Topic: Phaedrus: CB750 RestoMod - Update: 09/23/21 w/ new video

[Terry in Australia]

Don't feel bad Ron, I only ever read the instructions after I've buggered something up!

[MCRider]

Don't feel bad Ron, I only ever read the instructions after I've buggered something up!

Thanks. Just be glad its not a nuke.    

I was committed to checking the shifting before I put the top end on, so it could have been worse. It could have had the top end on and maybe even been in the frame!

[Retro Rocket]

Thanks. Just be glad its not a nuke.   Grin 

To disarm the nuke, first you must cut the RED, BLUE and GREEN wires................................But before you cut the GREEN.......whats that ticking sound.......

                                 


Mick

[MCRider]

No BOOM, dodged a bullet!  

A little warmer, but the ice is thick, just hoping we get out without any roof damage.

So we mocked up the CS twice more, for sure got it right. Got the Rube Goldberg shift linkage back on. It wouldn't be so hard if it were removed just yesterday, but its been years. HondaMans book helped again. Shifted it thru the gears at least in the half case. HondaMan suggested doing this, will do again once we reinstall the case halves.  A little tip. You can stack all the bits for the end of the shift drum on the screw, then offer the whole mess to the drum with the pins in it.

Just a reminder as we found out, if you glass bead your cases the screw holes on the shifter side of the cases, 4 for the bearing retainer, 2 for the shift linkages may be full of crud, and need cleaning.
Along with new flat head screws for the bearing retainer and shift drum, I got a new positive lead, couldn't put that old nasty one on. May buy a battery this week and see if the electrics power up.

So, still waiting on a new bearing shell for the mains, got the cylinders down. There was another thread going about the sleeve ORings. With the overbored cylinders, the groove to accept the ORing gets smaller and smaller as the sleeve gets bigger. For the 888cc kits, there is a small bit of groove left but its not big enough to accept the ORing.


I know I've run without them before, and others confirmed this in that other thread. So I'm going to look for a smaller ORing, but if I can't find one I'll fly without.

Waiting on the crank shell from Motogrid to once again close up the lower cases. Maybe check all the ring gaps this week.

[Terry in Australia]

Looks good Ron, and I wouldn't be fussed about the sleeve O rings, I forgot, er, I mean I intentionally left out the O rings on one engine I built, and it's still running around without any oil leaks, smoking, etc. I'm sure Honda fitted them for a reason, and it might have just been good luck, but it gave me some confidence that I wouldn't need to strip my cylinders off again to install them. Cheers, Terry.

[MCRider]

Looks good Ron, and I wouldn't be fussed about the sleeve O rings, I forgot, er, I mean I intentionally left out the O rings on one engine I built, and it's still running around without any oil leaks, smoking, etc. I'm sure Honda fitted them for a reason, and it might have just been good luck, but it gave me some confidence that I wouldn't need to strip my cylinders off again to install them. Cheers, Terry.

Thanks Terry. Big Jay just posted this on that other thread about cylinder ORings: "Have never run o'rings in big sleeve motors. The only exception is on our 1000cc block assemblies. When boring for the sleeves, if we break through in to the air passage, then we counter bore the bottom far enough to install to orings with a really tight fit."

That confirms what my memory and experience was, and your experience. So I'm happy to press on without ORings.

[MCRider]

Warm temps the last few days are welcome. But several places around the house still have a solid 7 to 8" of ice. haven't opened one of the back doors in 2 weeks, frozen shut. Luckily the doggie door is stayed free and the dog can get where he needs to go.

So I got the replacement bearing we needed this week. A little acetone and scrubbing and the old elephant snot (Gasgacinch) sealer came off in prep for a fresh coat.


The HD primary chains still delight. From ClassicCycleCity forum members. Here they are in full tension

Now with full slack on top run:

Virtually no difference. And with the beefed up chain tensioner:

Should be a relatively lash free ride.
With all the shift linkage in place, the countershaft bearing holder can be pulled out far enough to just barely clear the other case when installing

Last peak at the APERacing crank and Crower rods before closing up

And finally (we hope) closed for good:

We had a scare that it wouldn't shift thru all the gears. Then realized that the CS wasn't turning. We were turning the mainshaft and the fianl drive, but not the counter. So to make sure I removed the CS bearing holder to aaccess the CS. With it turning it shifted completely and consistently.

Next will be some final prep to get the bottom end in the frame. Gotta mock up the topend first, gap the rings, etc.

[wannabridin]

are those the same primary chains as these??  http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Heavy-Duty-Primary-Chains-Honda-CR750-CB750-SOHC-_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQhashZitem3f07152bdcQQitemZ270701767644QQptZMotorcyclesQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories

man i had no idea their HD chains would be that much!  but such nice quality!  looking good Ron!

[MCRider]

Yup,that's them.

[knowsnothing]

Nice work MC!  You are getting close now 

[wannabridin]

Yup,that's them.

MAN!!  i thought some of those would be nice until i saw that price!  certainly nice pieces from what i've seen and read, wish i could afford a set!!

do you have any info about how you beefed up the primary tensioner?  or is this something pretty general?

[MCRider]

Yup,that's them.

MAN!!  i thought some of those would be nice until i saw that price!  certainly nice pieces from what i've seen and read, wish i could afford a set!!

do you have any info about how you beefed up the primary tensioner?  or is this something pretty general?

I was going to use some slightly used OEM chains that I'd had cryo treated. But I stored them improperly and they rusted up. So in a fit, I bot the HD ones. The price stings at first then it blurs into all the other budget overruns. 

The tensioner trick is buried in the thread somewhere. It was a tip from Voxonda. Essentially a shim is fitted under the spring giving it more preload. I am attempting to point at the shim with a screwdriver in the picture.

[wannabridin]

i saw the pointing, i just wanted to know if you had anymore info on the shim.  i'll shoot Rob a PM and see if he can help chime in some.  hurry up and find more time to work on the bike already!!  damn the ice!!  

*edit* amazing what the search function finds!!  der!!!

Jeez Mystic had to show me up huh?    Actually very nicely done. Here's mine. Plate:

Plate/shim with tensioner flipped over to expose the head of the locating pin. I though I had relieved the shim to clear the pin, but i must have gotten tired of grinding with my dremel and just drilled another hole like Mystic, for the head of the pin to nestle up into.

Installed:


I didn't notice a need to narrow the shim, so now I must go outside and see if my shim will clear the tensioner. I'll report back.

[MCRider]

Good search! Mystics was more nicely done than mine.

[Damfino]

The price stings at first then it blurs into all the other budget overruns. 
 

Did you ever hold political office Ron?   

[MCRider]

The price stings at first then it blurs into all the other budget overruns. 
 

Did you ever hold political office Ron?   

Well in my little corner of the world, I run a benevolent dictatorship. If I want to say more than that, we'll need to take it to the political forum.   

Hey! What happened to the political forum?

[Raef]

The price stings at first then it blurs into all the other budget overruns.  
 

Did you ever hold political office Ron?  

Well in my little corner of the world, I run a benevolent dictatorship. If I want to say more than that, we'll need to take it to the political forum.  

Hey! What happened to the political forum?

In your cornor of the world.. you participate as a "figure head" in a benevolent dictatorship, as outlined by the true emperor of all that matters with in the household.

here is what I read

[Raef]

BTW I cant wait to go for a ride

[MCRider]

BTW I cant wait to go for a ride

Well... there is an element of self-delusionment ...

Yes, the original Phaedrus spent a lot of time in southern Indiana, hope Phaedrus II will also.  We visited that bridge in your avatar several times.

[CBJoe]

Did someone say ride

I hope to get the Triumph prepped and going next weekend!

Joe

[IndyFour]

Did someone say ride

I hope to get the Triumph prepped and going next weekend!

Joe

Hey Joe.  Was out for a ride earlier this week and gave you a "toot" on the air horn as I went down Arlington. 

@Ron - Sure is a pretty engine....can't wait to see her come alive someday soon. 

[Really?]

Hey Ron, can't find my post but DOH ME!  Yea, I did not look at the frame.

[MCRider]

Got to work oon pistons and cylinders this morn. Felt good. Film at 11.

[mystic_1]

Film at 11.

<sets TIVO>


mystic_1

[MCRider]

So we finished up the crankcases, and flipped them over to right side up. For those of you who feel the guilt of projects that have taken forever, note the date on this bag.

I spent about 6 months on it back in 2000, then it sat dormant till June 2008, when buddy Bruce said lets get to work on that pile of dust. And so 2.5 years later we're still at it, bit by bit. Having made a few bolts for the cases and getting it all torqued down, we drug out the cylinders and the old dusty box of Arias Pistons, bot in 2000.

Earlier in this thread we spent a lot of time on pistons, pins, weights, construction etc. Everyone has an opinion on who and what is better. These were sourced for me by a machinist Ron Scrimsa of Racing Engine Service in Alvarado TX
http://www.racingenginesvc.com/  who did the boring and the head porting and valve job, he came highlly recommended but remember this was 12 years ago and for future purposes I'd likely go with those offering services here.  Also i see on his site he lists J&E, Wiseco and CP as current sources. It may have been that only Arias had the 67mm, I don't know. 67mm pistons = 888.9cc. I'd had an 888 kit from Powroll, but come to find they no longer offered it, so the Arias bubbled up. Much better anyway, forged vs cast, lighter, oil grooves down the sides, shorter lighter, pins tapered inside and out. I'm guessing the compression is 10.5 to 1 but I don't know for sure, long time ago remember. But i can't think I'd ask for more on a street bike. See the comparison pictures Arias vs powroll:




So we spent the allotted shop time checking piston to cyl clearances and ring end gaps. The pistons weren't marked for the holes. My memory was that Scrimsa had told me they were all so close they could interchange. Of course some choices were made for us as each piston can only go in 1 of 2 holes, per the valve pockets. So we matched those as close as possible but we were really splitting fractional hairs.

The rings were all 12 to 14thou end gaps with immeasurable changes thru the bore from top to bottom.

Next is to install the pistons on the rods and check deck heights.

I'll get a battery this week and check the electrics as well.

So another issue, ignition switch. Over the years I've ended up with mismatches. I have a T6546 ignition with key, and a T3729 with 1 key. The 2 fork locks I have don't match. Anyone got a fork lock to match either of these numbers, with a key? Let me know.