Author Topic: Phaedrus: CB750 RestoMod - Update: 09/23/21 w/ new video  (Read 869124 times)

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Offline Terry in Australia

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Re: Phaedrus II: CB750 "Super Standard" - Update 4/18/10- w/ new pics
« Reply #1175 on: April 19, 2010, 05:16:21 AM »
G'Day Ron, your bike is looking great mate, well done! On the subject of rim sizes, I just bought this project bike, built by Ken Piper, now a mechanical engineering lecturer at the Defence Academy in Canberra, but an old race bike builder from "back in the day" who built the 1987 Arai 500 winning Yamaha FZR750, and an FZR1000 for the 1988 Suzuka 800 race in Japan.

He fitted wide 18 inch alloy rimmed wheels front and rear (tires aren't a problem, it runs Bridgestone B45's fore and aft) and with the FZR1000 forks and brakes mated to custom triples, this thing handles like no CB750 I've ever ridden. If I could close my eyes and block my ears from the wail of that genuine Yoshimura 4 into 1, I could convince myself that I was on a 1970's Ducati or Laverda!

Now wheels size is probably more personal preference than logical choice, but I personally believe that a 17 inch rimmed (front and rear) CB750 or Z1, Suzuki GS etc doesn't look right, because there's too much air under the fenders, and not enough between the ground and the engine cases, so I'm glad you went with the 18 inch front. The other problem is that our engines are much wider and sit lower than the modern bikes, so invariably, with little wheels, you can almost use your alternator cover for a side stand.

Sure, the K7/K8 ran a 17 inch rear wheel, but it should also be taken into consideration that they also ran a much higher profile tire than what is available nowadays, so in fact their 17 inch wheels fitted with the rubber they were using at the time had about the same outer diameter as a standard 18 inch rear wheel on the CB750 K0-K6. Regardless, rims/tires are really a personal choice, and one benefit of running smaller dia wheels is the physical lowering of the bike's height, which suits those of us with short legs, at the expense of some cornering clearance. Cheers, Terry. ;D 
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Offline MCRider

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Re: Phaedrus II: CB750 "Super Standard" - Update 4/18/10- w/ new pics
« Reply #1176 on: April 19, 2010, 05:56:53 AM »
YEs that's what I'm expecting with the front. A nice improvement. The 110/70-17 on the front made it look like a praying mantis, so the 110/80-17 with a nice fender should do nicely.

Cool project bike!

You're right on the rear, I have a /70 on there now and the air space is visible, but not too bad.

As to ground clearance, a little less when verticle should be comfortable as you say. Easier for toe tapping at a stop light. With the wider tires, I may not lose as much in the turns as one may think. I'll report back on that, but I'm not planning on pushing it so hard as the good ole days either.   ;D
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Re: Phaedrus II: CB750 "Super Standard" - Update 4/18/10- w/ new pics
« Reply #1177 on: April 19, 2010, 06:03:41 AM »
definitely keep me posted on how the bike feels once you get her out on the road, I plan on going the same route. Also, if you wouldnt mind taking some good shots of how the bike sits with the 18 and 17 I would greatly appreciate it. I was originally thinking about going with 17's but have reconsidered for the same reasons cosmetic reasons that you have stated. I am doing a 1000rr frontend swap and building my own swingarm so I can run a 120/70R18 in the front and a 180/55R17 in the rear. I couldnt find any good sticky tires in these sizes for 19 and 18 inch rims so i figure If i just downsize both by 1 inch i should be able to keep the same proportions, but be able to find better tires.
Don't wait for my report, I may be a while. I'd go ahead with your plans if you're making headway. Shold handle great. Weld some gussets in the frame, that much tire will really crank it.
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Ron
1988 NT650 HawkGT;  1978 CB400 Hawk;  1975 CB750F -Free Bird; 1968 CB77 Super Hawk -Ticker;  Phaedrus 1972 CB750K2- Build Thread
"Sometimes the light's all shining on me, other times I can barely see, lately it appears to me, what a long, strange trip its been."

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Re: Phaedrus II: CB750 "Super Standard" - Update 4/11/10- w/ new pics
« Reply #1178 on: April 19, 2010, 06:14:49 AM »
But here's the bummer. Somewhere in the last 10 years, i have mixed up some parts. I originally had my homemade dual disc setup on this bike for many years. Everything fit fine. The 2nd side needed the spacers we all know about, but no problem there. But now, the 2nd disc and bracket don't come near lining up. About 11mm off.
SNIP
Could be the fork legs, more likely the hub is a different one. Anyway, I'll get Saldana to machine the darn thing until it lines up. It'll cost a few bucks, but i ain't turning back now.


Hmmm...curious...I know that mine had (and soon will be again) a lot less clearance between the pivot and the fork, like it was right up against the fork leg. That would take some of the distance out. Also, the angle between the floating arm and the disc has always been steeper on the right side setups. That's OK: it just wears the pucks at a little more of an angle.

Do you, by chance, have the later model Tee-style hangers available? They will fit the same floating arms, are smaller, and need no adapting at all to bolt onto the earlier forks. (Look in the Book at the Front Wheel and Brake section for details.)
Thanks HM. I'll review that and keep an eye out for the parts, but I hope to move faster than that. It appears the right side (the original left side) fits perfectly. The 2nd disc side can be made to fit by turning down the mounting stud on the leg, buzzing the pivot area, and turning down the hub. I'm no machinist so I hope that's possible. And can be done without de lacing the wheel. But whatever it takes...
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Ron
1988 NT650 HawkGT;  1978 CB400 Hawk;  1975 CB750F -Free Bird; 1968 CB77 Super Hawk -Ticker;  Phaedrus 1972 CB750K2- Build Thread
"Sometimes the light's all shining on me, other times I can barely see, lately it appears to me, what a long, strange trip its been."

Offline J.Webster Designs

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Re: Phaedrus II: CB750 "Super Standard" - Update 4/18/10- w/ new pics
« Reply #1179 on: April 19, 2010, 11:58:03 AM »
definitely keep me posted on how the bike feels once you get her out on the road, I plan on going the same route. Also, if you wouldnt mind taking some good shots of how the bike sits with the 18 and 17 I would greatly appreciate it. I was originally thinking about going with 17's but have reconsidered for the same reasons cosmetic reasons that you have stated. I am doing a 1000rr frontend swap and building my own swingarm so I can run a 120/70R18 in the front and a 180/55R17 in the rear. I couldnt find any good sticky tires in these sizes for 19 and 18 inch rims so i figure If i just downsize both by 1 inch i should be able to keep the same proportions, but be able to find better tires.
Don't wait for my report, I may be a while. I'd go ahead with your plans if you're making headway. Shold handle great. Weld some gussets in the frame, that much tire will really crank it.


Thanks for the reminder! it will be a while before I have all the parts (and space) i need to build the bike. I am not worrying about the frame as much as I plan on making a frame for the bike. I am planning on designing the frame and testing it in solidworks with a finite analysis program. I should be able to see where the weak spots are on the frame and fix those weak spots in the program before it hits the road.

I will be addressing all of the motor mount points that I have learned from your build up as well. (i.e. boring out the long lower bolt and making a thicker stainless bolt. I am also beginning to wonder about boring out the top long bolt holes as well to fit a larger diameter bolt.
« Last Edit: April 19, 2010, 12:01:36 PM by midnight08 »
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Offline wannabridin

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Re: Phaedrus II: CB750 "Super Standard" - Update 4/18/10- w/ new pics
« Reply #1180 on: April 22, 2010, 06:17:05 AM »
man Ron, i should of listened to you more seriously when i started my build thread...  the funds aren't quite as fast as i thought, and time just isn't quite there as much as i'd hoped.  i just need to lock myself in a garage for a week with a fat wad of cash and access to this site!!  looks like that won't be happening for some time though   :'( :'(  yours sure is looking good!!!
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Offline MCRider

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Re: Phaedrus II: CB750 "Super Standard" - Update 4/18/10- w/ new pics
« Reply #1181 on: April 22, 2010, 06:27:32 AM »
man Ron, i should of listened to you more seriously when i started my build thread...  the funds aren't quite as fast as i thought, and time just isn't quite there as much as i'd hoped.  i just need to lock myself in a garage for a week with a fat wad of cash and access to this site!!  looks like that won't be happening for some time though   :'( :'(  yours sure is looking good!!!
Keeble's 3 Laws of Life (John Keeble was a man I used to work for). 1. Things always take longer than you planned. 2. Things always cost more than you planned. (Those are the two we are are pining here, but #3 is probably the most important.) 3. Nothing is ever as good or as bad as it seems at the time.

I'll be stealing hours during the week to speed up my project. Taking some time off work today to get the tire mounted.  My shop buddy said he'd be willing to do some all day Saturdays. That'll help.

Stay committed, never let more than a few days go by without doing something.
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Ron
1988 NT650 HawkGT;  1978 CB400 Hawk;  1975 CB750F -Free Bird; 1968 CB77 Super Hawk -Ticker;  Phaedrus 1972 CB750K2- Build Thread
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Offline wannabridin

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Re: Phaedrus II: CB750 "Super Standard" - Update 4/18/10- w/ new pics
« Reply #1182 on: April 22, 2010, 07:41:19 AM »
this is what i try to do!!  even if it's something small, it's all going towards the same goal, and that's what counts!!! 
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Re: Phaedrus II: CB750 "Super Standard" - Update 4/18/10- w/ new pics
« Reply #1183 on: April 23, 2010, 06:48:48 PM »
Got my front tire mounted today. 110/80-18. That's about midway between the 110/70-17 I tried for and the 110/90-19 it had on it. A good compromise in looks and performance i think. Its a BT45, a bit milder tread pattern than the IRC Road Winner rim protector on the rear, but its hard to see both tires at once. The front should outlast the rear by a factor of 2, so when the IRC gives up I'll get a BT45 for the rear. That'll give me some incentive to ride the thing.


Profile. The bottom of the tire is about 4" off the ground, keep in mind.

The original 19"/90 would have the top of the tire a good 1/2" above the black rubber dust sliders. And it was a heavy dude. The 18" /80 is below the black sliders.

This is as far as I can squeeze the fender into place. It will have the sides cut off of it but this gives an idea of the look if it were slid back several more inches.

With the sides cut off the fender, it will hang from a fork brace arching over the tire.

With the sides cut off it will be a wide "needle" style.

Sunday, we'll mock the brakes up and see what needs to be done there. This is feeling like progress. Maybe not, but it feels good.

PS: Got another order in from Yamiya. SS Bleeder valve, SS calpier bolts, caliper/piston seals, brake light switch. Ordered them Monday night, got them, from Japan mind you, Thursday afternoon!

« Last Edit: April 25, 2010, 02:57:50 PM by MCRider »
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1988 NT650 HawkGT;  1978 CB400 Hawk;  1975 CB750F -Free Bird; 1968 CB77 Super Hawk -Ticker;  Phaedrus 1972 CB750K2- Build Thread
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Offline Zaipai

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Re: Phaedrus II: CB750 "Super Standard" - Update 4/23/10- w/ new pics
« Reply #1184 on: April 23, 2010, 08:03:32 PM »
Wow MC its looking awesome, you really are paying attention to the details and the little things.. Its awesome..

Great job!!!

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Offline MCRider

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Re: Phaedrus II: CB750 "Super Standard" - Update 4/23/10- w/ new pics
« Reply #1185 on: April 25, 2010, 09:31:10 AM »
Thanks Zaipai. Next update follows:
So I got some parts from Yamiya: SS Bleeder v original:

SS Caliper bolts vs original

We trimmed off all the unecessary bits from the brake brackets (fender mounts mostly)

Remounted the discs. One of the problems can be the speedo drive clips the bolts/nuts. I had ordered some thin 8mm nuts from Metric Specialties years ago and use them here. Other fixes is to grind down the bolts/nuts, or grind the speedo drive itself.

Reinstalled wheel w/ brakes.

AS mentioned last week, for some unknown reason, the second bracket doesn't line up over the disc. Before stripping this bike, the dual disc setup was perfectly aligned and worked fine. Somewhere in the last 10 years, I've mixed some parts.

So I'll leave it to the machinists that are making my forkbrace/fender mount. They can do a combination of things, mill the lug on the fork leg, mill the hub, even mill the caliper on one side and space the other.

Anything they do will be a quicker fix than trying to figure what I mixed up.
Finally, some inspirational shots: what it will look like to ride it.


Got some domestic chores, hope to get back on it a few more hours tonite.
Ride Safe:
Ron
1988 NT650 HawkGT;  1978 CB400 Hawk;  1975 CB750F -Free Bird; 1968 CB77 Super Hawk -Ticker;  Phaedrus 1972 CB750K2- Build Thread
"Sometimes the light's all shining on me, other times I can barely see, lately it appears to me, what a long, strange trip its been."

Offline Zaipai

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Re: Phaedrus II: CB750 "Super Standard" - Update 4/25/10- w/ new pics
« Reply #1186 on: April 25, 2010, 10:02:21 AM »
Dang nice.. Love the dual discs.. Want to put them on my ride later...

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Offline J.Webster Designs

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Re: Phaedrus II: CB750 "Super Standard" - Update 4/25/10- w/ new pics
« Reply #1187 on: April 25, 2010, 01:02:04 PM »
wait... im confused.... you are using a 17 in the front again? i thought you were using an 18 front.
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Offline MCRider

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Re: Phaedrus II: CB750 "Super Standard" - Update 4/25/10- w/ new pics
« Reply #1188 on: April 25, 2010, 02:03:47 PM »
wait... im confused.... you are using a 17 in the front again? i thought you were using an 18 front.
No I switched to the 2.15x18, And that's what it is. Why'd you think it was back to 17? Curious.
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Re: Phaedrus II: CB750 "Super Standard" - Update 4/25/10- w/ new pics
« Reply #1189 on: April 25, 2010, 02:50:24 PM »
Quote
Got my front tire mounted today. 110/80-17. That's about midway between the 110/70-17

I think this statement is what may have thrown him..

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Re: Phaedrus II: CB750 "Super Standard" - Update 4/25/10- w/ new pics
« Reply #1190 on: April 25, 2010, 02:58:37 PM »
Quote
Got my front tire mounted today. 110/80-17. That's about midway between the 110/70-17

I think this statement is what may have thrown him..

.: Scott :.
Oops I see, that was a mistake and I have edited it to 110/80-18. Thanks.
Ride Safe:
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1988 NT650 HawkGT;  1978 CB400 Hawk;  1975 CB750F -Free Bird; 1968 CB77 Super Hawk -Ticker;  Phaedrus 1972 CB750K2- Build Thread
"Sometimes the light's all shining on me, other times I can barely see, lately it appears to me, what a long, strange trip its been."

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Re: Phaedrus II: CB750 "Super Standard" - Update 4/25/10- w/ new pics
« Reply #1191 on: April 25, 2010, 03:31:49 PM »
Phhhffft that's nothing you should see the ones I make that no one noticed and I was able to edit..  ;D

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Offline Terry in Australia

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Re: Phaedrus II: CB750 "Super Standard" - Update 4/25/10- w/ new pics
« Reply #1192 on: April 26, 2010, 03:46:01 AM »
Hey Ron, did I miss something here? You're running a K1 speedo and a K2 tach? What are you gonna do for idiot lights like blinkers and neutral lights? Cheers, Terry. ;D
I was feeling sorry for myself because I couldn't afford new bike boots, until I met a man with no legs.

So I said, "Hey mate, you haven't got any bike boots you don't need, do you?"

"Crazy is a very misunderstood term, it's a fine line that some of us can lean over and still keep our balance" (thanks RB550Four)

Offline MCRider

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Re: Phaedrus II: CB750 "Super Standard" - Update 4/25/10- w/ new pics
« Reply #1193 on: April 26, 2010, 05:39:14 AM »
Hey Ron, did I miss something here? You're running a K1 speedo and a K2 tach? What are you gonna do for idiot lights like blinkers and neutral lights? Cheers, Terry. ;D
The K2 tach is the original one, but is just for a placeholder here. I've been lucky enough that a good buddy of mine from years ago, has a K1 tach for me. (This bit of info is buried in an update several pages back).

He was the parts manager at a shop where I was a parts flunkie, I at 17 and he at 24. Now he's 64 and in poor health. We've kept in touch over the years. When he found out what I was working on he said, "I have a brand new K1 tach in the box, yours for the getting."!!

So I hope to get over to his place in the next week or two and pick it up. I've heard of NOS K1 tachs going for upwards of $400. Once I knew I had that, I looked on ebay for a few weeks and found the K1 speedo. The face is in bad shape, but only 9900 miles on the clock. I want to get it recalibrated to my smaller wheel, a MC speedo shop in San Diego said they could, and I'll get a new face then.

In his travels he was parts manager at a Suzuki shop that Suzuki forced out of business in a franchise war back in the 70s. They paid the owner off and told him to keep everything but vacate the premises. he had a pickup load of new parts to go to the dump. My buddy said take them to his house instead and the owner said OK.

So now my buddy has a pick up load of new Suzuki parts in his garage for the last 35 years. He's not computer literate. I told him we could sell them on eBay if he likes. We're still working on those details. We'll need to get the highest price for everything, he needs the $$, could be a dud, could be interesting.
« Last Edit: April 26, 2010, 05:50:57 AM by MCRider »
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Re: Phaedrus II: CB750 "Super Standard" - Update 4/25/10- w/ new pics
« Reply #1194 on: April 28, 2010, 06:14:58 AM »
thanks for the reassurance, I saw the 17 size that you listed and it threw me for a loop.
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Re: Phaedrus II: CB750 "Super Standard" - Update 4/25/10- w/ new pics
« Reply #1195 on: April 28, 2010, 06:21:56 PM »
thanks for the reassurance, I saw the 17 size that you listed and it threw me for a loop.

Yeah, as Terry mentioned a page or so back, I think the 18" front is the way to go.

Toss up on 17 or 18 rear. Mines 3.5 x 17.
Ride Safe:
Ron
1988 NT650 HawkGT;  1978 CB400 Hawk;  1975 CB750F -Free Bird; 1968 CB77 Super Hawk -Ticker;  Phaedrus 1972 CB750K2- Build Thread
"Sometimes the light's all shining on me, other times I can barely see, lately it appears to me, what a long, strange trip its been."

Offline Terry in Australia

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Re: Phaedrus II: CB750 "Super Standard" - Update 4/25/10- w/ new pics
« Reply #1196 on: April 29, 2010, 03:13:01 AM »

So now my buddy has a pick up load of new Suzuki parts in his garage for the last 35 years. He's not computer literate. I told him we could sell them on eBay if he likes. We're still working on those details. We'll need to get the highest price for everything, he needs the $$, could be a dud, could be interesting.

Oh, OK mate, no worries. Let me know if your mate has any Suzuki RL250, GS1000 or GT750 parts, I've got an original RL250, 3 GS1000's and I'm hankering for a GT750, so I'd be interested in seeing what he's got! Cheers, Terry. ;D
I was feeling sorry for myself because I couldn't afford new bike boots, until I met a man with no legs.

So I said, "Hey mate, you haven't got any bike boots you don't need, do you?"

"Crazy is a very misunderstood term, it's a fine line that some of us can lean over and still keep our balance" (thanks RB550Four)

Offline MCRider

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Re: Phaedrus II: CB750 "Super Standard" - Update 4/25/10- w/ new pics
« Reply #1197 on: April 29, 2010, 05:34:04 AM »

So now my buddy has a pick up load of new Suzuki parts in his garage for the last 35 years. He's not computer literate. I told him we could sell them on eBay if he likes. We're still working on those details. We'll need to get the highest price for everything, he needs the $$, could be a dud, could be interesting.

Oh, OK mate, no worries. Let me know if your mate has any Suzuki RL250, GS1000 or GT750 parts, I've got an original RL250, 3 GS1000's and I'm hankering for a GT750, so I'd be interested in seeing what he's got! Cheers, Terry. ;D
I'm supposed to go Saturday to pick up the tach. We'll need to do an internet search on the part numbers to identify them. And they will all go ebay as he needs the best price. It may be a dud and he may not even want to do it, people can get funny about stashes. But last I spoke to him he did.
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Ron
1988 NT650 HawkGT;  1978 CB400 Hawk;  1975 CB750F -Free Bird; 1968 CB77 Super Hawk -Ticker;  Phaedrus 1972 CB750K2- Build Thread
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Re: Phaedrus II: CB750 "Super Standard" - Update 4/25/10- w/ new pics
« Reply #1198 on: May 01, 2010, 11:13:37 AM »
Success! So often these love connections don't work out. I got the brand new NOS K1 tach!


Absolutley beautiful.

What didn't work out is my buddy balked at putting his stash of NOS Suzuki parts on eBay. Lots of hemming and hawing, finally said, "well they don't eat anything". His choice I would've done the work. But people can get funny about their hoards, I've seen it before.

Does a 3 hour round trip count towards this week's project time?   :D

Other goodies: All original, not restored 1970 T120 w/ 7700mi:


Covered by old sheets in his laundry room, ran last year. For those Triumph afficionados, he has the original pipes, these are from the earlier models. Under tank reflectors too.
1968 CL77 with steel rims with shoulders:


Needs to have the seat restored, but he doesn't want to let the seat pan out of his sight.


I should be able to get 5 more hours in tomorrow. For now, gotta work on my Ma's garden tractor. Bye!
« Last Edit: May 01, 2010, 11:16:19 AM by MCRider »
Ride Safe:
Ron
1988 NT650 HawkGT;  1978 CB400 Hawk;  1975 CB750F -Free Bird; 1968 CB77 Super Hawk -Ticker;  Phaedrus 1972 CB750K2- Build Thread
"Sometimes the light's all shining on me, other times I can barely see, lately it appears to me, what a long, strange trip its been."

Offline HavocTurbo

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Re: Phaedrus II: CB750 "Super Standard" - Update 4/25/10- w/ new pics
« Reply #1199 on: May 01, 2010, 11:36:18 AM »
Wow that clock looks good!!!

Be a very nice addition to the scoot for sure!

Did you get the 5 flashers I sent? I know for sure I got 3 of them back. lol.

'48 HD Panhead - Exxon Valdez
'78 CB550K - Fokker CB.3
'78 Honda CB750K - Mavrik
'80 Yamaha XS850G - Kanibalistik
09 XL883L - No Name