and they've been wrapped and in a box since then.

I am suspicious that my headlight shell won't be big enough, hope to find out soon. THat's why I dug out all the electrical stuff. Figured I'd mount up the switchgear, wiring loom etc and see if I can stuff it in the shell I've got.

I can only keep on trucking. I'm way behind any schedule I thought I might maintain, but still moving forward regularly.

As far as coming here your welcome anytime. I mentioned before about having a rollout party, certainly for all the Hoosiers on the list and anyone else that can make it. Course I don;t know about inviting a bunch of strangers in, but if you'll check your guns and knives at the door...

The wife even said she would put up with us, so it could happen.

Hotdogs and soda, beer, if you can drink responsibly. Maybe some Phaedrus burnouts on the drive.   I've got parking for 20-30 bikes easy.  Camp in the back yard. No neighbors, some trees.

[SohRon]

This bike is looking awesome! Can't wait to see it done! Still impressed with that beautiful frame...
Keep the pics coming!

[wannabridin]

MC,

Here's a question for ya.  What parts do you think are more "necessary" than others to sent to get cryo'd?  I'm about to start my mildly hopped up 736 build and I would like to send some things to get cryo'd, just as added insurance.  Recommendations?  I know for sure my brake rotors and my kick starter shaft, but other than this, what do you feel is a really good bang for the buck in regards to longevity and strength??  Thanks a bunch!!

[MCRider]

MC,

Here's a question for ya.  What parts do you think are more "necessary" than others to sent to get cryo'd?  I'm about to start my mildly hopped up 736 build and I would like to send some things to get cryo'd, just as added insurance.  Recommendations?  I know for sure my brake rotors and my kick starter shaft, but other than this, what do you feel is a really good bang for the buck in regards to longevity and strength??  Thanks a bunch!!

I'm taking this from the car guys, they seem to be real keen on transmissions. We all know the problem with the 1st-2nd gear shift and popping out of gear. (a gear and forkl issue)

There is a ton of friction there. I've heard of horsepower losses from the crank to the final drive as much as 5 to 10% in the tranny. Even if cryo is good for a 25% improvemnet you do the math. Following that logic, sprockets and chains are high on the list, lots of losses there.

The drag race guys are really keen on crankshafts and engine blocks, as they tend to get distorted quickly. Gains here of 300+% in terms of runs before replacement.

Horspower gains thru reduced friction and improved strength go hand in hand.

I did my lower fork legs for reduced friction.

Brake rotors are high on the list for reduction of warping (not usually our problem) and cracking at the holes (rare but I've heard of this).

Counter intuitively, it is said to improve braking by improving the surface.

Then everything else.  

[Ecosse]

Even if cryo is good for a 25% improvemnet you do the math. Following that logic, sprockets and chains are high on the list, lots of losses there.

wow! i think 25% is a lot. do you really think that's within reach or am i looking at this wrong.

wouldn't be the first time. 

[MCRider]

Even if cryo is good for a 25% improvemnet you do the math. Following that logic, sprockets and chains are high on the list, lots of losses there.

wow! i think 25% is a lot. do you really think that's within reach or am i looking at this wrong.

wouldn't be the first time. 

Lets say there is a 5% loss on a 60 HP engine (that would be 63hp at the crank). And with cryo you gain back 25% of that loss or .8 hp. That's what i mean.  Easy gain for $20.

But my "5%" and "25%" are pure speculation. Could be more or less. I'm thinking that if you put it on a dyno and it makes a skosh more at the rear wheel than one might have expected, it could be the Cryo.

Add to that some lessening of the fear of trashing those 1-2 shift components .

[Ecosse]

makes sense now, thanks.

any reduction in hp loss is good along with some improved strength.

[wannabridin]

MC:

so should i disassemble the whole tranny and go ahead and get it all done?  or is everything else but the 1-2 shift good?  i've considered getting the whole transmission done, just for decreases in power loss.  what about the chains, i take it you treat the new chains right; cam, primary and final drive?  Also the cam, crank, and final drive sprockets?  When you say the lower fork legs, do you mean the part that the seal actually slides over?  This seems like money well spent considering the cost involved relative to the benefits gained.

final question for this round.  is undercutting worth the money?  i'm not going to have a high hp beast, but i do like to ride the bike hard and use the engine to break, therefore downshift at higher RPM's.  I've considered it, but i don't know if it's worth the extra money...

[MCRider]

MC:

so should i disassemble the whole tranny and go ahead and get it all done?  or is everything else but the 1-2 shift good?  i've considered getting the whole transmission done, just for decreases in power loss.  what about the chains, i take it you treat the new chains right; cam, primary and final drive?  Also the cam, crank, and final drive sprockets?  When you say the lower fork legs, do you mean the part that the seal actually slides over?  This seems like money well spent considering the cost involved relative to the benefits gained.

final question for this round.  is undercutting worth the money?  i'm not going to have a high hp beast, but i do like to ride the bike hard and use the engine to break, therefore downshift at higher RPM's.  I've considered it, but i don't know if it's worth the extra money...

I'd do the whole tranny, as i did. Leave the gears on the shafts, wire them on, so they only have 2 things to pick up, 3 if you include the final drive. Yes all chains, primary, cam, and final, with both final drive sprocket. The lower legs are the parts the wheel bolts to. Depending on your year, either the whole tube, or a bushing affair, slides in the lower legs which are simple aluminum and could stand to be slicker and stronger. The upper tubes, the chrome ones, I skipped on.

Is undercuting worth it? If you're a racer and one missed shift can blow a race, esp a drag race, its worth it. I've ridden a long way pretty hard without undercutting as we all have. Missed a few shifts along the way. Many things I'm doing because they are things I've known about and never had done. Undercutting is one. Bragging rights and I'll get to feel what it feels like.

Ape does the 4 upshifts for a price. That's what the dragboys do i suspect. A full roadrace treatment is double the money for 4 upshifts and 4 downshifts. I talked them into undercutting the 1-2, 2-3, 3-4 upshifts and the 3-2 downshift. for the 4 shift price. That was my compromise for the budget.  Who ever misses a 4-5 upshift? And the 3 -2 downshift is the hardest one.

[wannabridin]

so i guess that the undercutting is not worth it really, especially since i'm not making blasts thru the gears at 10K+ rpms...

i like the idea of how to get the whole tranny done, i think that sounds like something i'll do!  i have a '76 GL front end that i'm putting on there, so i don't know if i'll do the lowers or not.  thanks for the input!!  hopefully i can get all my parts in one flat rate box for cryo!  what about rocker shafts?  worth it on a relatively lowered powered street motor?  i can't wait to hear how it feels with the undercuts!!!

[MCRider]

so i guess that the undercutting is not worth it really, especially since i'm not making blasts thru the gears at 10K+ rpms...

i like the idea of how to get the whole tranny done, i think that sounds like something i'll do!  i have a '76 GL front end that i'm putting on there, so i don't know if i'll do the lowers or not.  thanks for the input!!  hopefully i can get all my parts in one flat rate box for cryo!  what about rocker shafts?  worth it on a relatively lowered powered street motor?  i can't wait to hear how it feels with the undercuts!!!

I would say most hot rod CB750s don't have undercut trans and they get along just fine. Ever since I knew about them I wanted one, so nows my chance.

The GL front end is a good upgrade. The rocker pins ... eh, why not?  I did all my valve train, mostly sause it fit in the box with the other stuff.

[wannabridin]

good idea!  i don't see how it could hurt to get "high wear" components treated...  thanks for the info MC!!!  i can't wait to see your build done, or to start mine!!!

[HavocTurbo]

I found two cryo places here in IL -

Decatur, IL - 300below.com

Park City, IL (Chicacgo) - Cooling Industries

The chicago place knew exactly what I wanted when I called. It's an hour drive so no shipping charges for me. 

Guy said come in at 9am and be on my way home by 6:30pm. But I think I'll just come back a few days later.

Had a whole list for car racing applications but they said motorcycles are a little different. Maybe by the pound charges? We haven't discussed.

I do need to talk to them about already chromed pieces and o-ring and x-ring chains and already anodised aluminum. Don't want to ruin a $200 chain/sprocket set.

[traveler]

My guess would be HEAVY wear items.  You mentioned the sprocket....that would definitely be one of them.  Hard anodized sprockets is a good way to go.  I agree on those shifting forks, and undercutting and cryo on the tranny gears will buy some insurance.

Nice idea, but if you are not drag racing, and don't have 100 horsepower....is it really necessary?

~Joe

[HavocTurbo]

Not really necessary on most of the bike.... but good isurance if you don't plan on tearing it apart to fix things.

MC wants this bike to run forever. I'd still cryo everything I can just for the extra added insurance. Especially if it's nowhere near the cost of heat treating.

[traveler]

Oh yeah, I'm with ya on that....always good to overbuild stuff!

This is bike is a culmination of years of experience and taking one's time.

Super nice CB.

~Joe

[MCRider]

My guess would be HAVY wear items.  You mentioned the sprocket....that would definitely be one of them.  Hard anodized sprockets is a good way to go.  I agree on those shifting forks, and undercutting and cryo on the tranny gears will buy some insurance.

Nice idea, but if you are not drag racing, and don't have 100 horsepower....is it really necessary?

~Joe

To HT: Sounds like you've got a good contact. The car guys are into it. I didn't have any chrome done, so that new ground. Jeff told me on an oring chain they can do it but they have too take care not to move the chain when its frozen as the Orings may break. Be sure to ask your guy about it.

travelor. "is it really necessary? Ah the $64,000 question. How much of what we do is necessary? They're just big toys after all. Not to be facetious, but within the context of a projects budget, Cryogenics is so cheap and gives bragging rights, so why not?

If someone is complaining about being overbudget, (anyone?) then we can talk necessary or un necesaary. Otherwise, the skies' the limit.  

So many projects here don't get finished, or are heavily delayed (I'm there). We're all just playing games mostly. There are a few riders i guess. I hope to get mine finished and actually take a trip on it and get some timeslips from the local drag strips. Maybe a GPS reading on top speed and a dyno run. But don't hold your breath!    

[traveler]

When you cryo, what does the part surface look like?

[MCRider]

When you cryo, what does the part surface look like?

In most cases there has been no change. The kick start shafts looked really cool after shot peening, but the Cryo made them look like a bad case of sxcema. But no one sees the KS shafts buried in the engine. Same with the rear drive sprockets (used) I did. The new drive sprockets I had done had no visible change.

My polished lower fork legs I was worried about, but they came back no change.