Topic: Phaedrus: CB750 RestoMod - Update: 09/23/21 w/ new video

[Zaipai]

On to my engine. Many of you may have forgotten that i actually have an engine for this project. Its been under this sheet since we got stalled out on primary chains many weeks ago.

We did not forget, we just know you will have it assembled in no time at all. We have faith in your wrenching skills..

.: Scott :.

[Terry in Australia]

Looking good Ron, although I wish you could move a tad faster mate, I know that Rome wasn't built in a day, but the Colosseum went together quicker than your bloody bike!

Hey have you trial fitted the odd float bowl with your smoothbore floats installed? I have a vague memory of a problem I had with Mikuni smoothbore floats, but I can't remember if it was with the old brass ones in a 29mm set, or the plastic ones in a set of 33's that I had on my drag bike. Jeff Saunders at Z1 Enterprises will probably be able to supply you with the correct bowl, but maybe you should buy two just to be safe. Cheers, Terry.    

[MCRider]

Looking good Ron, although I wish you could move a tad faster mate, I know that Rome wasn't built in a day, but the Colosseum went together quicker than your bloody bike!

Hey have you trial fitted the odd float bowl with your smoothbore floats installed? I have a vague memory of a problem I had with Mikuni smoothbore floats, but I can't remember if it was with the old brass ones in a 29mm set, or the plastic ones in a set of 33's that I had on my drag bike. Jeff Saunders at Z1 Enterprises will probably be able to supply you with the correct bowl, but maybe you should buy two just to be safe. Cheers, Terry.    

I simply can't believe how long its been. But I'm covering things i never anticipated, like having to redo the front wheel, and having to replace the gas tank after spending time modding the old one. But Memorial Day is still doable.

Yes the replacement float bowl went on the carbs no problem and no obvious conflicts. Should be OK, carbs are buttoned up and ready to install.

[MCRider]

In our defense (for the delayed completion) me and my build buddy Bruce have put in time every week, without missing but a very few for nearly 2.25 years. 3 hours shop time each once a week, and then 3 to 5 hours for me computer time chasing parts, selling and buying, studying up, etc. But its been Bruce's "dedication gene" that's kept us on track. I know as ADHD as I am I couldn't have kept that up.

Thanks for your confidence ZaiPai: Sometimes I wonder. I follow all the build threads looking for tips. I've noticed a few where the startup didn't go smoothly, something leaked or rattled or smoked or choked and had to be redone...and that's my fear. I'll get it buttoned up and it won't work right.

I've had a couple like that. But I try to dwell on the ones that came out all right on the first go. Most recently was my HawkGT. Bent a valve and it had to come apart. Had a thin line valve job done, bored it to first competitve overbore (647cc to 663cc) with some higher compression pistons, opened up the airbox and the muffler. It started up on first try, no leaks and runs sweet.

So here's hopin. Gotta get to ordering some parts.   

[mystic_1]

...and that's my fear. I'll get it buttoned up and it won't work right.

Birth pains are to be expected and not something to fear, imho.  In fact I'm usually surprised and suspicious if something DOESN'T go wrong.  That said, based on your dedication to detail I'm sure the most egregious of problems will be avoided.



mystic_1

[andy750]

...and that's my fear. I'll get it buttoned up and it won't work right.

Birth pains are to be expected and not something to fear, imho.  In fact I'm usually surprised and suspicious if something DOESN'T go wrong.  That said, based on your dedication to detail I'm sure the most egregious of problems will be avoided.
mystic_1

I can tell you all about start up failures  But...in the end it all works out and I am hoping you avoid the start-up failure stage and go straight to it all works out. I always enjoy reading this thread. Great work Ron.

good luck
Andy

[Really?]

I simply can't believe how long its been. But I'm covering things i never anticipated, like having to redo the front wheel, and having to replace the gas tank after spending time modding the old one.

In a way I know what you mean.  I didn't expect to line momma's tank and I did it twice...cleaned the carbs twice...file down the casting on the forks....polishing the forks and upper tree....da da da.... and still going no where near the detail you have.

If you run into it again, I am expecting it be minor. 

I will say, with the level of detail, you had better ride this bike into the ground even if it takes you 30+ more years to do!

Love this thread.  Always waiting to see the date on the title to change with new pics!  Yes, I drop in on this build the most.

[MCRider]

"I will say, with the level of detail, you had better ride this bike into the ground even if it takes you 30+ more years to do!"

That's the plan! 

[Terry in Australia]

In a way I know what you mean.  I didn't expect to line momma's tank and I did it twice...

I've just learned your pain mate, my K2 build is almost done now, so last night after work I filled the POR-15'd tank only to discover that there are still 2 pin hole leaks where I welded the seams back together after repairing the tank from the inside. Oh well, it didn't hurt my new candy paint, and if I'm careful with the POR-15 I won't lose anything but the time it takes to set. Cheers, Terry.

[Zaipai]

Thanks for your confidence ZaiPai: Sometimes I wonder. I follow all the build threads looking for tips. I've noticed a few where the startup didn't go smoothly, something leaked or rattled or smoked or choked and had to be redone...and that's my fear. I'll get it buttoned up and it won't work right.

I know what you mean, I was the same way with mine. I had not worked on a bike in many years and this one was just short of a basket case when I got it. I have not done the in depth engine rebuild that you are doing. However it was enough that I was not sure it would start. Some times faith is really the best thing to ward off startup woes.

I believe this build will be great when its done and she will fire right up!

.: Scott :.

[MCRider]

Thanks again for you confidence and encouragement. As I tell others, and a harkening back to the CSN&Y song, we will "carry on".

Today's session was productive. Some background. We got stalled last week on a missing ORing for the front oil passsage in the lower crankcases. Thinking that i had a good enough stash of gaskets that I would just buy Orings as I needed them. Upon pricing out the Orings, though, it seems I can get a whole gasket set for that price. Upon inventorying my gaskets i see I am short the base gasket, so that along with the Orings pushed me over and I ordered a full set from CycleX, he claims his are the best. So I'll have a lot of extras. Didn't order it till ThursdayAM so no good for today.

Instead of the motor, we worked on the brake lines. At first I thought I'd need new ones. Dragging out the old ones, we could see that maybe they could be reused. Bruce put the brass wire brush on the drill and started brushing all the old parts and they really came back to life.





The routing worked out very clean. Down thru the space below the tach, out from the T to the left caliper straight in, straight out of that one over the fender straight in to the rt caliper which has the bleeder.

No double ups. I like having only one line dropping down, less to see.

I'd like the line on the left to be straighter still. I'll need a curved banjo and shorten the line a bit. But what we have is functional and mods can wait.
On the the CS bearing holder. After asking you all last week for help in removing the bearing, I was instructed to freeze it, then heat it and the bearing falls out. Sure enough. Froze it overnight. Heated it for 2 minutes with heat gun, gently tapped it once with hammer and it fell out!



Installed new "C3" bearing, slightly more clearance for use in applications where the outer race is compressed, gives less rolling resistance.
Tip of the week: use small pill size ziplocks for keeping hardware bits separate from its related pieces in a bigger zip lock bag.

So we pulled the headlight and stuffed all the wires in the shell, ready for wiring.
Question, I have these LED turn signals. They have tiny gauge wire. How should I connect them into the larger gauge harness. I can strip both and connect with a wire nut, but is there a more elegant way? Hate cuttin up the brand new harness.

During the week I sent the sidecover back to Joe (frankenstuf) to have it relieved for the gusset. He did a great job and turned it right around. But my mark was not good and it needs more clearance.

[MCRider]

Looking at the picture of the 2 wires, I had an idea. Make some short leads from scraps of the old harness, to plug into the female of the new harness, leaving a few inches, strip that and wire nut it to the LED leads.

[Terry in Australia]

Can you solder it rather than wire nut it Ron? On my K2 build I had to replace a few connectors because they'd been cut, or fell apart from heat and old age, and so I just cannibalised another harness, and with some solder and heat shrink, I know those connections will last as long as the rest of the harness. Cheers, Terry.

[MCRider]

Can you solder it rather than wire nut it Ron? On my K2 build I had to replace a few connectors because they'd been cut, or fell apart from heat and old age, and so I just cannibalised another harness, and with some solder and heat shrink, I know those connections will last as long as the rest of the harness. Cheers, Terry.

That is the more "elegant" solution. I'm not to sure of my soldering skills, but I do have a nice gun and shrinktube, so I ought to screw up the courage and do it that way.

I'm going to give the manufacturers of the lights a ping as well. They have to have crossed this bridge before.

[Terry in Australia]

Yeah, don't be worried about your soldering skills mate, I don't have any skills at all, I just basically bare both wires, twist them together, sit the bared "Knot" on the tip of my soldering iron and using thin flux cored solder, I just "sweat" the solder into the joint. Easy to do, and it looks good once done. I hate using insulation tape, so the heatshrink thing is the best way to finish the job. Cheers, Terry.

[MCRider]

I'll give it a try.

[MCRider]

Got my gasket set from CycleX back on Monday, ordered Thursday afternoon. Seems to include everything incl valve stem seals and the rubber biscuits under the cam blocks. He even included 6 additional ORings in a separate zip-lock bag, guess I'll figure out where they go.   

[knowsnothing]

He even included 6 additional ORings in a separate zip-lock bag, guess I'll figure out where they go.  

When you do, let me know.  They have been sitting on my bench for months    

ps - keep up the great work.  I have stealthly been following your thread and the bike looks more amazing every time. 

[MCRider]

He even included 6 additional ORings in a separate zip-lock bag, guess I'll figure out where they go.  

When you do, let me know.  They have been sitting on my bench for months    

ps - keep up the great work.  I have stealthly been following your thread and the bike looks more amazing every time. 

i was impressed with the gasket set. They obviously spent some time with their sub-contractor to fill it out completely. It say Made in Taiwan, but its in their "Cycle-X Brand Products" card/shrink wrap and nicely priced around $70 incl S&H. I'll let everyone know what i use and don't use. I'll be selling the extras.

Thanks for the good words. Its been a project that grew beyond the original expectations, except that I've always wanted it to be really something at the end, and I think we'll accomplish that.

[Terry in Australia]

Got my gasket set from CycleX back on Monday, ordered Thursday afternoon. Seems to include everything incl valve stem seals and the rubber biscuits under the cam blocks. He even included 6 additional ORings in a separate zip-lock bag, guess I'll figure out where they go.   

Are they 15mm x 2.5mm Ron? If so, 3 go in the oil pump where it mounts to the engine, 2 go on the oil tank hose joints (engine end) and I've forgotten where the last one goes. (sorry) None of the gasket sets I've bought have these, and it's a pain in the butt trying to find some on a weekend, so if CycleX is supplying them, more power to them!

[MCRider]

Got my gasket set from CycleX back on Monday, ordered Thursday afternoon. Seems to include everything incl valve stem seals and the rubber biscuits under the cam blocks. He even included 6 additional ORings in a separate zip-lock bag, guess I'll figure out where they go.   

Are they 15mm x 2.5mm Ron? If so, 3 go in the oil pump where it mounts to the engine, 2 go on the oil tank hose joints (engine end) and I've forgotten where the last one goes. (sorry) None of the gasket sets I've bought have these, and it's a pain in the butt trying to find some on a weekend, so if CycleX is supplying them, more power to them!

Of the 6, there is one large one, probably for the front center crankcase dowel, 3 medium (15mm ID) probably for the oil pump and 2 smaller unidentified at this point. Along with the bunch that are in the gasket set itself, I expect I'll have what i need.

The real point I'm making is that someone had a personal hand in trying to get me what i need, and that impreseed me. If I'm still missing one/some I'll get them by the piece.

[MCRider]

Cold out today, getting the tailend of that storm that hit Mnpls StPaul. Not so much accumulation but cold and blowing. 20 outside, 55 F in the shop. For those of you lacking heat in your shop, a tip. Get one of those shop light stands that has 2 500w bulbs in it. You need the light and they put out a lot of heat as well.

I wanted to do some sodablasting on the shift drum and forks, but didn't get it done. So no engine work. But on the first break in the weather I'll blast those parts and we can button up the bottom end. We are leaning towards putting the bottom end in the frame sans cylinder/head. Its been a long time since I've wrestled one of those engines around, and even though there are 2 of us, I think it will be easier to install the top end in the frame. But will check our deck and valve clearances on the bench in a dry mockup.

There's been a few things I've read about doing and never tried. Growing up in Honda shops, we were always told the instruments were unserviceable. It wasn't uncommon for CB750 instruments to get moisture inside and mess up the faces in the first year of life and we would warranty them often. Imagine my surprise when I first learned some years ago that people were cracking them and replacing the faces. I think I first heard of it on Carpy's site, and since I've read everything I could and thought it was magic. So today, I cracked into a used K2 gauge, using the paint can opener method. I won't repeat much here as its been covered so well by so many. I can say that cutting the ring and JB Welding it back together never appealed to me. So the paint can lid opener method really appealed.
So after taking off the obvious, start here:

Get aggressive with the can opener, progress up to a screwdriver:Then move up to a screwdriver

Then the ring will pull away

With the ring off, the black housing just falls off. Then pry the needle off with a kitchen fork, using the head of the faceplate screw to pry on

And success!

While i was doing this (took me 2 hours. Way too long, but i was really sqeamish about damaging the ring. Now that i know how, its probably more like a 20 mintue job.) Bruce was workiong on the sidecover. Bot from Joe Frankenstuff, they really fit good. But it hits my gusset, special case. I had Joe take some material off for me, but it wasn't enough. So he told me how to do it and using a nail file the material came off readily. Its very soft and thick and workable.
No fit:

Business card fit (Furious George's card. May be my painter)

Final clearance, can't tell it's been worked on, love this material, much niver than brittle old ABS:

Bruce worked on the emblem pockets. They weren't quite right, and I'm afraid with some thick paint they will scrape upon install. Easy to relieve them though. Hand held Dremel tool bits cut the material easily for a perfect fit.
interference

working

perfect fit

Brake line routing doesn't suit me. The down hose curves back too much. With some compression on the forks, there will be too much free line. I'm going to reroute so the line runs parallel to the over fender line, and curves into the lower triple comfortably.

Drove all over creation (long story) to find out there is an Earl's Performance store on gasoline Alley that has brakeline in DIY pieces. So I'll be heading there one day this week to get what i need.

Now, does anyone want to buy a pretty good shape K2 tach that's been disassembled? I'm going to practice on a few others before i do my final ones.

[Damfino]

Now then, on reassembly, any ideas as to what can be done to seal them better than they were? My gauges have this problem [it's more noticeable in the early spring] and there is usually quite a bit of moisture under the glass.  Also, I keep seeing others talking about this silicone dampening fluid used to keep the needles from jumping, do you have any close up shots of where this fluid is stored Ron?

[MCRider]

Now then, on reassembly, any ideas as to what can be done to seal them better than they were? My gauges have this problem [it's more noticeable in the early spring] and there is usually quite a bit of moisture under the glass.  Also, I keep seeing others talking about this silicone dampening fluid used to keep the needles from jumping, do you have any close up shots of where this fluid is stored Ron?

Well unless you suck the moisture laden air out first, fill it with an inert gas, then seal them, you will always get condensation. So the fix is ventilation, not sealing. OCICBW... But, If you can keep the temp, and the air, on the outside the same as the inside, no condensation. The only "fix" I can think of is keep it out of the weather.    Good question though. My more modern Hawk and FJR have no such problems. Interested in others comments. In my memory the SOHC gauges were the first of all motorcycles to have this problem in a serious way. Maybe its a design flaw. My 68 CB77 (305 SuperHawk) never had face plate problems.

Assuming the new full replacement type face plates I'm looking at will resist cracking and fading regardless of condensation, because of the materials used.

As to the lube, nothing real obvious in the tach. But i wasn't looking for it. I'm in for the evening, but next time I'll look with that in mind.

[Terry in Australia]

Good job Ron, I'll be interested in seeing how that ring goes back on, I have to restore a couple of gauges soon, and I've been putting it off because I'm a little leary of that ring. I wonder if a little pack of silica glued to the inside bottom of the gauges would work to remove any moisture? From memory there is a thin seal between the two case halves of each gauge. Cheers, Terry.